+dhe Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 A number of people have asked that I make a copy of the disk that came with the ForTI Music Card. Can someone tell me how to turn that in to a disk images, using a Geneve with a Myarc Controller and a TIPI? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) 30 minutes ago, dhe said: A number of people have asked that I make a copy of the disk that came with the ForTI Music Card. Can someone tell me how to turn that in to a disk images, using a Geneve with a Myarc Controller and a TIPI? Thanks! Dan is this a copy protected disk? If so, I don't have a solution as of yet, except maybe a Greaseweazle. But if it's not can't you take and copy the files via copy command to the tipi, then take the files from the tipi and with TIImageTool, copy them to a disk image you create with that tool? If not I can lend you a gotek with a thumb drive that can have an image of the size you need to save the files to, then copy the image to Atariage. Or if you have an HDX you can copy the files to your OC and integrate them to a image with TIImageTool. I'm not familiar enough with Tipi to know if you can download files from the Pi to the PC with putty or something. Edited September 12 by RickyDean added content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FarmerPotato Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 There was a utility once for packaging a whole disk for upload, esp for Forth disks. I found a SCNS>FILE listing here: https://mirrors.nycbug.org/pub/The_Unix_Archive/Unix_Usenet/comp.sources.unix/1985-November/004781.html That will at least extract the source code, to DIS/VAR 80. A little modification would adapt it to write binary to DIS/FIX 128. If you have a physical printer cable, and you can print from Forth (SWTCH does something sensible) you can use TRIADS to print screens (3 per page). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 25 minutes ago, FarmerPotato said: There was a utility once for packaging a whole disk for upload, esp for Forth disks. I found a SCNS>FILE listing here: https://mirrors.nycbug.org/pub/The_Unix_Archive/Unix_Usenet/comp.sources.unix/1985-November/004781.html That will at least extract the source code, to DIS/VAR 80. A little modification would adapt it to write binary to DIS/FIX 128. If you have a physical printer cable, and you can print from Forth (SWTCH does something sensible) you can use TRIADS to print screens (3 per page). Is the ForTI music card a forth disk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 8 minutes ago, RickyDean said: Is the ForTI music card a forth disk? Yes, see picture of diskette in Eye Candy thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) 16 minutes ago, dhe said: Yes, see picture of diskette in Eye Candy thread. Okay, I see it but I didn't see anthing mentioning forth on it, unless that's what the ForTI in the Forti card stands forth, pun intented. I just thought it was the name of the card since I never owned one or built one. I would assume you could sector copy a forth disk to an image, have never tried it. On the pico sidecar you can load an image, even empty and try it, when you get yours built. If not then I could lend you a gotek to try it. Edited September 12 by RickyDean 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 7 hours ago, RickyDean said: On the pico sidecar you can load an image, even empty and try it, when you get yours built. Alas, even that's tricky, to get both the Myarc card and Pico sidecar working with sector level calls at the same time. @jedimatt42 does Force Command allow something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Looking at the "Chariots" ForTI .dsk, it's just a standard floppy. So I would just try copying the files using whatever disk manager you have. I guess, make the TIPI CRU base higher than the Myarc card, then copy all the files from DSK1. to TIPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+9640News Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 DCOPY would package a disk up as a sector by sector image of an entire floppy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 13 minutes ago, 9640News said: 14 minutes ago, 9640News said: DCOPY would package a disk up as a sector by sector image of an entire floppy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 @9640News Winner Winner, I think someone might get a chicken dinner. Where is DCOPY and it's docs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 sitelist.txt on wht says: ./Geneve/9640news/CAT10/DCOPY.ARK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 I just copied the wht downloaded file as "DCOPY" (removed the .ARK extension) onto an emulated DSK1 and I can run it from E/A option 5. I suggest making a sector copy (with disk manager) of the original disk to a real floppy before doing anything else though. Goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway. With DCOPY, it looks like you just type S to save, enter the filename (TIPI.FORTI) and select the source (Read From) drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Ok, it worked for me on the Pico sidecar, making a copy of a sector .dsk file in the TIPI. root directory. The file looks good - it's got all the sectors that are marked as allocated, but doesn't copy in the sectors which are "free" (that's fine, it's just a slightly smaller file for my test case, because the disk wasn't full). Nice. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, JasonACT said: Ok, it worked for me on the Pico sidecar, making a copy of a sector .dsk file in the TIPI. root directory. The file looks good - it's got all the sectors that are marked as allocated, but doesn't copy in the sectors which are "free" (that's fine, it's just a slightly smaller file for my test case, because the disk wasn't full). Nice. That's weird. Not a true 1:1 copy if it doesn't copy all sectors. A proper .DSK image should always contain 360 or 720 or 1440 or 2880 sectors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 If the ForTI disks are the same format as TI Forth disks (4 sectors per screen), you can use fbForth 3.0’s TIF2FBF or TIFVU to copy Forth screens to DF128 blocks files. If you need DV80 files, you can use fbForth 3.0’s BLK>FILE to convert the blocks files created above to DV80 files. ..lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FarmerPotato Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 15 hours ago, JasonACT said: Looking at the "Chariots" ForTI .dsk, it's just a standard floppy. So I would just try copying the files using whatever disk manager you have. I guess, make the TIPI CRU base higher than the Myarc card, then copy all the files from DSK1. to TIPI. TI Forth doesn't use the file system. What you are seeing is the illusion of a catalog, which is necessary for E/A to find DSK1.FORTH. The file SCRNS/SAVE is there to reserve the rest of the disk. If you copy the files with a disk manager, they won't be written to the correct sectors. Then Forth won't run. You have to do a sector copy of the TI Forth disk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, FarmerPotato said: TI Forth doesn't use the file system. What you are seeing is the illusion of a catalog, which is necessary for E/A to find DSK1.FORTH. The file SCRNS/SAVE is there to reserve the rest of the disk. If you copy the files with a disk manager, they won't be written to the correct sectors. Then Forth won't run. You have to do a sector copy of the TI Forth disk. Would Copy-C (I think that's the name) do a sector copy to a .dsk image file? That is what a v9t9 style disk image is right? PC99 image is track copy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FarmerPotato Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 (edited) Yes, a v9t9 DSK is just the bytes from sectors 0-359 or so. No header. EDIT: my disk was originally 720 sectors, but I only got 360. Edited September 14 by FarmerPotato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonACT Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 On 9/14/2024 at 8:27 AM, FarmerPotato said: The file SCRNS/SAVE is there to reserve the rest of the disk. OK, so those files mark all the in-use sectors, and DCOPY should be good to back-up this disk, even if it doesn't save the unreserved sectors. Same with Pascal disks, all the sectors are marked as in-use, so DCOPY would work there also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dhe Posted September 15 Author Share Posted September 15 @JasonACT @FarmerPotato - here is what was saved by dcopy. forti_music_system_dcopy_save 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FarmerPotato Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 (edited) On 9/15/2024 at 6:04 AM, JasonACT said: OK, so those files mark all the in-use sectors, and DCOPY should be good to back-up this disk, even if it doesn't save the unreserved sectors. Same with Pascal disks, all the sectors are marked as in-use, so DCOPY would work there also. From reading Lee's fbForth 2.0 manual p. 106, esp the figure on p.209. It implies that file-by-file copy is not such a bad idea. Every sector is allocated to the 3 files, in the peculiar default order which the TI disk controller follows. Here's the explanation: The TI disk controller DSR "reserves" the outer tracks' sectors 2-33 for file descriptor records (decimal). 32 FDRs is a good amount. They're not actually reserved in the allocation bitmap. The DSR just allocates free sectors to file content starting at sector 34. After all sectors above 34 are allocated, it will use the free space left in 3-33. Background: A Forth Screen or Block is 1K in TI Forth. 1K is 4 sectors. TI Forth defines Screen 0 as sectors 0-3. A 90K floppy (lowest common size) is 360 sectors or 90 screens. The original TI Forth disk layout follows the natural, default order which the DSR follows, just as if it had been copied file-by-file in Disk Manager. (I wasn't aware of that! Thought I disproved that by experiment.) Filename FDR Sectors volume info 0 file directory 1 FORTH 2 34 to 38 FORTHSAVE 3 39 to 76 SYS-SCRNS 4 77 to 359 continued 5 to 33 The SYS-SCRNS file is the one that wraps around. So, is you use Disk Manager to copy a 360 sector disk to a freshly formatted one, the files should land in exactly the same places. If you are reading SYS-SCRNS record-by-record, then you won't get all the screens, and they are in a weird order. Particularly, it won't cover FORTH and FORTHSAVE in sectors 34-76. The first data record of SYS-SCRNS, which you get from sector 77, is Forth screen 19 line 4 (decimal). At record 566, SYS-SCRNS wraps around and covers Screen 1 Line 4. Super grateful to @Lee Stewart for making the excellent table on page 209. Edited September 16 by FarmerPotato moved 1K 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Maybe what this is for... 4thBAKUP.ZIP XB AUTOLOAD (don't forget to tip!) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 4 minutes ago, HOME AUTOMATION said: Maybe what this is for... 4thBAKUP.ZIP XB AUTOLOAD (don't forget to tip!) Here's a tip. You're probably right!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 7 minutes ago, HOME AUTOMATION said: (don't forget to tip!) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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