Is it time to retire the concept of gaming generations ?

[GoldLeader]

7 hours ago, JPF997 said:

Technically the Atari VCS ( 2021) is the first console that allows you to upgrade it whenever you want to, you can upgrade the RAM and even had an internal SSD to it, if Atari can do it then the Big three are probably not that far  behind (especially after the backlash against the PS5 Pro, it's better to just let users make they're own Pro models than charging ludicrous amounts for an official one).

 Hmmm...Guess you never heard of the Arcadia Supercharger, Turbo CD, Super System Cards/Arcade Cards, Sega CD, 32X, N64 Expansion pak,  etc. ...

[HatefulGravey]

The thing missing from VR is the "killer app". There has to be something that everyone wants to do with the new hardware. Once there is a game everyone wants to play that can only be played on VR things will change. Maybe by then VR will be both cheaper and better than it is today, creating the perfect VR storm if you will.

 

I'm betting AI makes the next big move in video game generations. The graphics are going to have to level off, if they haven't already. Something else is going to have to make a difference. I feel like AI could be used to create some really interesting new challenges in the video game world. A game that can actually think a little instead of us having to program all the behaviors could shake things up a lot.

Edited October 9 by HatefulGravey

[zzip]

13 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

The "Generations" idea is mostly for history.  Even I would be hard pressed to describe it up to the PS2 Vs. Gamecube Vs. XBox Console War...There'd always be someone who disagrees.  And, Do we use a "X.5 Generation" to describe Intellivision and Dreamcast, etc.?  But the Console Wars themselves (as in which systems were available when)  should not be forgotten.

Yeah, There have always been oddball "half gen" machines,  like the Intellivision or even the Jaguar,  Nintendo now releases about a half-gen behind the others and with lower tech specs.   

 

But usually there's something significant each generation brought to the table

 

Gen 1: Pong machines, B&W, no cartridge

Gen 2: First consoles with carts, color, primitive graphics and sound

Gen 3: much higher cart capacities, arcade like-graphics, better sound

Gen 4: 16-bit, significant graphic/sound improvements

Gen 5: CD-ROM for much more game content & some hardware 3D

Gen 6: DVD; start of online-multiplayer and HD video in some systems.

Gen 7: muliplayer matures, HD standard

[CapitanClassic]

5 minutes ago, HatefulGravey said:

I feel like AI could be used to create some really interesting new challenges in the video game world. A game that can actually think a little instead of us having to program all the behaviors could shake things up a lot.

I think you are putting too much faith in what AI is capable of. If anything, the current generation of video gamers will have to die off, when the youth who have grown up with AI Assistants / AI Girlfriends / AI Teachers / etc. so that they cannot tell the difference between the computers and human responses.

 

AI / Machine Learning algorithms aren't sophisticated enough to fool most people.

[JPF997]

36 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

 Hmmm...Guess you never heard of the Arcadia Supercharger, Turbo CD, Super System Cards/Arcade Cards, Sega CD, 32X, N64 Expansion pak,  etc. ...

These are add ons aka a piece of hardware that attaches  itself to the original system  to increase it's capabilities, what I was referring to is totally different, being able to freely upgrade the original hardware is something only PCs have allowed you to do until the VCS.

Edited October 9 by JPF997

[CapitanClassic]

8 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

These are add ons aka a piece of hardware that attaches to the original system  to increase it's capabilities, what I was referring to is totally different, being able to freely upgrade the original hardware is something only PCs have allowed you to do until the VCS.

What is inherently different between a PC expansion slot and say a Genesis expansion port?

 

 

 

[JPF997]

44 minutes ago, CapitanClassic said:

What is inherently different between a PC expansion slot and say a Genesis expansion port?

 

 

 

A lot of consoles back in the 80s/90s had extension ports, most of the time they were only used to attach add ons ( Sega CD) or they weren't used for anything (the NES was infamous for this). 

 

Being able to  personally upgrade the internals of a gaming console ( RAM, Internal memory etc) without resorting to mods ( and having the approval of the manufacturer for doing so ) is something that Atari has pioneered with the VCS, I think they deserve some credit for this.

Edited October 9 by JPF997

[+Zeptari]

15 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

pioneered with the VCS

Nope.

 

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_64_Expansion_Pak#:~:text=The Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak,games to utilize the hardware.

 

I'm surprised at how many games can be enhanced with the Expansion Pak.

[hizzy]

Games are games, new, retro, etc... They are not retro to me. Maybe more like golden oldies

[JPF997]

10 hours ago, Zeptari said:

Nope.

 

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_64_Expansion_Pak#:~:text=The Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak,games to utilize the hardware.

 

I'm surprised at how many games can be enhanced with the Expansion Pak.

The Expansion Pak is more or less an

add-on just like the SEGA CD and 32X, it's not you personally as a consumer having the right to costumize your machine to your liking it's Nintendo doing it for you.

[+Biff Burgertime]

11 hours ago, JPF997 said:

Being able to  personally upgrade the internals of a gaming console ( RAM, Internal memory etc) without resorting to mods ( and having the approval of the manufacturer for doing so ) is something that Atari has pioneered with the VCS, I think they deserve some credit for this.

 

The N64 Expansion Pak is literally a RAM upgrade... 4MB->8MB

[leech]

18 hours ago, zzip said:

Another big issue is the physical limits to the immersion.   Sure the VR world may LOOK real,   but try to touch something, and it's not there.   You can drive a VR car at high-speeds and whip around corners, but there's no centrifrugal forces or G-forces like there should be.    A VR swordfight/lightsaber fight sounds awesome but there's nothing to stop you from swinging your sword right through theirs.    I don't know if these limitations can ever be overcome.

There are haptic gloves and such that they're working on for that aspect of it.  But again, they're extremely expensive, and not exactly being produced at a high enough level for it to be anywhere near the consumer level.

[leech]

5 hours ago, Biff Burgertime said:

 

The N64 Expansion Pak is literally a RAM upgrade... 4MB->8MB

I was wondering the other day if anyone has made a list of consoles and the extremely cool things that could be added / bypassed through the cartridge port.  Like the Genesis has the 32x that can add more processing power to it, yet they didn't have video going through it (which is why it depends on a separate cable pass through) or something like the 7800, where RGB can be added through the cart port like the Game Drive does.

[leech]

17 hours ago, Zeptari said:

Nope.

 

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_64_Expansion_Pak#:~:text=The Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak,games to utilize the hardware.

 

I'm surprised at how many games can be enhanced with the Expansion Pak.

It absolutely was pioneered with the VCS, where you could have extra things in the cart passed through the system to have some 'enhanced' games.  But long before the N64, we had the Genesis (mentioned above), the Sega Master System, NES, etc.  All have some expansion ports.  Even the 5200 and ColecoVision before that.  At least the ColecoVision had the 2600 adapter available.

 

Even more similar to the N64; you have the memory expansion carts for the Saturn as well.

 

Edit: I should wake up more before replying with an attempt at a correction.  You were referring to the VCS 800, I was thinking the 2600/VCS.  Thanks Atari for making that just a bit more annoying to clarify...  I will say, as far as systems that are not physical medium based, the VCS 800 having any sort of upgrade ability is indeed a rarity.  Sure, you can upgrade the storage on a PS3-5, but you can't exactly add more RAM to it.

Edited October 10 by leech

[leech]

22 hours ago, JPF997 said:

If Half Life Alyx couldn't get me into VR no game will, it's just a gimmick like 3D  in the early 2010s, even Sony is starting to lose interest in  VR and they have traditionally been the biggest supporters of it in the industry.

By the way, Half-life: Alyx was AWESOME!

[leech]

20 hours ago, zzip said:

Yeah, There have always been oddball "half gen" machines,  like the Intellivision or even the Jaguar,  Nintendo now releases about a half-gen behind the others and with lower tech specs.   

 

But usually there's something significant each generation brought to the table

 

Gen 1: Pong machines, B&W, no cartridge

Gen 2: First consoles with carts, color, primitive graphics and sound

Gen 3: much higher cart capacities, arcade like-graphics, better sound

Gen 4: 16-bit, significant graphic/sound improvements

Gen 5: CD-ROM for much more game content & some hardware 3D

Gen 6: DVD; start of online-multiplayer and HD video in some systems.

Gen 7: muliplayer matures, HD standard

Gen 8: everything is just a PC with a proprietary OS.  Resolution bump to  UHD

Gen 9: Physical Media becomes a thing of the past, and you no longer 'own' any of your games.  Resolution bump to whatever 8k is alternatively called.

 

(I may be a bit bitter).

[zzip]

27 minutes ago, leech said:

Gen 9: Physical Media becomes a thing of the past, and you no longer 'own' any of your games.  Resolution bump to whatever 8k is alternatively called.

 

Also Gen 9:instead of new games, give us remasters of games that were already beautiful and didn't need to be remastered...   like "Until Dawn" and "Horizon Zero Dawn", making them worse in the process (yeah I'm bitter too, haha)

[+DrVenkman]

Maybe it’s time to retire the concept of people who weren’t even alive at the time starting horrendously bad-take forum threads about pop cultural and gaming eras they know nothing about?

[atarifan88]

It is time to retire this thread. The title makes no sense. 🙄

[leech]

53 minutes ago, atarifan88 said:

It is time to retire this thread. The title makes no sense. 🙄

I think it is just time to retire, so I can enjoy all the old stuff I had to skip when my 1050 drive died because past me decided that it'd be neat to look inside the thing, pull out the happy chip and wonder at the magic that it did... unfortunately, I missed the pins when I inserted it, and murdered 'my precious' and we sent it off to get repaired... and never saw it again.

 

I'm fairly certain it went all the way to middle-earth and Sauron used it to conquer up to the Shire...

[Shawn]

On 10/9/2024 at 7:23 AM, JPF997 said:

Go ahead and do what ? 

 

Go ahead and stop posting. It's for the best. You can do it!

[+Zeptari]

4 hours ago, atarifan88 said:

It is time to retire this thread.

[+remowilliams]

It's time for people to retire from posting in these endless inane threads.

[Video]

Didn't read the whole topic,but just to the title, I'd say yes. We've reached a point of stagnation where the new generation of consoles only purpose is mild resolution bumps, but we the consumer really aren't getting anything. Seriously, outside resolution, does the current gen offer anything we weren't already getting with ps4 and xbox one? There's a reason the decade old switch is still selling well, because (while its the only current system I'd say kindof needs to) its not mindlessly upgrading for shits and giggles, so to speak.

[Zoyous]

1 hour ago, Video said:

Didn't read the whole topic,but just to the title, I'd say yes. We've reached a point of stagnation where the new generation of consoles only purpose is mild resolution bumps, but we the consumer really aren't getting anything. Seriously, outside resolution, does the current gen offer anything we weren't already getting with ps4 and xbox one? There's a reason the decade old switch is still selling well, because (while its the only current system I'd say kindof needs to) its not mindlessly upgrading for shits and giggles, so to speak.

Real-time raytracing is one relatively new feature that is being hyped now, which wasn't previously possible. But the fact of the matter is, when it takes groups like Digital Foundry making videos where they present magnification tools and side-by-side comparisons to demonstrate the differences, most consumers would consider the new feature very subtle - if they notice it at all. Knowing some of the technical underpinnings, it is impressive, but it's really nothing compared to the leap from 8-bit to 16-bit in the late 80s, or the transition from pixel art to 3D in the mid-90s. Consider the changes in video games from 1980 to 1990, or from 1985 to 1995. Now consider the changes from 2014-2024. Yes, there have been advancements in physics and raytracing, but only people who are deeply into all this will have noticed much, if anything, going on.