TIX Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 (edited) So.. Major Havoc, the ultimate vector game (at least for me) that surprising never saw a home port.. Given the fact that the game remains an Atari property, maybe this will be an inspiration for a possible remake/port for the 7800/7800+ For the past few months as a distraction between my other projects, I found myself doing some re-imagining of the arcade's assets, of course this time everything will be in glorious raster/pixel style instead of vector ! I’m going to document my progress here, with the hope to attract some coders in the discussion 🤞 Remember I'm not a coder so take everything with a grain of salt.. For the shake of this experiment, I'm focusing my efforts in the platform game section as I don't know how possible it will be to combine the various game styles.. Probably a fun game can be made out of this section alone. I took the advice of a coder friend to draw levels in 28x56 tiles (4 colors), that leaves 48 pixels between platforms for the moving sprites to live.. with this limitation in place I decided to make "the Major" 20 pixels high thus giving him enough room to be able to run under a robot or jump over it ! Now, there are several "maze objects", animated or not, should they be part of the background ? if yes then should they be drawn in the same 4 colors as the platforms ? I have done some tests and this can work for most of them (except the teleporters and the doors/keys that should be color coded).. I expect adding the sprites (using different palettes) will bring everything to life and maybe used to enhance some of the background objects !? Now, should the sprites be limited to 4 colors each ? or maybe it's possible to incorporate some fancy mode like 160B for more colors ? Anyway here is the Major and small blue robot in action, much more to do.. Edited October 10 by TIX 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 YES!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 As someone who owns a Major Havoc arcade cabinet, I would -love- to see a 7800 port! And I'm sure we'd be able to to use the Major Havoc name, as long as it's a decent port. ..Al 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 18 minutes ago, Albert said: As someone who owns a Major Havoc arcade cabinet, I would -love- to see a 7800 port! And I'm sure we'd be able to to use the Major Havoc name, as long as it's a decent port. ..Al Can we get a handheld version called minor havoc? 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dark Descent Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 This looks exciting. I played a few games of MH at PRGE. Maybe some talented folks will run with the idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pac-Lander Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 LOVE THIS! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 Conveniently all "maze objects" are arranged in tiles, so it's easy to decide on their size and positioning ! Lets start with the small directional arrows, they are always located on the top right corner of the tile, so I managed to draw recognizable versions of them in my 28x56 tiles: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwentySixHundred Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Great idea and when it comes to graphics i know you can more than deliver 😊 As for tiles colours you definitely can run with 160A mode and use all 8 palettes. The restriction is 4 colours per tile (sprite) however each tile can use any of the 8 colour palettes. The tricky part is planning ahead and palette management because they will share palettes you use for sprites. Easily double though 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, TwentySixHundred said: Great idea and when it comes to graphics i know you can more than deliver 😊 thanks Anthony 😁 1 hour ago, TwentySixHundred said: As for tiles colours you definitely can run with 160A mode and use all 8 palettes. The restriction is 4 colours per tile (sprite) however each tile can use any of the 8 colour palettes. The tricky part is planning ahead and palette management because they will share palettes you use for sprites. Easily double though the thing is, (more often than not) on the same tile multiple objects can co-exist.. so everything have to share the same 4 colors ! for example, you can have a piece of a platform + a small arrow + half of a key card + ... so maaaybe if possible we can use some sprites to enhance some of the background objects !?!? Edited October 11 by TIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 Moving on to the larger "Out Arrows", again located on the top right corner, a little trickier as I had to fit in the "OUT" word, turned out pretty good after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, TIX said: thanks Anthony 😁 the thing is, (more often than not) on the same tile multiple objects can co-exist.. so everything have to share the same 4 colors ! for example, you can have a piece of a platform + a small arrow + half of a key card + ... so maaaybe if possible we can use some sprites to enhance some of the background objects !?!? Yes, you can use some "static" sprites to get more colors for the background. One note though, with 160A you have 3+1 colors per palette, the fourth color is transparent so it is the background color. Currently you are using 4+1 colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Very cool. I've honestly never heard of this game. Need to check it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 32 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Yes, you can use some "static" sprites to get more colors for the background. One note though, with 160A you have 3+1 colors per palette, the fourth color is transparent so it is the background color. Currently you are using 4+1 colors. Let me get this straight because the terminology confuses me.. 🤔 so using my own "logic": there is a universal black background as a base, on top of that goes the tiles that build the level, these tiles are using 3 colors + the transparent one -> the transparency shows the underlying color that in this case is black ! So how many colors am I using ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said: Very cool. I've honestly never heard of this game. Need to check it out. Hey Lewis, the original arcade was already awesome, but a couple of years ago some guys perfected it by adding the missing ending, so I suggest to start checking from -> here Edited October 11 by TIX 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 21 minutes ago, TIX said: Let me get this straight because the terminology confuses me.. 🤔 so using my own "logic": there is a universal black background as a base, on top of that goes the tiles that build the level, these tiles are using 3 colors + the transparent one -> the transparency shows the underlying color that in this case is black ! So how many colors am I using ? I was referring to the player sprite, I see two shades of gray, white and red. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 8 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: I was referring to the player sprite, I see two shades of gray, white and red. that is correct as I am currently not sure how to proceed here.. That's why I wrote above: "should the sprites be limited to 4 colors each ? or maybe it's possible to incorporate some fancy mode like 160B for more colors ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 23 minutes ago, TIX said: that is correct as I am currently not sure how to proceed here.. That's why I wrote above: "should the sprites be limited to 4 colors each ? or maybe it's possible to incorporate some fancy mode like 160B for more colors ?" I only clarified this to avoid a potential misunderstanding, which could mean redrawing the sprites. If it had 5 colors then it was clear that you were using 160B, instead I read 4 colors a few times, also in reference to the 160A tiles. For this reason we usually talk about 3+1 colors, instead of 4 colors. It was just to help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mksmith Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Like Lewis not sure I've seen this one - will take a look as well! It would certainly be possible to have a 160B sprite for the main character and the enemies living in 160A - Millie & Molly works this way. As Anthony suggested careful palette layout is the key 😁 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 You guys are getting me excited. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 43 minutes ago, mksmith said: Like Lewis not sure I've seen this one - will take a look as well! It would certainly be possible to have a 160B sprite for the main character and the enemies living in 160A - Millie & Molly works this way. As Anthony suggested careful palette layout is the key 😁 Yep, as Matt said, A.R.T.I.and Koppers also worked this way. I watched some videos, it looks a cool game. Interesting that it was vector (the arcade version). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 I'd love to see this become reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 (edited) On 10/10/2024 at 3:04 PM, TIX said: I expect adding the sprites (using different palettes) will bring everything to life and maybe used to enhance some of the background objects !? Now, should the sprites be limited to 4 colors each ? I think what kept the Arcade ‘fresh’ in color, given its all vector based, is the choice of very different colors altogether for things having different functions . Its like you just by color can spot whats wall, whats enemy, whats projectile etc. Perhaps some of that ‘feel’ can be maintained, by having the hero, the enemies, the robots, the projectiles, the data…thing? kept in colors somewhat reminiscent, but still not having it end up looking like a ZX Spectrum-game? —— I’m no coder either, but my guess would be a 2D vertical schmup section could be squeezed in. It would take memory for code for schmup gameplay and also additional sprites for 2D top-down view Craft and enemies, but given that much of Havocs bases are made up of labyrinths containing pretty much the same objects, I would believe it would be memory enough for a simplified shooter section…! Perhaps you’d happen to know someone who’re good at coding 2D vertical schmup gameplay? Whats needed are essentially just a starfield of pixels (coded) in parallax seen beneath the Hero craft, and enemy-waves, hero-craft gameplay. — Surprising, but cool interpretation you gave it… Edited October 12 by Giles N 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 What a strange game, I never seen it before. IMHO this game should be in 320 modes on A7800. In some places could use vectors and in others animation. Btw 7800 can do very nice vectors. ps. sorry for SID music 😁 IMG_4643.mov 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 This thread reminds me that Major Havoc is included in the Atari Legends series of Arcade1Up mini-cabs. I've only ever seen one example of the real thing. The vector monitor on that example was damn near pristine -I have no idea how the operator managed to get hold of such a perfect example of a working color vector screen without burn-in or fading phosphors decades after they ceased being made, but it was a super fun experience. In addition to Tempest, the same place had both Space Duel and Black Widow cabs, neither of which I'd ever seen in the wild. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 (edited) 18 hours ago, Giles N said: . I’m no coder either, but my guess would be a 2D vertical schmup section could be squeezed in. . I'll definitely explore the shoot em up section and create sprites for it as well, I'm just gonna focus in the platform section for now ! 16 hours ago, Eagle said: . IMHO this game should be in 320 modes on A7800. In some places could use vectors and in others animation. Btw 7800 can do very nice vectors. . no doubt vectors are cool, but not really suitable for a platform game, pixels can add so much character.. also combining 2 different graphic styles is not aesthetically pleasing (at least in my eyes). Edited October 13 by TIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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