Was the Atari XEGS a good idea ?

[JPF997]

It puzzles me why this thing even exists, why did Atari think it was a good idea to launch two different systems roughly at the same time to compete with the NES ? In hindsight the Xegs feels like something that only caused market confusion and didn't really help Atari's situation at all, the commercial where they compare the XE's  game library to the NES

( Reminder that it was all  repackaged late 70s/ early 80s Atari 8bit games  ) was especially embarrassing, really who in their right mind would prefer to play Flight Simulator 2 and Bug Hunt over Super Mario Bros and Duck Hunt  in 1987 ? In the words of James Rolfe "What were they thinking ? " 

 

 

 

Edited November 28 by JPF997

[+bent_pin]

28 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

It puzzles me why this thing even exists, why did Atari think it was a good idea to launch two different systems roughly at the same time to compete with the NES ?

One is a video game console, the other is a computer. In the US the NES is a video game console, in Japan the Famcom is a family computer.

[+Sauron]

It didn't make much sense, but it did provide an easy way for me to buy games on cart for my 130XE computer from Toys R Us. 

 

[82-T/A]

2 hours ago, JPF997 said:

It puzzles me why this thing even exists, why did Atari think it was a good idea to launch two different systems roughly at the same time to compete with the NES ? In hindsight the Xegs feels like something that only caused market confusion and didn't really help Atari's situation at all, the commercial where they compare the XE's  game library to the NES

( Reminder that it was all  repackaged late 70s/ early 80s Atari 8bit games  ) was especially embarrassing, really who in their right mind would prefer to play Flight Simulator 2 and Bug Hunt over Super Mario Bros and Duck Hunt  in 1987 ? In the words of James Rolfe "What were they thinking ? " 

 

I bought one, new in box from a flea-market seller back in like 1998. I really did think it was the coolest thing, but like you, I realized it really didn't make sense at all why this thing ended up getting made in the first place. I guess they figured it was an easy and quick way for them to enter a market where they already had a whole slew of cartridge games available to them, while also being supported by disk / software games at the same time. What I would want to know is... was it profitable? As in, did it increase sales for cartridge games, and did people who already own many of these cartridge games then go buy one of these systems. I know it's cheap to make stuff now in China, but was there a profit margin on these as well? It's possible they just jumped into that market to make some money and increase profits on their existing video game sales, while not having to re-invent their technology ... but just repackage it.

 

 

On a side note, the commercial really gave me 80s nostalgia, being that age and actually being really excited by simple technology like that.

[+Biff Burgertime]

I never understood what they were trying to achieve with those pastel colored buttons, they make it look like a cheap toy for young kids.

[leech]

1 hour ago, Biff Burgertime said:

I never understood what they were trying to achieve with those pastel colored buttons, they make it look like a cheap toy for young kids.

I'm pretty sure that was the idea.  I'm not sure why no one asks the most important question of all... why on earth was Flight Simulator 2 packaged with it?  Like if they're targeting the toy market, but they pack in Flight Simulator 2?  The only time I saw one of these in the shop was when I went to get my Mega STe at one of the few Atari dealers that were still around at the time.  Sure, software was to be had in a few other shops, though they were mostly PC/Amiga in the early 90s.  I mostly just remember they had the Atari Demo with the Robot / Spaceship playing, and they had the light gun sitting on the desk. 

 

20 hours ago, JPF997 said:

Reminder that it was all  repackaged late 70s/ early 80s Atari 8bit games

To be fair, there were some that were updated from the earlier versions.  Like Mario Bros. XE is quite a lot better than the original release for the Atari 8bits.  Then there were some new releases along with some that were on cart for the first time ever.  I think I have most of the XE style carts at this point.  I decided that wouldn't be too hard to collect for... finding all the old metal ones would be much more difficult!

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I quite like it's very unique look.  Though it does kind of stink that it lacks most of the other ports on the XE line, and the keyboard is rather mushy...

 

My guess at the real reason it was made in the first place?  The failure of the 7800.  The XEGS was released in late 1987, so it came after the 7800 was released to an uninterested market.  They likely couldn't get enough developers to release games for it, so designed this as a console that could play the library from the old 8bit computers. 

[leech]

Uhm... anyone want to validate what it says on wikipedia?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_XF551

Quote

At the same time, the success of the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) prompted Atari to repackage their 65XE as the Atari XEGS video game console, boasting it could be expanded to a complete computer with the addition of a keyboard and disk drive. Nintendo sued, noting that Atari had no disk drives to sell, forcing Atari to rush the drive to market in June 1987 even though the software was not ready.

It isn't like Atari was lying, you could absolutely plug in an 810 or 1050 into an XEGS...

Edit: further in the article it claims the lawsuit was over false advertising because stock of the 1050 had ran out and there was a 6 month period where Atari had no stock of floppy drives to sell.  It doesn't seem to state whether Atari won or loss that lawsuit (though it is in the wee hours of the mourn here, and I'm too tired to read the full article )

Edited November 29 by leech

[mr_me]

23 hours ago, JPF997 said:

It puzzles me why this thing even exists, why did Atari think it was a good idea to launch two different systems roughly at the same time to compete with the NES ? In hindsight the Xegs feels like something that only caused market confusion and didn't really help Atari's situation at all, the commercial where they compare the XE's  game library to the NES

( Reminder that it was all  repackaged late 70s/ early 80s Atari 8bit games  ) was especially embarrassing, really who in their right mind would prefer to play Flight Simulator 2 and Bug Hunt over Super Mario Bros and Duck Hunt  in 1987 ? In the words of James Rolfe "What were they thinking ? " 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120929030535/https://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.atari.8bit/msg/98a62e383f31d6cc?dmode=source&hl=en

This was the explanation from Atari Corp marketing at the time. Looks like they had lots of 8-bit computer cartridges in inventory they wanted to move, so wanted to keep the 8-bit platform alive. They thought this was the best way to keep them in department stores and similar retailers who had become less interested in selling computers.

 

2 hours ago, leech said:

Uhm... anyone want to validate what it says on wikipedia?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_XF551

It isn't like Atari was lying, you could absolutely plug in an 810 or 1050 into an XEGS...

Edit: further in the article it claims the lawsuit was over false advertising because stock of the 1050 had ran out and there was a 6 month period where Atari had no stock of floppy drives to sell.  It doesn't seem to state whether Atari won or loss that lawsuit (though it is in the wee hours of the mourn here, and I'm too tired to read the full article )

According to the source, Atari Corp eventually shipped drives and the suit was dropped.

[+Allan]

Would somebody 3-D print some new buttons in gray please?

[+D Train]

7 hours ago, Biff Burgertime said:

I never understood what they were trying to achieve with those pastel colored buttons, they make it look like a cheap toy for young kids.

 

Lotta pastels in the mid to late 80s.  Probably just trying to make things "stylish".

[Lauren Tyler]

I've considered getting one because it's smaller than the 800XL, but is it worth it? Or should I just stick with my 800XL?

[+Allan]

19 minutes ago, Lauren Tyler said:

I've considered getting one because it's smaller than the 800XL, but is it worth it? Or should I just stick with my 800XL?

Stick with your 800XL. The XEGS doesn't even have an expansion port. The only advantage is the detachable keyboard, which is flawed because it doesn't have the Rest, Start, Option and Select keys on it. Plus the cord is short.

[mickster]

There is nothing wrong with the xe game system, it was just a way to market inventory to toy stores since the computer market was drying up in department stores.  

 

The short cable is not a problem, a 5200 controller extension cable  works fine.  Back in the day it was very easy to upgrade to 128k (since it only used two ram chips).

 

Also it had composite out port so a computer monitor cable was not needed ( a big plus back in the day).  I used one for a few years that I picked up used.  I had the monitor and keyboard on my desk, and the console set to the side next to my disk drives. 

 

 

It was a great way to keep a computer product in Toys r us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leech]

1 hour ago, Allan said:

Would somebody 3-D print some new buttons in gray please?

The beauty of 3d printing, if a model is made, you can print it in whatever color you want!

[pacman000]

Atari wasn't the only company to turn their old computer into a game system. Commodore & Amstrad tried too. Of the three systems, Atari's seems like the best deal, since it had an optional keyboard.

 

Actually, for a few years now. I've thought Atari Corp should have skipped the 7800 & gone with the XEGS from the get go. The XEGS was capable of similar graphics, had better sound, a large library of games, & Atari owned it outright; they didn't need to pay GCC royalties.

[leech]

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120929030535/https://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.atari.8bit/msg/98a62e383f31d6cc?dmode=source&hl=en

This was the explanation from Atari Corp marketing at the time. Looks like they had lots of 8-bit computer cartridges in inventory they wanted to move, so wanted to keep the 8-bit platform alive. They thought this was the best way to keep them in department stores and similar retailers who had become less interested in selling computers.

 

According to the source, Atari Corp eventually shipped drives and the suit was dropped.

I did see that as I read it this morning.  Goes to show how litigious Nintendo has always been.

[LatchKeyKid]

Wasn't there also a longstanding element of corporate infighting with Atari in the 80s?   The computer side trying to compete with the console folks and vice-versa so you end up with two products roughly for the same niche that compete with the same competitor's products.

[+pboland]

Was the Atari XEGS a good idea ?

- YES! -

 

I can't seem to find it right this second, but I remember reading somewhere that even though Atari did not sell many XEGS systems (when compared to NES or SMS consoles individually), the console was quite profitable for them. I know the popular belief is Atari screwed up by having three consoles on the market at once, but the truth is it worked out fairly well for Atari at the time. Everyone knows NES was the market leader back then, but what most people don't know is Atari was number 2. Most think it was Sega, but as far as total sales Atari out sold Sega and it was only because of the three systems they had on the market at one time (collectively).

 

On the hardware side of things with the XEGS I agree with @pacman000 Atari should have focused on the XEGS and not the 7800 back then. Atari had a lot more control over the platform and like pacman000 stated Atari wouldn't have had to paid GCC on going royalties. For all of the computers that Atari put out the XEGS has the best stock composite output, and having a detachable keyboard is a nice touch.

[Razzie.P]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:31 AM, JPF997 said:

( Reminder that it was all  repackaged late 70s/ early 80s Atari 8bit games  ) was especially embarrassing, really who in their right mind would prefer to play Flight Simulator 2 and Bug Hunt over Super Mario Bros and Duck Hunt  in 1987 ? In the words of James Rolfe "What were they thinking ? " 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, leech said:

I'm not sure why no one asks the most important question of all... why on earth was Flight Simulator 2 packaged with it?  Like if they're targeting the toy market, but they pack in Flight Simulator 2?  The only time I saw one of these in the shop was when I went to get my Mega STe at one of the few Atari dealers that were still around at the time.  Sure, software was to be had in a few other shops, though they were mostly PC/Amiga in the early 90s.  I mostly just remember they had the Atari Demo with the Robot / Spaceship playing, and they had the light gun sitting on the desk. 

 

 

The screenshot of FS 2 in a Sears catalog was the main reason I wanted this system as a kid.  I even remember drawing that screenshot it in one of my notebooks, amazed at all the crap on screen and thinking I've never seen anything like it.  And of course, when I got it, that amazement skyrocketed because it didn't have "game manuals"... if had friggin' flight manuals.  I was learning something and having a blast doing it.

 

As a kid, I didn't really give a crap about Super Mario Bros.  Had it, played it, it was alright.... But FS II was some next level gaming for me.

[MrMaddog]

I sorta have mixed feelings on having the XEGS as a competing console as opposed to just a home computer...

 

As someone who owned a 130XE computer in the late 80's, it was great for us existing Atari 8-bit users.  I could go into a toy chain and purchase game carts for my XE computer w/o getting funny looks from sales clerks who usually sell C64 & NES games.  Despite what Nintendo had said, there were older kids & teens who still play games on home computers like the C64 and they were still selling at places like Toys R Us.  The Atari 8-bit computers were pretty much ignored because they were targeting machines that had 128K, and yes although the 130XE did have 128K RAM they were still a niche market of an existing niche market of 800 computers.

 

(That's why having up to 256K of bankswitched ROM on a cart was benificial for computer games like Ultima IV, you don't need to use 128K RAM to store the whole game or even a disk drive except to save games.)

 

But for actually going up against the NES with action-arcade type games then the 7800 should have been the game system by Atari.  On an equal ground of selling 8-bit consoles, the 7800 might have had a better chance if it came with gamepads like the PAL version and a better focus on having exclusives like arcade ports and platformers.

 

Having 2600 versions (and XEGS) versions of 7800 games was a mistake because it diluted the market and caused too much confusion with consumers.  The later 80's 2600 titles like Solaris would had been better with having "2600/7800" on the top of the box so 7800 owners would have some good games as well.  At that time most people looking for 2600 games to play go to yard sales and thrift stores.

 

Here's how Atari should have had their 8-bit consoles:

 

2600: Older games and new games not also made for the 7800

7800: Action genre games and arcade ports with comtemporary graphics & sound

XEGS: Home computer games; primary adventure games and sports sims

 

As for why Atari Corp. did what they did, no one ever said Sam Tramiel was a smart CEO.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Just now, MrMaddog said:

I sorta have mixed feelings on having the XEGS as a competing console as opposed to just a home computer...

 

As someone who owned a 130XE computer in the late 80's, it was great for us existing Atari 8-bit users.  I could go into a toy chain and purchase game carts for my XE computer w/o getting funny looks from sales clerks who usually sell C64 & NES games. 

 

Yes, yes, and yes. North American software houses had given up on the A8 line in 1987, and the NTSC market was simply collapsing. I can't tell you what a thrill it was to look into the Sears Wish Catalogue in 1987 and see an entire range of new titles being brought out for the line -- and being made widely available! It had been years since I had been able to walk into a regular department store and see A8 titles for sale. 

 

Most of the XEGS releases were excellent, too. If there's one regret about the XEGS, it's that MIDI Maze wasn't made the final release for the system.

[Lauren Tyler]

9 hours ago, Allan said:

Stick with your 800XL. The XEGS doesn't even have an expansion port. The only advantage is the detachable keyboard, which is flawed because it doesn't have the Rest, Start, Option and Select keys on it. Plus the cord is short.

Good to know.

[leech]

9 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

 

The screenshot of FS 2 in a Sears catalog was the main reason I wanted this system as a kid.  I even remember drawing that screenshot it in one of my notebooks, amazed at all the crap on screen and thinking I've never seen anything like it.  And of course, when I got it, that amazement skyrocketed because it didn't have "game manuals"... if had friggin' flight manuals.  I was learning something and having a blast doing it.

 

As a kid, I didn't really give a crap about Super Mario Bros.  Had it, played it, it was alright.... But FS II was some next level gaming for me.

That makes you more rare.  Super Mario Bros sold a lot of NES.  As did Duck Hunt.  Bug Hunt, on the other hand was... not great.  I finally experienced that a few years ago when I got an Atari Light gun and a cart.  The gun accuracy left a lot to be desired, I didn't recall having such issues with Duck Hunt at a friend's house. 

Mind you, I was also odd, as I much preferred the SMS to NES.  But still would have rather had an Atari during that time, had they managed to get developers to make games for them... though we all know now that we can blame Nintendo for most of that.  And Atari themselves for not trying to chase the support that Commodore was getting for the c64.

[mr_me]

13 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said:

Wasn't there also a longstanding element of corporate infighting with Atari in the 80s?   The computer side trying to compete with the console folks and vice-versa so you end up with two products roughly for the same niche that compete with the same competitor's products.

That was Atari Inc under Warner prior to 1984. Tramiel's Atari was focused on making home computers, moving their inventory of video games, and whatever made them money.

[waynel]

XEGS made sense for a lot of reasons. 
 

Atari was able to out out a new console very cheaply. Virtually no development and R&D costs. And a massive library of software ready to go. 
 

And, yes, those pastel colors and strange angles were super popular in that era.