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Cuttle Cart 2 Discussion Thread


cschell

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Hello everyone,

 

I'm happy to announce that the Cuttle Cart 2 is pretty much ready to go. (But there are still some details I have to work out not directly related to the product.)

 

To give people a good idea of what the Cuttle Cart 2 is all about, and what's involved in getting things up and running, I've posted the Cuttle Cart 2 manual and the some Cuttle Cart 2 utilities on my website. (Links below.)

 

I've also started this thread to discuss the Cuttle Cart 2 and the utilities, and to answer any questions you may have. I've asked that any willing beta testers come participate in this thread, and instructed them to give their own, uncensored, honest answers to any questions you may have. So please feel free to solicit their opinions as well as any technical questions.

 

I'm still working on the business license issues and some other non-product related issues, but once I begin taking preorders the window to place them will be rather short. So please, take a look at things now, ask any questions, and decide if this is a product you would like to own.

 

The details:

 

Get the manuals and utilities from this page:

http://www.schells.com/cc2utils/cc2files.shtml

 

(If you don't know what the Cuttle Cart 2 is, I suggest starting with http://www.schells.com/cc2.shtml instead.)

 

Please download and READ the manual BEFORE you download and play with the utilities.

 

The utilities are provided for Win32 platforms, and source code is provided for all of them for compilation under Linux and other Unix platforms. No Mac support though. (Sorry.)

 

The utilities are very basic, and anyone interested is welcome in improving them. I suggest using this thread to talk about any thing along those lines.

 

Thanks for your interest,

Chad

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I just took a very, very quick glance at the manual and this really looks like an incredible product. :)

 

One thing about which MMC to buy, is there any sort of performance issue with a different size MMC? (i.e., would it be better to buy a couple smaller MMCs, one for the 2600, one for 7800, etc) Like, does the menu slow way down when scrolling, or does the directory take a long time to read?

 

Have any of the beta testers tried different MMCs?

 

(I know my GP32 takes forever reading a directory with a ton of files on SmartMedia...)

 

Anyone know where to get decent MMC cards cheap? ;)

 

Does the POKEY only get power if it needs it? Since it's only for 2 games, I'm wondering if it's worth opening the CC2 to install one (and risk other damage; obviously unlikely but you never know)... does heat disappation become an issue in a small cart? (ok, that's kind of a lame question, but I'm not sure how hot the rest of the stuff runs inside...)

 

Can't wait to hear it's ready to go!

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I hope some Mac users can recompile the Unix/Linux code for Mac OS X, otherwise i'll be forced to taint my eMac by installing Virtual PC 6.

 

I hope the release time will be far off enough to save up the $200 it costs. I'm not used to spending that much on videogame stuff. I need to stop buying games for a while and save my cash.

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Just a little followup to that email I sent long ago. I still haven't found any docs on SD card and I can't even tell if the socket are different or not. I'm pretty sure the SD socket are exactly the same as MMC and it's just the different protocol for the secure part.

 

It's a shame, I have a few SD cards for my digital cam and no MMC card. Oh well.

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There's definitely a difference between MultiMedia Card and SD card. MMC has 7 pins; SD has 9. SD is backward compatible with MMC, meaning devices with SD slots can also use MMC. On the other hand, devices with MMC slots that do not have the extra 2 pins cannot use SD.

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I picked up two used 32 MB MMC cards off ebay pretty cheap. Only one is really necessary to contain the whole 2600 / 7800 library of games and its manuals.

 

I also got a MMC / SD reader-writer with USB cable off eBay for less than $10.

 

The whole setup was pretty inexpensive (<$20) (not counting the cost of the CC2) and once I got the list of games (menu.cc2) and game BINs on the card .. then the CC2 worked great!

 

Since then I've been trying to get as many BINs and meaningful hacks on the card to try out. As this CC2 works only on the 7800 console .. I have not touched any of my 2600 consoles at all (including my highly modified 2600).

 

You really do need to get a working 7800 console now if you want to get the CC2 when available.

 

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

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Thanks for the update Chad!

 

I have a question about the POKEY chip. I have an old 600XL just lying around. Are the POKEY chips socketed in the XL machines? I know I can open it and find out my answer but I thought this would be quicker since I'm not near it :)

 

Also, once the POKEY is installed will the board fit back in the CC case?

 

I think it's neat that you can update the main ROM. This will make updating a breeze. :thumbsup: :love:

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I have a question about the POKEY chip. I have an old 600XL just lying around. Are the POKEY chips socketed in the XL machines? I know I can open it and find out my answer but I thought this would be quicker since I'm not near it :)

I don't know a way to tell without open the XL.

I have 5 of them 4x800XL and 1x600XL, 3 of them are socketed and two (800XL) not.

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To address a couple questions here....

 

MMC cards and readers can be found at Frys Electronics pretty cheap. Somewhere along the lines of $15 each. I have not experienced any performance issues and I have about 700+ roms installed. You have the option of putting your favorite games at the top of the menu listing as well. So accessing them is quick.

 

The Pokey chip can be purchased from Best Electronics ~$5 last time I looked. Or you can rip it out of a BallBlazer cart :D

Once installed, the cart goes back together with no interference problems. FWIW, the games that require a pokey will work, you just won't get any sound.

 

As far as the cost go... It is worth every penny. Imagine running the entire 7800 library and the entire 2600 libray from one cart. Games like Save Mary, multi-load Supercharger games, etc... all run flawlessly. There is only one, and only one, game that will not work. That game being Pitfall II. As it has extra hardware not emulated by the CC2, it will not work. Other than that, Magic Card, Video Life, the Kid Vid games et. al. all work flawlessly, not mention the entire 7800 Library.

 

I think Chad's beta testers did an outstanding job of providing feedback. You are certain to hear more from them about the quality and utility of this product.

 

If I were you, I would make damn sure I ordered one. Like the original CC, Chad has told me that he will only make the quantity that he gets pre-orders for and an extra 10-20% more. After that? ...well. you all have seen what happened with the CC and the Intellicart. I personally have ordered 2. One as a backup.

 

My 2 cents,

-Lee

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One thing about which MMC to buy, is there any sort of performance issue with a different size MMC?

 

There is a slight slow down in menu scrolling towards the end of the menu as the number of menu entries increases. But even when I listed 6000 entries the slow down wasn't enough to bother me. Given the number of entries you're actually likely to have, I see no reason to split files onto different MMCs.

 

Have any of the beta testers tried different MMCs?

 

Yes. Different brands and sizes.

 

Does the POKEY only get power if it needs it? Since it's only for 2 games, I'm wondering if it's worth opening the CC2 to install one (and risk other damage; obviously unlikely but you never know)... does heat disappation become an issue in a small cart? (ok, that's kind of a lame question, but I'm not sure how hot the rest of the stuff runs inside...)

 

The POKEY has power all the time, but it is only selected when it is needed. I believe the POKEY stays in a lower power state when deselected (most chips do, but I can't recall on my power tests whether the POKEY did or not.) The CC2 draws less power than a typical 7800 cartridge, so power and heat dissipation are not a problem.

 

Chad

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I'm pretty sure the SD socket are exactly the same as MMC and it's just the different protocol for the secure part.

 

I know for certain they do not use the same socket. The SD card is slightly thicker than an MMC, so it will not fit into an MMC socket. The SD socket is design with a subtle two level design that allows it to hold both SD cards and the thinner MMCs. (And as someone else mentioned the SD sockets bring out all 9 pins on the SD card, while the MMC sockets only bring out the 7 MMC pins.)

 

It's a shame, I have a few SD cards for my digital cam and no MMC card.  Oh well.

 

Look at this way, you'll probably dedicate a card to the CC2 anyway, so if you used one of your camera cards you have one fewer available for that purpose. And your SD reader/writer almost certainly supports MMCs.

 

Chad

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I loaded about 2,700 atari 2600 rom images onto my card. It didn't seem to have any trouble scrolling through them. I keep wishing for a "tree" interface where I can expand and collapse branches instead of the "list" interface, but I tend to be a bit of a power user, and I can see how generating and managing the configuration file for that sort of an interface would be painful for most users.

 

Overall, it is an excellent product. Chad did a great job.

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Yknow I haven't put my reservation down for one.. is this an appropriate place to do so?

 

Nope. But there is currently no such place. I'll set up a system for people to place orders once everything is ready. I'll announce it on my website, on my mailing list, and here on Atariage.

 

Chad

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I would definitely get this if it was more affordable.

 

$200 is a fair price though. It looks like a nice utility to play games that are otherwise hard to obtain.

 

I'm tellin ya, do what it takes to get the cash!!!

 

I dont have a CC1, but I do own a Supercharger. The CC1 was great because it did what the Supercharger did on an expanded level.

 

This is a megaleap beyond that. Menu driven!!! Game name displayed onscreen!! In the order you want! No more skipping around thru track names on a CD player. No more fumbling trying to find what track the game you want is on.

And no additional equipment sitting by your machine(PocketPC, Laptop, Cd player,tape player) This is the size of a standard 7800 cart with the MMC sticking out the top just enough to grasp.

 

Ya gotta do what ya can to find the cash!! Seriously!

 

Buck

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I would definitely get this if it was more affordable.

 

$200 is a fair price though. It looks like a nice utility to play games that are otherwise hard to obtain.

 

I'm tellin ya, do what it takes to get the cash!!!

 

 

Buck

 

I am already making sacrifices in my collection to try to allocate some funds for this. I put a 4 switch 2600 up on ebay with most of my common games. It was definitely hard to put up over half of my cartriges, but that shows you how much I want this thing. ;)

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I'm tellin ya, do what it takes to get the cash!!!  

 

I dont have a CC1, but I do own a Supercharger.  The CC1 was great because it did what the Supercharger did on an expanded level.

 

This is a megaleap beyond that.  Menu driven!!!  Game name displayed onscreen!!  In the order you want!  No more skipping around thru track names on a CD player.  No more fumbling trying to find what track the game you want is on.

And no additional equipment sitting by your machine(PocketPC, Laptop, Cd player,tape player)  This is the size of a standard 7800 cart with the MMC sticking out the top just enough to grasp.

 

Ya gotta do what ya can to find the cash!! Seriously!

 

Buck

 

Does everyone believe that I'm not even paying this guy for endorsements like this? :D (I find it hard to believe myself, I guess I should go check that he actually paid for his beta unit. :P )

 

But seriously, thanks for your support Buck. Customer responses like this are great for one's psyche.

 

Chad

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Does everyone believe that I'm not even paying this guy for endorsements like this?

 

Dang .. I really need to act more enthusiastically about this CC2 .. especially since Chad is paying me to endorce it! :D

 

Buy the CC2! :D BUY the CC2! :D BUY THE CC2! :D

 

If you have a 7800 without a power supply and you want to get the CC2 .. contact me about a power supply solution! Everyone within the sound of my voice should get a working 7800 AND a CC2!

 

The CC2 is so much more convenient to use than the original CC1!

 

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

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If anyone comes up with a good online deal for 32MB MMC cards, please post it. The best deal I have seen is about $17 with free shipping on a Kingston card here:

 

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MMC-32KI&c=PG

 

I might just pull the trigger on this today unless a better deal comes up. I have dealt with this merchant in the past - no problems.

 

I've seen some cards on eBay but the total price after the ridiculous shipping charges is not that much better than this.

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