Retrofan Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Hi, this is my first posting in this forum but I allready read a lot. Because there is no ideas topic I post my game idea here. Yes, I have an idea for a new VCS Game I can?t program myself (surprise). I think it is possible to make a port of the famous arcade game Solomon?s Key. I had a little mail discussion with Thomas Jentzsch about my ideas und screenshots, so this is the second result: Original: My 2600 design idea: Please help to make it possible. I need your feedback and one interested programmer to realize it. If nobody want it I will forget the project and go back into my cave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susuwatari Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 It does look possible but I don't think you can have that many different object on screen at once. It'd have to use more identcal object rather than different object or you could try the flickering bit like Adventure. I haven't played Solomon's Key in ages so I can't remember but how many screens are there in total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Wow! I have dreamed of Solomon's Key on the VCS many times, but never thought it was possible. The whole "find the key - get to the door - next room" type of game has been one of my favorites as long as I can remember. The puzzles aspect of Solomon's Key is particularly appealing, as well as The Adventure of Lolo (NES) and Donkey Kong 95 (SGB). If it is possible, I'd really like to see it done on the VCS. I really like the mockup! :-) I love puzzle games. I was really impressed with the Sokoban demo... Although, I'd like to see the game completed with several more levels. :-) I wonder what is it exactly about playing one of these games implemented on the VCS that excites me so much. I can always play the arcade version on Mame... or a graphically superior port on another console, but when a game is ported just right, I always prefer the VCS version. Is that weird? Does anyone else feel this way? BTW, great idea... I really hope that it gets implemented some day. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I haven't played Solomon's Key in ages so I can't remember but how many screens are there in total? I had the game on the NES and I believe there were about 50 different levels. Very challenging game I must add... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrofan Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thanx for the first comments. I don't know much more about the later levels. But unlike DonkeyKong the levels bases on the same graphics and functions so I think it's not the problem. A for the 2600 version 20 levels would be ok. (excuse my bad english, I do my best) A new version with little modifications: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I barely remember how Solomon's Key plays, I remember it being fun though and would be a GREAT port to the VCS. The main thing about your screen shot that would be tough is the color. You've got a lot of sprites on a single line with a lot of color. A few of those sprites (ie the player) may need to be mono-chromatic. You are definitely looking at a flicker fest as is, if its even possible. I would LOVE to see this happen though. Great idea! and don't sweat your english, its just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 The score is impossible. Remember, no more than 48 pixel/row. That's usually just 6 digits. Better forget any descriptions there. What are the maximum sizes for a Solomon's Key level. How many rows and columns of blocks? Maybe you could post some screenshots (or mockups) of maximum sized levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 oh yeah, totally, I didn't even notice the score down there. Maybe he could do something like the score bar in Desert Falcon where they put the descriptions ABOVE the numbers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Maybe he could do something like the score bar in Desert Falcon where they put the descriptions ABOVE the numbers etc. Yes, though that will cost some maybe valuable vertical space. But you can increase the vertical size to at least 200 pixels, maybe even a few more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 true. Could he also use a smaller amount of space at the top of the screen(minus the descriptions) to keep track of that extra info (ala the "lives" and "flashes" in Tutankham) and minimize the amount of space needed for the score at the bottom. Thus giving him more space for the actual game field? The trade off would be the amount of description he could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrofan Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 the max. Solomons Key Level is 15 x 10 blocks. I don't know the arcade levels but I found a walkthrough for the Nintendo version. That are not the same levels but the matrix is the same. If someone have all screens of the arcade version please send me. NES Example of higher level: latest 2600 Screen with smaller score and less colors for the sprites: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 That is SO freaking awesome. I know I'd play it. Frankly, I'm kind of worried about what Tecmo would do to Solomon's Key if they remade it for the XBox. They'd probably give it an M rating and give the fairies boobs so big they could barely fly. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 That more recent screenshot looks more doable. I would point you toward Andrew Davie's Programming for Newbies forum. Once there you can begin steps to turn this baby into a reality! It seems like there are a lot of people who would like to see this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Chaos Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Solomon´s Key is a great game, indeed.I played it a lot on the ATARI ST which got a quite good version (much better than the PC port). This would also be a nice game for the ATARI 5200 (800) or the 7800, these systems should have no problems with such a game (since it was ported to almost any 8 Bit System except ATARI in the 80s - even for C64 and Sinclair Spectrum). Thimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 the max. Solomons Key Level is 15 x 10 blocks. Ok, now we can do some calculations for the RAM consumption. Currently each block is 2 Playfield (PF) pixel (4*2=8 sprite pixel wide), so you only need 30 PF pixel in total for the variable part. Therefore for each block row you need 4x2=8 bytes (2 bytes, because need differrent patterns for the striped blocks). With 10 rows, you need a total of 80 bytes, leaving you just 48 bytes for the rest of the whole game. That's not very much, maybe only just enough. The number of RAM bytes used could be slightly reduced, by reducing the number of rows, but that's probably not a good idea. An alternative would be, to let the striped blocks flicker instead (making them look darker too). This would halve the RAM consumption for the display kernel, but the flicker may get annoying. And then you need some additional RAM again just to store the block pattern, because during flickering that information gets lost. With some optimizing this should be 1 bit/block (~20 Bytes in total) and we now would need 60 bytes in total for the blocks layout, leaving 68 bytes for other things. Sounds better! So IMO theoretically the game is doable, but maybe only with too much flicker (PF and sprites) going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 are the striped blocks mandatory to game play? Would simplifying the puzzle field just a little muck with the game concept too much, in the interest of saving a few bytes here and there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 are the striped blocks mandatory to game play? Only the striped blocks are removable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 then that would be yes. Would there be anyway to indicate that they are removable without taking up those extra bytes? I'm guessing no since they need to be distinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrofan Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 Sorry, but I'm not a programmer. I'm only able to make a concept and some drawings but the coding is a job for someone else. I think if the striped blocks flicker it's very annoying. The sprites (but the player) can flicker if that's necessary (for the fire it looks very good). I had to make the door a sprite because its not everytime at the top (what I think first). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Sorry, but I'm not a programmer. I'm only able to make a concept and some drawings but the coding is a job for someone else. bah, you could do it! Some of the objects sprites would probably have to flicker anyway, but without using the flickering block shortcut its going to be hard to conserve enough RAM to get all of the other stuff in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 bah, you could do it! Probably more likely than anybody finding the time to program it instead. Well, maybe in a few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrofan Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 I haven't found a programmer for this project. For me it's nothing to do for this game now. If someone want to do something with the graphics or ideas, please contact me. Bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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