CGE 2004 in SAN JOSE August 21 & 22

[Atari Rescue Group]

Has this been posted elsewhere? CGE 2004 will be in San Jose on the 21st and 22nd of August.

 

I just saw it on the CGE site.

 

http://www.cgexpo.com/

[Dan Iacovelli]

it's been posted on DP mostly, as well as some other places like ign and G4tv.com

[Curt Vendel]

The Park Hill Convention Center (SJCC) is a nice place, I've been there for two Vintage Computer Festivals and one California Extreme. Its a little industrial looking inside, but for setting up shows like CGE, AGE, PC5 and such, its got the right amount of space, plus a few lecture rooms and such... just don't eat from the concession stand (blahhh.....poison!)

 

Its right on the otherside of the Tech Museum and across the street from the MONSTER convention hall of SJCC (You gotta rent like 100K of space over there or they wont even talk to you), there is a ton of cheap parking for those who drive, buses and BART right there, so public transportation is a cinch, good locale. The hotels in the area... well they are overpriced dumps to be honest, so if you can partner up with groups of 4 and go to some of the nicer hotels which are a little pricer, the price can be split up amongst the group.

 

Why isn't the show earlier and with CAX together? Vintage Computer Fest and California Extreme almost always do their shows together and thats computers and coin-ops, doing it with CAX (game consoles and coinops) would'be been a great combo. Most of the local coin-op collectors bring their stuff out for CAX and I don't know how many are going to feel about bringing their stuff out for one show and then have to haul it out again a week later for another?

 

 

Curt

[Snider-man]

Why isn't the show earlier and with CAX together?   Vintage Computer Fest and California Extreme almost always do their shows together and thats computers and coin-ops, doing it with CAX (game consoles and coinops) would'be been a great combo.      Most of the local coin-op collectors bring their stuff out for CAX and I don't know how many are going to feel about bringing their stuff out for one show and then have to haul it out again a week later for another?

That's covered over at DP, but - long story short - CAX wanted to charge two admissions - one for CGE and one for CAX, rather than one low-priced "combo" admission. ("Welcome to CAX! $25 please. Oh, you want to also go to CGE? That'll be another $25 please.") So, it was no-go.

 

[EDIT: Found the post:]

Re: California Extreme  

 

We have approached them several times regarding teaming up and hosting one big event. They have no interest in doing this. They are afraid of losing some of their revenue since they had a previous bad experience with the Vintage Computer Festival. Our intention was to have one show with one admission price, they wanted attendees to pay $40 admission to them and then $35 admission for us which is totally unacceptable in our eyes. We tried many times to work something out but no such luck.  

[Snider-man]

Double posts suck. As do I.

[Guest cvo]

I'm confused---is the show actually at the SJCC or is it at the The Park Hill Convention Center????

[Snider-man]

SJCC. See link.

 

www.cgexpo.com

[cx2k]

CGE is being held in the actual convention center, the same place where Game Developer Conference is held each year. CAX utilizes the Parkside Hall across the street.

 

As previously stated, we tried to join forces with CAX but they weren't willing to work with us on the level we wanted. It seems they got burned pretty bad by the Vintage Computer Festival people and want no part of joining shows where there's any chance they might not get as much revenue. Unfortunately, I feel that they're not looking at the big picture in regards to attendance. But, that's the way it is. Can't say we didn't try.

 

As for hotels, the beautiful and recently opened San Jose Mariott is actually connected to the Convention Center and is offering us a special rate of $85 per night. All the necessary information will be online this weekend, including registration, hotel, airline and rental car discounts.

 

Hope to see ya there.

 

John

[vcf]

It's disappointing to see these types of comments being thrown around.

 

In September 2001, 4 days before VCF 5.0 and CAX, the World Trade Center in New York City collapsed to the ground. Airports nationwide were shut down, and people were glued to their television sets. The nation effectively shut down.

 

The economy, as it were, was already casting a pall on the VCF. With this added catastrophe, there was no way that the VCF could go on and not result in anything but a severe loss. Three speakers had cancelled out for various reasons, and I'm sure a number of attendees who were planning to attend would have decided to stay home instead to grieve. Some might recall that there were also calls for events being held that weekend to be cancelled in deference to the victims of the attacks.

 

The decision was made to cancel the VCF, while the CAX folks decided that they could better serve their fans by giving them a diversion for the weekend. From what I understand, CAX did well.

 

To hear that CAX was "burned pretty bad" by the VCF is a bit disappointing. I imagine the real grievance stems from an insurance bill from the SJCC. When one rents a portion of any public convention center such as the SJCC, you get a tax bill at the end of the year for the portion of the space you rented and the amount of time you rented it (for smaller events like ours, it's under $200, not insignificant but not onerous either). Since I had begun the contract negotiations to rent Parkside Hall on behalf of VCF and CAX, my address was on the rental agreement, and so the tax bill was sent to my address. By the time tax letters were sent out, my address had changed, and so the letter was bounced back to the SJCC. By the time they looked up my new address and re-sent the bill, the due date had already expired and a late fee was added.

 

I contacted my colleagues at the CAX and explained the issue (or at least I thought I had). It was then that I became aware for the first time that some folks at the CAX were angry with my decision to cancel out. My forwarding the tax bill was apparently received as an insult. Well, fine, but to me the situation was strictly business, and I wasn't going to get into a pissing match. Some at the CAX were of a different mind.

 

I offered to get the late fee taken care of by talking with the folks at the SJCC. However, one person at the CAX bluntly said he would just pay it and end the controversy and that would be that. Well, fine. I could have saved him a few tanks of gas with a couple phone calls, but in my opinion, spite got the better of him as he simply would not listen to anything I was saying. That was the end of the collaboration bewteen the VCF and CAX.

 

You'll notice I kept things very vague with regards to whom I was dealing with at the CAX. This is deliberate of course. Some there are still my friends to this day, and I guess some consider me not their friend, though I harbor no ill will towards anyone, and I'm not going to contribute to petty bickering over dealings that occured years ago. As I've mentioned, it was strictly business, but some chose to make it personal. There's nothing I can do about that. But I won't stand by and let misinformation tarnish the name of the Vintage Computer Festival. We had a tough decision to make and we chose what was in our and our attendees' best interest.

 

If anyone has any further questions, I'll be happy to discuss it with them in private. You can contact me through the Vintage Computer Festival website at http://www.vintage.org.

 

Thanks.

[cx2k]

Whoops, didn't mean to make VCF the bad guy here.

 

I don't know the details of what happened, rather I'm just repeating the "we got burned by VCF" line that was told to me repeatedly by CAX as the reason they were not willing to work together.

 

John

[caextreme.org]

In light of recent discussion group postings regarding California

Extreme and the Classic Gaming Expo, a few words of clarification

are needed. While I am out of touch with the climate and decorum

in discussion groups, I was concerned with the words used to

discuss such business in a public forum. I appreciate frank

discussion, however when incomplete or apocryphal statements

are made or people are publicly disparaged without compelling

reason, a more complete understanding must be brought to light.

 

I'll try to make a "long story" short, but not so short as to

give a misleading picture.

 

To quote John (cx2k) from Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:21 pm

(http://www.atariage.com/forums)

"As previously stated, we tried to join forces with CAX but they weren't willing to work with us on the level we wanted. It seems they got burned pretty bad by the Vintage Computer Festival people and want no part of joining shows where there's any chance they might not get as much revenue."

 

and from John (cx2k) Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:59 pm

(http://www.digitpress.com/forum)

"We have approached them several times regarding teaming up and hosting one big event. They have no interest in doing this. They are afraid of losing some of their revenue since they had a previous bad experience with the Vintage Computer Festival. Our intention was to have one show with one admission price, they wanted attendees to pay $40 admission to them and then $35 admission for us which is totally unacceptable in our eyes. We tried many times to work something out but no such luck."

 

It is unfortunate that John has chosen to stress questionable

points and leave out relevant facts. Months ago, John called

me on the telephone a couple of times to discuss the possibility

of connecting CGE and CA Extreme. I liked the idea of convenience

for attendees (although there barely seems to be enough time in

a weekend for ONE show) but indicated that a formal combination

of the two shows would bring a lot of problems. It was suggested

that all the convenience could be had by locating the shows

next to each other on the same weekend. John advocated a single

admission price, but that seemed to the Extreme staff a risky

prospect. I suggested it would be difficult to determine a way

to allocate any "combined" revenues that would be likely to

end up "fair", and that any rules would need to be established

in advance, that's just good sense. After asking the advice of

our entire staff and some savvy friends, no one had a good way

to set this up. If the shows were run at a profit, some risk

could be taken in transferring revenue between shows, but CAX

budget is run out of pocket, and to date no personal profit

has been made, with all revenue going to cover show expenses.

It seemed clear that a combined admission equal to the current

single show price, which John seemed to advocate, could not

possibly cover the costs of both shows. A higher price was then

considered. Our concern was that some show attendees would have

little interest in the other show. For example, many Extreme

attendees are pinball fans with no interest in video games,

coin-operated or home console. It seemed unreasonable to ask

such people to be compelled to pay more, regardless of

their range of interest. We suggested offering a $10 evening

discount for attendees of both shows. That would make full

admission to CGE and Saturday Night at CA Extreme $35+$15=$50,

adding Sunday at CA Extreme bringing the total to $65. Those

numbers seem fair, and are in the ballpark of what Chris

(vectrexer) Posted on: Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:52 pm at

http://www.digitpress.com/forum as a suggestion.

 

As to the combined show location, in our early conversations,

I described our venue to John. The space in Parkside that we

don't use was not to John's liking - it was too small and

could not accommodate a separate museum room. I suggested they

look into the Civic Auditorium, which is just across

the plaza from our hall, and was available the same weekend.

Apparently it didn't suit their purposes. John did not

suggest any other venue.

 

The following quotes from email I had sent to John support

this view:

 

A quote from a private email from me to John on January 23, 2004:

"We are not

in a position for a formal merge of the shows, but are fine with

CGE sharing the weekend. When I last spoke with the SJCC, I

was told the Civic Auditorium, which is directly across the small

parking plaza from the Parkside Hall which we use, was available.

Use of the facility should be arranged with SJCC soon if it is

desired."

 

and a quote from a private email from me to John on January 27, 2004:

"We can probably offer something like a $10 discount for those with

a CGE badge after 6 PM on Saturday or something like that. If we

end up neighbors, we can check on details."

 

Again, it could be my lack of familiarity with the tone of the

web site communications, but I don't understand why John felt

it necessary to post such unfriendly words. Sellam of VCF

apparently objected to the posts as well, and felt compelled

to respond. For the record, Sellam and I are on good

speaking terms, and although the post clearly had the

potential to stir up a fight, we easily discussed the issues

over the phone and there is no problem between us.

The specific discussion of VCF with CGE had consisted of

examples of how difficulties arose in combining the shows

(over discounted combined admission, for example) and that

the experience had given us a lesson in caution, and that

combining shows would require careful detailed agreements

ahead of time. An example of the discussion comes from

email I sent John on January 23: (in the past when we)

" ... tried to closely partner with another group or

organization, the result has been much extra work, risk,

and loss to CA Extreme, with little to no actual benefit to

either the organization or our supporters or attendees."

The purpose was to make it clear to John that what he seemed

to want, a loose agreement on how to combine the shows, was

not possible. To be clear, the 2000 show combined

with VCF did have benefits for CA Extreme, but the inherent

difficulties make it undesirable to combine the two again.

I was shocked that such private conversations had been

turned into such an unfortunate public message.

 

I hope this message clears up a few things, and quiets down any

ill feelings rather than stirring up any new ones. I hope for

the success of all the shows - CGE, VCF, and CA Extreme make

up a solid group covering related, wonderful genres, but there

is no need for conflict among a natural complimentary set.

 

For the Extreme Team, Happy Gaming,

Ken Chaney

[Mark Wolfe]

dis·cre·tion (d-skrshn) n.

 

1. The quality of being discreet; circumspection.

2. Ability or power to decide responsibly.

 

 

It's truly sad when people who espouse community, family and group ethics in their mission statements, time and time again prove that they are doing nothing more than paying lip service to an ideal while practicing something altogether different behind the scenes and between the lines.

 

How many times have personal e-mails, phone calls and private internet discussions been used as fodder for certain people to bend public sympathy or focus towards them? Is it out of sheer ignorance? It seems, to me at least, from the veracity and ubiquity of the rabble that it is far more sinister.

 

I have a question... why isn't CGE being held in Las Vegas again? Were I to venture a guess [or tell the facts as I know them] it would most likely take on a similar tone as a typical post found over at DP, but it is far beneath my dignity to stoop to the same level as those who spew forth bile laden rhetoric like a fat, drunk high roller who ate some bad shrimp at the buffet.

 

Forum threads that read like soap opera plots are becoming more common with this crew and I think it's time people put their foot down and said "ENOUGH"!

 

Some people need to take a crash course in decorum, and fast!

 

 

-shocked and awed[/b]

[Scooterb23]

Well, I actually was planning on doing the PC5 thing, since I had that weekend off, and nothing to do...but Ruddy's ties to PC5, and his constant badmouthing of my friends at DP have made me think my money could be spent better elsewhere.

 

 

dis·cre·tion (d-skrshn) n.  

 

1. The quality of being discreet; circumspection.  

2. Ability or power to decide responsibly.  

 

 

It's truly sad when people who espouse community, family and group ethics in their mission statements, time and time again prove that they are doing nothing more than paying lip service to an ideal while practicing something altogether different behind the scenes and between the lines.  

 

How many times have personal e-mails, phone calls and private internet discussions been used as fodder for certain people to bend public sympathy or focus towards them? Is it out of sheer ignorance? It seems, to me at least, from the veracity and ubiquity of the rabble that it is far more sinister.  

 

I have a question... why isn't CGE being held in Las Vegas again? Were I to venture a guess [or tell the facts as I know them] it would most likely take on a similar tone as a typical post found over at DP, but it is far beneath my dignity to stoop to the same level as those who spew forth bile laden rhetoric like a fat, drunk high roller who ate some bad shrimp at the buffet.  

 

Forum threads that read like soap opera plots are becoming more common with this crew and I think it's time people put their foot down and said "ENOUGH"!  

 

Some people need to take a crash course in decorum, and fast!

[Albert]

I can understand why this is a touchy subject for Ruddygore, as misinformation was posted about PhillyClassic by one of the CGE organizers (specifically, that someone "knew for a fact" about planned changes for PC5 that were not true and which shed PC5 in a bad light).

 

I do not want to see a flamewar evolve on this subject, so I'm locking this thread now before it gets out of hand.

 

..Al