Albert Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Neat picture, thanks for posting it. Zoom in a bit more and you'll be able to just read the bits directly! ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Franzman Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Just thought everyone would get a kick out of this. This is a picture of the actual Meltdown EPROM. To give some scale to the picture, that big black needle is actually a microscopic probe. The EPROM is still being looked at, hopefully I'll have some new information soon. Not wanting to be a party pooper or anything, but with magnification like that it should have been immediately obvious (and you would have already told us) if the problem was something as simple as a disconnected bond wire. So I'm betting it's more serious than that, possibly beyond repair unless you have access to more sophisticated equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehenciak Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Not wanting to be a party pooper or anything, but with magnification like that it should have been immediately obvious (and you would have already told us) if the problem was something as simple as a disconnected bond wire. So I'm betting it's more serious than that, possibly beyond repair unless you have access to more sophisticated equipment. icon_sad.gif While this is most definately true, I'm quite sure the person debugging the chip may have noticed a spike in current consumption when reading the lower/upper bank if there was some fault beyond the bond wire (i.e. an address pin had a blown driver). These types of fauls almost always result in a short circuit if destroyed. If memory serves, at least 2K of the 4K can be read, but the read provides only the lower or upper page. I think a bond wire problem would have been known early on. Assuming the address pin driver is blown such that the address read is always low/high, you might be able to lay down a microprobe on the metal beyond the driver by blowing the passivation and pulling that line low/high and read out the remaining contents of the memory. Based on the picutre provided, the optics alone lead me to believe the person doing this has access to a little more equipment than just a fancy microprobe station !!! He has to have a camera attached to that thing which, in turn, means that this is one of those big-bucks probing stations. Moreover, the quality of the picture is awesome despite the fact that the chip is probably designed in a 1 or 2u process which is easier to see with a scope. I can zoom into the JPG and still make out stuff ! Overall, seeing that you can read a 2K chunk of the contents consistantly is a good sign that the rest of the data is intact. As long as the control logic and address decoding still work (which it should based on previous posts), there a great chance the data can be extracted. I'll bet a few bucks that the input protection circuit on the high-order address line crapped the bed ... while not easy to work around, I don't believe that it cannot be done seeing that the "surgeon" has some killer equipment available ! Hopefully the person doing this rework has access to a FIB machine to short out a potential blown input driver ! Those are fun to play with (one or two times....after that, your eyes go wonky) ! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 There are still places he cannot read without grinding into the EPROM, which is the next step. The problem is most likely there. Not wanting to be a party pooper or anything Then don't... Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolt Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 How's this going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Neat picture, thanks for posting it. Zoom in a bit more and you'll be able to just read the bits directly! 816327[/snapback] This is an interesting thread. Kind of like a high-tech neo-archaeology. But I wonder if Al has a point there... Is it actually possible to determine which bits are zeros and which are ones by visual inspection? If so, one could reconstruct the missing 16,384 bits without having to physically repair the chip itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 The chip is back in my hands now, damage to the chip was discovered, but my friend could not repair it. I still havent lost hope though, I am going to send it to a professional friend of mine and hope he can take a look at it (he has access to more equipment and such). When I find anything out I'll let you all know. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbloke Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 i dont understand, if the game is available then why all this effort to get the data off of it? sounds like a lost cause at this point if the chip is damaged. might be best to just right it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicgamingguy Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Here's what you do next time you're in that store.... Grab a whole lot of those carts and take them up there to that register and claim "Just these...". Just as he's giving you the final price...yell out..."Wait a sec...I forgot something....". Go pick up several other items and bring those back. "Whew! I almost forgot about these." you'll exclaim. Again, wait until he has it rung up and it telling you the final price. Then with a straight face, look the guy straight in the eye and inform him "Sorry, I can't purchase these. I can't get them for $1 elsewhere.". Promptly turn around and leave. Cap 667738[/snapback] Hahaha!! That's a good one. I agree with everyone about the jack-up of the price to try and turn a major profit. This guy deserves to be tar and feathered...better yet, honey, a shovel, and a large nest of fire ants nearby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 i dont understand, if the game is available then why all this effort to get the data off of it? sounds like a lost cause at this point if the chip is damaged. might be best to just right it off 869764[/snapback] The game has been made available, but the one on this EPROM appears to be different. It is believed that this one is a WIP version of the game, and I would like to retrieve it. Why all the effort? Why not? Why write it off when it might still be possible to retrieve the data? I'll admit that because the complete version is out there, the need for this version is less pressing, but it would still be nice to have. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The game has been made available, but the one on this EPROM appears to be different. It is believed that this one is a WIP version of the game, and I would like to retrieve it. Why all the effort? Why not? Why write it off when it might still be possible to retrieve the data? I'll admit that because the complete version is out there, the need for this version is less pressing, but it would still be nice to have. Tempest As a Prototype Historian it's your job to save this one. There is no argueing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoscott Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Wow! I just read all 18 pages . What an adventure . Neoscott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrocon Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 "Wow! I just read all 18 pages . What an adventure . Neoscott" If worse comes to worse Tempest you should package this thread up as a mini-novella and sell it. It is really quite a riveting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Glad to hear you found the damage. Good luck on bringing this one back to life, it would be awesome to see the WIP of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelman66 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Holy crap. what a marathon. Just read all 18 pages.... I definitely think you must do what you can to complete this task. I love the history of such things. Too bad that greedy brute mishandled it so badly... And he claims to know about value? Evidently not. Maybe this bizarre tale has restored some value to the cart, especially if it does turn out to be a different WIP. I am sure that it is possible to get the data. The problem is obviously accessing the right people and equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Charles Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 So what happened. Was Tempest able to retrieve all of the information? Was the Slimey Store Owner tarred and feathered for wrecking the cart? Did the bum ever get his cut aside from the 25 cents the store owner gave him? Has anyone bought anything Atari related from the store since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedEye Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I went to a really great party that the store owner threw. Does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Charles Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Was he tarred and feathered at that point? And yes it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Was he tarred and feathered at that point? And yes it counts. 925196[/snapback] Since you don't know the full story of what happened, please stop making unhelpful comments and digging up old posts without anything useful to contribute. Thank You - The Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Any news on this prototype Tempest? Still curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Charles Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I read the entire post as it was unfolding(all 18 pages) and it was pretty evident how the store owner handled things. A lot of people agreed. But that's not why I dug up the old post. My reason for the post was to find out if you got the cart working yet. Did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Any news on this prototype Tempest? Still curious... 925253[/snapback] Not yet. I've been busy and and the people who might be able to help me have been busy so... When I find anything out I'll let you all know. Really, I promise I will. I have an offer to read the chip by professionals. If they can't do it, then it is truly dead. But this will take a bit to work out the details. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Charles Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 (edited) If you look at the amount of views this post has had, it has to have the highest views in Atari Age history. Will it hit the 20,000 Mark? If you haven't read this post from the beginning, Do so now!!! You'll be glad you did. Edited September 5, 2005 by Atari Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Really, I promise I will. I have an offer to read the chip by professionals. If they can't do it, then it is truly dead. But this will take a bit to work out the details. Could you post the best results you've got from reading it so far? A5 is stuck, right? Is it high or low? An analysis of what's there wouldn't yield a playable game, but it might offer some clues as to whether this proto was earlier or later than the ROM that's been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Really, I promise I will. I have an offer to read the chip by professionals. If they can't do it, then it is truly dead. But this will take a bit to work out the details. Could you post the best results you've got from reading it so far? A5 is stuck, right? Is it high or low? An analysis of what's there wouldn't yield a playable game, but it might offer some clues as to whether this proto was earlier or later than the ROM that's been released. 925819[/snapback] The game is an earlier version. There may be more problems than just the A5 line, there may be some damage to the EPROM as well. If this is going to be saved it needs to go to a professional, and that's just where it's going. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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