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Tales of the Atari Era...


opcode

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if you have e.t. in the game he should use headbutt attack, and 'ouch' where he touches you like in the movie.. well, instead of healing, you're hurt. thus the 'owwwwch'.

 

:lolblue: :lolblue: Now that's funny!

 

Characters will could use:

 

- The Yar (can shot energy pulses)

- Qotile (can change to Swirl form)

- Dragons, bat (can stell itens) and the Dot from Adventure (dot can use spear)

- E.T. (uses headbutt attack)

- Indiana Jones? (whip)

- Superman

- The eye, ghost, bat and tarantula from haunted house

- coyboys from outlaw

- maybe swordquest and players from basketball

- Vehicles? from Asteroids, breakout, combat and indy500.

 

And of course we have a lot of cool characters from Activision, Imagic and arcade games...

 

I think it would be fun to start programming this mini-game.... I will do that. Maybe I am able to have something running in two months or so... :)

 

Eduardo

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A character can have 3 types of moves:

 

- Normal Attack (plain attack)

- Defensive move (can be individual or coletive, like, E.t. can levitate to dodge a attack, while the Yar can activate its neutral zone and protect the whole team)

- Special technique (uses TP, technique points): can be a attack move, like Qotile ability to change to Swirl, or can be a defensive skill, like E.t.'s ability to heal himself or his team mates. A character can have more than a special technique, or can learn a new technique after reaching a higher experience level.

 

Teams are formed with up to 3 characters, and all the characters will be on screen at the same time. So when attacking the player will need to choose a target for each character.

 

Eduardo

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I just sent Opcode a ton of ideas for the RPG... we'll see what he thinks of them.

 

Now, the way this was described to me was that instead of battles, the game would offer mini-games that you would have to complete, and could come back to later once they've been finished. I think that's a better approach than generic RPG battles, or resource-hungry fist fights. It would also lend credibility to the storyline... if this game is intended as a tribute to classic video games, they should define the gameplay, just as much as the mini-games had in Wario Ware.

 

JR

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Well, the battle thing above is in fact a mini-game itsef. Halfway in the game, your character will get a nice Cosmos system. With this new system he will be able to download (or unlock) new digital characters everytime he beats a mini-game. It would be a nice incentive to keep playing mini-games, cause probably the player will want all digital characters before the game ends. Also it's a good way to resolve conflict between the main character and his rivals in the game. I will try to don't make it the "core" mini-game in the game, but I still think it is an interesting option.

Just think, in real life an average videogame player don't play every game out there, and there are even a few he plays once then never touches again.

Now here things are more complicated. I can't program 200 mini-games and give player the option to play just those he felt attracted for. I have limited resources, so the number of games will be limited, probably around 40 or so, so it's important to incentive the player to play all games. Of course he is going to have his favourites, but it's another story.

Beside, in real life you have other activities to keep you busy beside playing videogames (right?... :ponder: ;) ), well so it'll be the same here. I mean, it isn't exactly Warioware, I don't want to just throw lots of mini-games on the player, I want to give him something more. A bit of that social interaction found in Animal Crossing would be cool, even if the whole "city" (where your character lives in) will talk mostly about videogames.

I don't want it to be like, "look, here are 40 mini-games, play those you like". It isn't a "game compilation". Each game needs to be special, from some point of view, so NPCs will talk about them, you will find significance about each one. And the digital characters things can help here. Even if you don't want to keep playing the "battle mini-game", you will probably want to collect all digital characters. In the worst case they will represent trophies.

And I also don't want your character be limited to just play games at home, then go to play in arcades, then go back to play at home. It wasn't the way things worked when we were kids (right?... :ponder: ;) ). Well, this micro universe where your character lives need to offer other activities, even if to the player they will be all mini-games. So your character can go play baseball, or participate on a nice bike race, things like that. And NPCs will be very important here to help creat antecipation for those things.

 

Ouch, I think I wrote a lot already.... Enough!

 

Eduardo

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I think you shouldn't use Superman, ET, Indiana Jones or any other film characters. That blows your whole point about rubbing up against Atari's copyrights. There are plenty of characters left to exploit.

 

Yep, I know... In fact I was thinking... An example would probably work better then a lot of explanation:

 

Lets get the Adventure game. Lets suppose I am going to replicate that game inside "Tales...". Well, don't you agree we have already played Adventure to death? So lets suppose I decide to change it a bit. But if it changes, why should I still call it Adventure?

 

What I am trying to find here is a good compromise point between classic gaming homage, copyright infringement and just good gameplay. Maybe if I keep the characters and change the gameplay... And how about the original game names? :ponder:

 

That's funny, cause when I am porting a game for the CV, I am challenged to make it as close to the original as possible. I will use all machine resources to try reaching my goal. And people will be interested mosty because they want a good version of their favourite arcade game done for your favourite console. Motivations aren't the same with "Tales...". I am not after arcade perfect ports here, cause it would mean this game would take forever to be programmed. We need to be realistic about it. But if I am not aiming for accurated ports, why should I try to replicate the original gameplay at all. People would just say, "man, that is a bad tentative to port Frogger". Instead I would change gameplay a bit, maybe add a few new elements, things which would work well with the CV hardware and would be easier to implement. But then should I keep the original name?

I think Jess already realised this game is broader than just Atari itself, it is about the Atari era, which goes from the beginnings of the videogame industry till the big crash. I want all the relevant events to be represented here, all the relevant developments. It's time to decide if those events and developments will be represented in a literal or metaphoric way.

 

Opinions, suggestions, good points?

 

Eduardo

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Lets get the Adventure game. Lets suppose I am going to replicate that game inside "Tales...". Well, don't you agree we have already played Adventure to death? So lets suppose I decide to change it a bit.

How about a maze that spells f*** Infogrames! :)

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Lets get the Adventure game. Lets suppose I am going to replicate that game inside "Tales...". Well, don't you agree we have already played Adventure to death? So lets suppose I decide to change it a bit.

How about a maze that spells f*** Infogrames! :)

 

Hehe...Nice idea. You see, perhaps things like that would work better than plain copyright infrigement. There is so much space to poke fun on all people who helped to ruin the good old Atari name, like Infogrames or the Tramiel family... ;)

And who knows where we could use the Mindlink in the game? :D

 

Eduardo

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I personally think that Infogrames should be referred to as "Eiffelgames" in the game. It's close enough to the actual name so that people will know who you're talking about, but not SO close that it invites a lawsuit. Also, for the logo you could take a Fuji and draw horizontal lines through the base, making it look just like the Eiffel Tower. What do you guys think?

 

JR

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UPDATE:

 

I finished the menu system. It's now displaying options, controling the cursor and returning the selected option number. It's very modular, and 100% ASM, so it's really fast.

I am creating a small demo and will post here later today... :)

 

Eduardo

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  • 1 year later...

Ooops.. I've actually started a very similar project for the 2600 as my first game. "Atari Misfit Melee"

 

A sort of platform 1 on 1 kind of like the Wonderswan One Piece or Digimon fighting games with Atari misfits.

 

Characters will include a constantly flickering pacman ghost, Custer, Donkey "Wrong"..

 

For special moves the Beat 'em and eat 'em guy will help Custer out.. ET will push you don't a pit. etc..

 

I've not done any of the characters yet, just finishing up the fighting system :)

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  • 7 months later...

When opcode told me about this thread, my first reaction after reading all the posts was that I shouldn't contribute anything to it. It's the kind of game concept where everyone can have his/her own vision of the gameplay mechanics, and it's easy to step in and corrupt opcode's vision of his game, which is something I really don't want to do.

 

But after giving it some thought, there are a few things I can say, in the form of simple comments:

 

1) The game should gave an ultimate goal. It might be enticing to create a sandbox-type game with open-ended gameplay, but people will get tired of the game quickly unless there's a main goal that requires the prolonged participation of the player, and pushes the player into exploring and experiencing everything that the game has to offer. Would Animal Crossing (on the Game Cube) have been such a hit if it didn't have the collectible NES games? Completing the collection of NES stuff was what pushed a lot of players into persevering with the game.

 

2) A game of this type requires some way of saving the player's progress. However, unless there's an easy and cheap way to include a battery chip on a PCB inside a ColecoVision cart, the only real option is to use a password system. This is not as bad as it sounds, because the CV has a numeric keypad. Inputing a series of numbers is easy and most CV fans won't find it that difficult to accept, especially in a homebrew title.

 

3) Using actual Atari-related icons, like the Qotile, is a bad idea IMHO. Not only is the number of truly recognizable, non-arcade game characters rather limited (even on the 2600), but there's also something to be said for true creativity in the design of such characters. Nintendo did it with numerous Pokemon games, so I don't see why it couldn't be done in this game too. On the other hand, if well-known arcade characters are included - with total disregard for copyrights and trademarks - then this game wouldn't just be a game, it would be a vibrant act of media activism: Gamers would love it, game companies would not be amused, and it would easely become symbolic candy for the media, both on and off the internet. I may be over-dramatizing the issue, but still, you never know how the rest of the world is going to react. And you have to ask yourself what kind of response you're really looking for (lawyers aside) when doing a game like this. That's really the point I'm trying to make.

 

There is a way to get the best of everything, however: Let the player make his/her own character(s) via an in-game sprite editor! If he/she wants to draw a Qotile, Pac-Man, Mario, Peter Pepper, Pitfall Harry, or whatever else, the player can do it on his/her own within the limits of a 16x16 sprite grid, with up to two colours (not including transparent pixels). Then the player can take his/her character creation and level it up by playing mini-games! Just an idea... :D

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1) The game should gave an ultimate goal. It might be enticing to create a sandbox-type game with open-ended gameplay, but people will get tired of the game quickly unless there's a main goal that requires the prolonged participation of the player, and pushes the player into exploring and experiencing everything that the game has to offer. Would Animal Crossing (on the Game Cube) have been such a hit if it didn't have the collectible NES games? Completing the collection of NES stuff was what pushed a lot of players into persevering with the game.
It is true with Tales (or whatever we end calling it) too, since not all game elements will be available from the start. My main objective with Tales is to archive an emotional connection between the player and the game, using a kind of storytelling which would bring back nostalgic memories from the late 70s, early 80s, but without using specific events or characters from that time. It is because not everyone shares the same memories, and people living in different countries experienced different point-of-views of history. So the game needs to be generic enough to connect to all those people. That will be our greatest challenge, to archive emotional connection with as many players as possible.

But back to your point, Tales will have a story which will unfold as players play it. Not exactly a story, because it will be an open-ended game, but the game world will change with time. Players will be watching changes in game industry, from its birth to its fall. Not just that, but mainly that.

So the game start with the player first contact with videogames and "ends" when the game industry goes down, though the player can keep playing for as long as he/she wants.

So the game starts with just one arcade game, and by the time the industry crashes the player will have access to dozen games, both arcade and home games. Some games will be harder to get than other and interacting with other NPCs will be very important to keep you informed, and will increase your chances to get some games. To force the player to play all games, I will create several collectible items which can just be earned if you reach some specific score with each game. For example, characters for the Cosmos system would be earned beating some games.

I hope those additional items and toys will help increasing the game longevity.

 

2) A game of this type requires some way of saving the player's progress. However, unless there's an easy and cheap way to include a battery chip on a PCB inside a ColecoVision cart, the only real option is to use a password system. This is not as bad as it sounds, because the CV has a numeric keypad. Inputing a series of numbers is easy and most CV fans won't find it that difficult to accept, especially in a homebrew title.

 

I am still investigating about that... :)

 

3) Using actual Atari-related icons, like the Qotile, is a bad idea IMHO. Not only is the number of truly recognizable, non-arcade game characters rather limited (even on the 2600), but there's also something to be said for true creativity in the design of such characters. Nintendo did it with numerous Pokemon games, so I don't see why it couldn't be done in this game too. On the other hand, if well-known arcade characters are included - with total disregard for copyrights and trademarks - then this game wouldn't just be a game, it would be a vibrant act of media activism: Gamers would love it, game companies would not be amused, and it would easely become symbolic candy for the media, both on and off the internet. I may be over-dramatizing the issue, but still, you never know how the rest of the world is going to react. And you have to ask yourself what kind of response you're really looking for (lawyers aside) when doing a game like this. That's really the point I'm trying to make.
You're right. In the end I don't think that using existing videogames character is such a good idea. Besides, why play that you have already played to death? I think it's more interesting to have new games, even if some of then are derivative from existing games. I think some specific references now and then would be fun though. :)

 

There is a way to get the best of everything, however: Let the player make his/her own character(s) via an in-game sprite editor! If he/she wants to draw a Qotile, Pac-Man, Mario, Peter Pepper, Pitfall Harry, or whatever else, the player can do it on his/her own within the limits of a 16x16 sprite grid, with up to two colours (not including transparent pixels). Then the player can take his/her character creation and level it up by playing mini-games! Just an idea... :D

 

That's an interesting idea indeed. Let’s see if we have the space to include it. :)

 

Eduardo Mello

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Thinking a bit more about it, I guess we could have from 30 to 40 mini games with Tales.

In order to save memory (I am planning to use a 2Mbit EPROM, or 256KB), I am considering defining 4 basic "virtual systems" under which we will develop games. This way I can share a lot of common routines. Here are the systems:

 

System 1 - arcade - 160x128 - Just two colors per scanline. No sprites. Screen is bitmapped and can use movable shapes (just like Space Invaders, for example)

System 2 - arcade - 160x128 - Video is like the real CV, 2 colors per tile line. 32 sprites on screen, you can combine sprites for more colorful objects. Screen is tile based, so don't use movable shapes. Basically it's the CV at full power.

System 3 - home - 80x128 - Just two colors for background graphics. 4 sprites on screen, sprite is 8x16 (half horizontal resolution). Screen is framebuffer, but you can't use movable shapes, though some background animation is allowed.

System 4 - home - 160x128 - Tile based, two colors per tile. 16 sprites on screen, you can combine them, but it isn’t desirable.

 

If someone has any suggestion to better balance the specs above please let me know.

Now I am interested on game ideas. If someone has an interesting game idea and would like to contribute, please let me know. You will be credited for games you created. Drawings are probably the best way to post ideas, but mock-up screenshots are also welcome.

I will work with each game designer when time allows, one game a time till the designer is satisfied with the result, though I reserve the right to choose which games will be implemented and also to cancel games under development if I feel they can't work as expected.

 

And if we can manage to create BasicVision as expected, any submitted game would be implemented first using BV for prototyping, and once approved I could port them to ASM. The above "virtual system" model has the advantage to allow me to work on individual minigames even if I don't have the final main game engine finished.

 

Eduardo

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I started to program the first mini game. It's for system 2. The game is based on an obscure Konami arcade, Sparkie. Player controls a friendly bomb with a long fuse. It walks around a maze and needs to put out the several bonfires, flames and sparks. Bonfires don't move but produce sparks. Flames chase you. Its only weapon is a water splash which is used to put out the enemies. Its need to hit an enemy several times in order to extinguish its fire. If the player's character touch a bonfire or flame, it explodes immediately. If its fuse thouches a spark, flame or bonfire, it starts to burn and the player has a limited time to touch one of the 3 water buckets scattered around the the maze. Wipeout all enemies and go to the next round. From time to time a bonus item will show up in the maze center.

Lets see how much memory this game would require. I think it is possible to archive with just 6KB, 8KB at most.

 

Eduardo

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  • 5 months later...

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