Beef Drop work in progress

[+Mitch]

OK, I finally had some time to test this version out.

I didn't notice any major problems on either the NTSC or PAL version, no blackscreens or weird screen glitches. I did notice a problem when a baddie was right at the top of a ladder and I dropped a piece on them, it would go straight through them. Also, the PAL version still played a little slow, particularly the music seemed slow but the gameplay was also a little slow.

 

I had one small request, any chance that the code for the High Score cart could be added? It would be cool to be able to enter your name in a high score list.

 

Mitch

[kenfused]

I was wondering about the POKEY version myself.  Some observations about this latest build (All observed/played under MESS):

 

1.  'Screetching' sound/noise present through out the game.

It sounds pretty bad in MESS on my PC but sounds much better on the real thing

 

2.  Game seems a little too easy.  Which I believe is a result of the 'enemies' being a little too slow.  For me, this is really evident on Board/Level 3.  On Level/Board 3 in the Arcade version you have *no* chance at beating out the Egg on the left (Have to use a Pepper if you choose that route).  The Egg *will* be on top of you before you can even start to go up the ladder(s).  On the right hand side you can *barely* beat out the Pickle - but you can without using a pepper.  Again, this is on the Arcade version.   With this port I'm half way up the screen before the Egg even starts to make it out to the playfield.

That because it is currently fixed to the easy game setting and speed is mostly synced to the screen so the speed doesn't really ramp up too much

[kenfused]

OK, I finally had some time to test this version out.

I didn't notice any major problems on either the NTSC or PAL version, no blackscreens or weird screen glitches. I did notice a problem when a baddie was right at the top of a ladder and I dropped a piece on them, it would go straight through them.

I have noticed that also and is something I need to look at

Also, the PAL version still played a little slow, particularly the music seemed slow but the gameplay was also a little slow.

The game is currently synced to the screen. Well was, the next version I post will not be.

I had one small request, any chance that the code for the High Score cart could be added? It would be cool to be able to enter your name in a high score list.

I would definately like to do that. I hope I can still do the burger time initial entry but don't know if the HS cart will let you do that. Anyone have a link to the HS cart programming docs, I am sure I seen them somewhere?

[kenfused]

Here is a version fixed to "Expert" for a little more challenge until I get the selection screen going. The game is also now not synced to the display which will probably make it unplayable in MESS. It will probably still slow down a little as their are more enemies.

 

Pokey support will probably return eventually for those that have asked. It will either be a separate build, or auto-detect; not sure yet.

bd7800.zip

[+Mitch]

Anyone have a link to the HS cart programming docs, I am sure I seen them somewhere?

 

Is this the one you were thinking of?

 

Mitch

[SS]

I had one small request, any chance that the code for the High Score cart could be added? It would be cool to be able to enter your name in a high score list.

I would definately like to do that. I hope I can still do the burger time initial entry but don't know if the HS cart will let you do that. Anyone have a link to the HS cart programming docs, I am sure I seen them somewhere?

 

I was thinking the same thing the other day. HSC support would be sweet!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Now it makes sense why you don't want Ken making the cart with a connector for attaching another cart with a Pokey on for pass-thru. Because you want him to also make it compatible with the High-score cart. Hmm...well how many High-Score carts are there to the number of available pokeys?

 

Ken can do what he wants...and if wants to make two separate versions he can. But I think support for the HSC, while cool, isn't needed. However, I guess it would only just be more code added on so it isn't that big a deal. But we can't have the HSC work and have a Pokey passthru also...Unless Ken and the other experts want to devise a 12" tower of plastic that hangs out of your 7800 console when 3 carts are connected together...hehe...

[Trebor]

Now it makes sense why you don't want Ken making the cart with a connector for attaching another cart with a Pokey on for pass-thru. Because you want him to also make it compatible with the High-score cart. Hmm...well how many High-Score carts are there to the number of available pokeys?

 

Yeah, I was pretty taking back from Mitch's strong stance against the pass-thru Pokey cart too, until I read the part about wanting High Score Cart Saver support. However, I find then his reply about reason(s) against the passthru Pokey cart to be interesting:

 

Well, the main reason I don't like passthrough carts is that they are a big pain to use. Not to mention the chances of accidentally bumping the tower and losing your game

 

I guess the passthrough cart is not that big of a pain as long as it is the High Score Saver cart. And the chance of accidentally bumping the tower and losing your game is worth it too, as long as it is the High Score Saver cart.

 

Come on, Mitch...ya could've stated your intentions, or what you would like Burger Ti...I mean Beef Drop to support. For you, High Cart Saver Support takes preference over Pokey Passthru cart. I guess for some of us, the opposite is our preference

 

Additionally, Crossbow makes a good point with '...how many High-Score carts are there to the number of available pokeys?' Food for thought

 

-Trebor

[+Mitch]

OK, I'll confess my real reasons, I want High Score cart support so I can use it on my CC2. And, before you get any ideas, I am planning on buying the real cart.

 

Mitch

 

PS: I still don't like passthrough carts.

[Schmutzpuppe]

Has anyone had screen glitches on NTSC machines?

 

Yes .. see my message above! I do not have a playfield! And the score best score and peppers is garbled!

 

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

I think I have all the weird lockup and screen problems fixed.

This version seems to run perfect.

Good work!!!

[Trebor]

OK, I'll confess my real reasons, I want High Score cart support so I can use it on my CC2.  And, before you get any ideas, I am planning on buying the real cart.

 

Mitch  

 

PS: I still don't like passthrough carts.

 

Ah-ha! Now we know the truth

 

Anyhow, my *real* concern is that a Pokey version isn't 'overlooked' entirely. Piggy-back, Two Versions, Two Carts....whatever. I'm just hoping a finished product with Pokey support comes to fruition.

 

'Anything' for the Atari 7800 would be great. However, the Pokey sound is a *great* and much needed improvement over the standard TIA.

 

-Trebor

[kenfused]

Here is an attempt at POKEY detection. It works on a CC2 if a set the bank type to have a pokey or not. I would be interested how it would act in a pokey if the CC2 didn't actually have a pokey but the pokey bank switch file is chosen. No clue how it would perform on a real cart.

bd7800.zip

[+Mitch]

Well, I dug out the EPROM burner and here are the results (NTSC only): Pokey version plays OK but some of the sounds are missing. TIA version seems to have some minor flickering going on at the start of the first level and has frequent major sound problems.

 

The non-Pokey EPROM board that I used has acted up a bit in the past so I may see if I can dig up another one to confirm with.

 

Mitch

[kenfused]

Added Level selection. Fixed a few audio related problems like channels sometimes getting out of sync.

bd7800.zip

[+Mitch]

I was just going to post that I tried another EPROM cart and another 7800 with the same issues but it looks like Ken beat me.

I'll give this one a try as soon as the EPROM finishes erasing. Figures that I'd only have one spare 27256 on hand at the moment.

 

Mitch

[+Mitch]

OK, I did some testing with the latest version.

TIA version worked at first, then the sound got corrupted, then no sound at all, then it came back and worked for several levels with no problem.

Pokey version would play OK, then some of the sound effects would appear and disappear but the background music always stayed. There was also a high pitched noise that would play for a while instead of the sound effects but the music would continue to play along with it.

 

Mitch

[Trebor]

Unfortunately, the only 'testing' I can do is in MESS. The game just runs too fast to test anything

 

-Trebor

[birdie3]

I have finally tried this (in MESS unfortunately) and I must say that this looks really impressive. I like the font for 'BEEF DROP'. The demo in the attract mode seems a little strange but I'll bet you will tweak that later. I really hope that this is a sign of what is yet to come for new 7800 games.

 

Does anyone know how to slow down MESS to get this .A78 to work at a playable speed?

[+Mitch]

I have finally tried this (in MESS unfortunately) and I must say that this looks really impressive. I like the font for 'BEEF DROP'. The demo in the attract mode seems a little strange but I'll bet you will tweak that later. I really hope that this is a sign of what is yet to come for new 7800 games.

 

Does anyone know how to slow down MESS to get this .A78 to work at a playable speed?

 

It's a bug in MESS, if you are running on a Windows operating system try EMU7800.

 

Mitch

[Trebor]

It's a bug in MESS, if you are running on a Windows operating system try EMU7800.

 

Mitch

 

Really? Do you have any idea what the issue may be? No other 'Retail' game has a 'speed' issue. Not that I'm denying it is true. I'm just curious what Beef Drop does that 'triggers' this bug, since no other game appears to have a speed related problem (Although I *would* like to have Kung-Fu Master running correctly)

 

-Trebor

[+Mitch]

It's a bug in MESS, if you are running on a Windows operating system try EMU7800.

 

Mitch

 

Really? Do you have any idea what the issue may be? No other 'Retail' game has a 'speed' issue. Not that I'm denying it is true. I'm just curious what Beef Drop does that 'triggers' this bug, since no other game appears to have a speed related problem (Although I *would* like to have Kung-Fu Master running correctly)

 

-Trebor

 

I think Ken said it was because the game speed wasn't synced to the video. If you look at the PAL version of Commando in MESS it's seems to have a similar problem.

 

Mitch

[Trebor]

I think Ken said it was because the game speed wasn't synced to the video. If you look at the PAL version of Commando in MESS it's seems to have a similar problem.

Mitch

 

Interesting. So all other PAL games and all NTSC games sync game speed to video. Hmmm... I know that was a challenge for changing difficulty in Beef Drop, as once he thru in the 'Expert' mode - that when it started running too fast.

 

I wonder how other games, like Food Fight and Centipede, for example, compensate for characters running/moving faster with increaded difficulty, without running *too* fast.

 

-Trebor

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Trebor:

 

Ken had to remove the video sync for Beef Drop in order to keep the game speed up on the real hardware. For some reason on a real 7800, if you keep the game video sync'd to the TV, the game will start to slowdown when the enemies get on the screen. So removing the v-sync was the only way to keep the speed up on the real hardware with all the enemies and other elements going on.

 

As for why the increased difficulty created the speed issue. Simple, the versions you were playing in MESS before were fixed on the easy difficulty. But increasing the difficulty changes the speed of the characters and gameplay. This is done by basically accelerating the game itself. This wasn't possible to do for MESS emulation and still have a difficulty option for faster enemies and such.

 

However, Mitch, I am unable to run Emu7800 on my XP Pro system here. Ever since I installed SP2 on it...it now reports Emu7800 as not being a valid windows Executable and then shuts it down. Reinstalling Emu7800 hasn't corrected the problem either. Not sure if it was SP2 that did this specifically, but that is why I first noticed it.

[Trebor]

Trebor:

Ken had to remove the video sync for Beef Drop in order to keep the game speed up on the real hardware. For some reason on a real 7800, if you keep the game video sync'd to the TV, the game will start to slowdown when the enemies get on the screen. So removing the v-sync was the only way to keep the speed up on the real hardware with all the enemies and other elements going on.

 

As for why the increased difficulty created the speed issue. Simple, the versions you were playing in MESS before were fixed on the easy difficulty. But increasing the difficulty changes the speed of the characters and gameplay. This is done by basically accelerating the game itself. This wasn't possible to do for MESS emulation and still have a difficulty option for faster enemies and such.

 

Thanks for the reply, Crossbow. However, I understand all that your wrote. What I don't understand is how come other titles like Centipede and Food Fight, have difficulty selection, with speed increase and decrease depending on your selection, and they run fine under MESS? What 'bug' does Beef Drop trigger that other titles like Centipede and Food Fight don't trigger?

 

Both Centipede and Food Fight can change difficulty selections under MESS, which affects the speed of gameplay. However, it works without a problem under MESS. What does Beef Drop do that triggers this bug? Why do other Atari 7800 titles not trigger this bug or have the same problem? The other titles run fine under MESS regardless of what settings you select. You have a variety of difficulty settings and no problem with MESS and other titles.

 

-Trebor

[kenfused]

It probably could be made to run synced to the video rate with a fair amount of code changes from the original 5200 version, but it may or may not be worth it just to run in emulation.

 

The first verison and 5200 version have a vbi running which updates the screen, handles sound, etc.

 

Using a timer updated in the vbi, I then had a version that use the vbi timing but it was fixed to one overall speed (although there is some coding to change the ratio of chef movements vs enemy movments). It could be made to allow faster speed by sometimes allowing 1 or 2 pixel movements in the appropriate ratios but it require changes to the existing coding.

 

The last version posted and I am still using is relying on the timers in the RIOT which allows for a faster running timer than the VBI. This may not be permanent since I do not know if you are really supposed to be allowed to use them (I know accessing them will slow the CPU probably) It seems to work fine on my 7800 though but MESS must no emulate them since it runs just as fast as the early versions.

 

I think the main problem with MESS, at least in the first case, is it does not yet accurately emulate the system timing or cycles stolen by the video chip. So maybe it it not really a bug.