Yie Ar Kung-Fu A8

[Gunstar]

drac030 is absolutely right. The PAL vs. NTSC OS exists on pre-XL models only (400/800). The XL/XE is a "smart" ROM that detects the actual model and adapts accordingly.

 

You might want however, to patch the ROM if you have the typical ANTIC only PAL modification. The ROM will think it is running on an NTSC computer (because GTIA is NTSC) and will attempt to use the wrong timing. IIRC, the only important aspect affected is tape handling. So probably not worth the hassle if you don’t use tapes. Note that you can't replace the ROM with a standard one, you must patch and make a custom one.

 

Of course that replacing GTIA is much better, but it is not that simple. You can’t just change GTIA. For replacing GTIA you need to replace most (might be the whole) video circuitry, including the color clock crystal. If the video circuitry doesn’t match GTIA, then it will produce the wrong colors (don’t know, you might get not colors at all), disregarding if you TV/Monitor is PAL, NTSC or dual-norm. Obviously it is much simpler to get a whole PAL computer.

 

Look, I have the 32-in-1 OS and it SPECIFICALLY has Rev. A, B, C, and XEGS OS rom version for BOTH PAL AND NTSC and they DO WORK DIFFERENTLY. I only talk about stuff that I KNOW ABOUT. THERE ARE DEFINATELY PAL AND NTSC OS's FOR XL's AND XE's. PERIOD. And you CAN replace the ROMS becuase I do it EVERY DAY with the 32-in-1 OS!!!!! AND it DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! Now maybe it's true that there is very little difference, but there is a difference, and NO, you do not have to "patch" the OS with just the ANTIC PAL modification, you CAN just choose the PAL OS instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you CAN just replace the GTIA without changing the video circuitry, and it DOES have color, and the CORRECT color. I KNOW BECUASE I USE IT ALL THE TIME AND DID THE MODS!!!!!! GET THIS NOW: I have done the mods, I use it all the time, I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND HAVE PROVEN ALL THIS BS ABOVE WRONG!!!!!!

Edited August 24, 2006 by Gunstar

[Bryan]

I'm staring at my unadulterated PAL 800XL motherboard and it has a C061598B ROM soldered in so if there were separate PAL versions, they were not universally used. The XL ROM does check the PAL bit and changes some things at boot up. I don't want to get into a fight over this, but I suspect the PAL ROM images out there may be "forced" PAL ROMs. Maybe if the images were posted, we could see what the differences are.

 

-Bry

[drac030]

Don't worry. These are none (differences) The XL OS does check the hardware it is running on and sets the timings accordingly, no matter how many exclamation marks get produced in this thread in the future I am speaking about unpatched ROMs, of course.

Edited August 24, 2006 by drac030

[Allas]

Form The Atari 8bit FAQ:

 

 

Subject: 7.1) What versions of the Atari Operating System (OS) are there?

 

Most of this section by permission from:

http://www.student.kun.nl/f.offenga/atari.htm or

http://members.chello.nl/taf.offenga/atari.htm

 

Atari 8-bit Operating Systems

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Version 3.3, 6/27/1999.

By Freddy Offenga (taf.offenga [at] chello.nl (replace " [at] " with "@")

 

 

400/800 10kB OS roms

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Rev. TV Date CRC-32 Part Nr(s)

~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A NTSC (?) (?) (?)

A PAL (?) 0x72b3fed4 CO15199, CO15299, CO12399B

B NTSC (?) 0x0e86d61d CO12499B, CO14599B, 12399B

B PAL (?) (?) (?)

 

 

XL/XE 16kB OS roms

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Rev. System Date CRC-32 Part Nr(s)

~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

10 1200XL 10/26/1982 0xc5c11546 CO60616A, CO60617A

11 1200XL 12/23/1982 (?) CO60616B, CO60617B

1 600XL 03/11/1983 0x643bcc98 CO62024

2 XL/XE 05/10/1983 0x1f9cd270 CO61598B

3 800XE 03/01/1985 0x29f133f7 C300717

4 XEGS 05/07/1987 0x1eaf4002 C101687

 

 

(?) This information is missing. If someone can supply this info,

please write me an e-mail.

 

 

NOTES:

The 400/800 O.S's consist of three ROMs (two 4kB and one 2kB).

The 1200XL contains two ROMs for the OS (8k each), XL/XE's use a single

16k ROM and the 16k XEGS OS is stored in a 32k ROM (together with 8k

BASIC and 8k for Missile Command).

 

 

Origins of ROM information

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

400/800 rev.A NTSC Could exist, since the PAL version exists and

rev.A is mentioned in the rev.B source code.

james adds (3/8/01):

Did exist! My parents bought me an Atari 400 w/ 410 back in 1981 for

entertainment when I was badly injured in a motorcycle accident. A

year or so later I paid good money ($40 USD or so?) to have the OS A

upgraded to OS B.

400/800 rev.A PAL All info found in two Atari 400's and Atari 800

ROM module CX801.P

400/800 rev.B NTSC Information from a ROM dump and the rev.B source

listing. The part numbers were listed in the

catalog from 'Best Electronics'. According to

'Mapping the Atari' rev.B ROMs have a 'B' at the

end of the part number, therefore I figure these

part numbers are from rev.B.

400/800 rev.B PAL Could exist, since the NTSC version exists and

there's some conditional PAL/NTSC assembly in

the rev.B source code

1200XL rev.10 PAL/NTSC All info found in an Atari 1200XL. The XL/XE

rev.2 source code refers to it as rev.10.

'Best Electronics' calls it rev.A.

1200XL rev.11 PAL/NTSC Refered to rev.11 by the XL/XE source code.

'Best Electronics' calls it rev.B.

XL/XE rev.1 All info found in an Atari 600XL

XL/XE rev.2 All info found in an Atari 800XL

XL/XE rev.3 All info found in an 800XE

XL/XE rev.4 All info found in an Atari XE Game System

 

 

O.S. Authors and dates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following info is from the Atari XL/XE rev.2 source code.

 

Revision A (400/800)

D.Crane / A.Miller / L.Kaplan / R.Whitehead

 

Revision B (400/800)

Fix several problems.

M.Mahar / R.S.Scheiman

 

Revision 10 (1200XL)

Support 1200XL, add new features.

H.Stewart / L.Winner / R.S.Scheiman /

Y.M.Chen / M.W.Colburn 10/26/82

 

Revision 11 (1200XL)

Fix several problems.

R.S.Scheiman 12/23/82

 

Revision 1 (600XL/800XL)

Support PBI and on-board BASIC.

R.S.Scheiman / R.K.Nordin / Y.M.Chen 03/11/83

 

Revision 2 (600XL/800XL)

Fix several problems.

R.S.Scheiman 05/10/83

Bring closer to coding standard (object unchanged)

R.K.Nordin 11/01/83

 

 

Vapour-ware

~~~~~~~~~~~

The following OS roms originate from rare Atari 8-bit systems.

Since I don't own any of these (unfortunately), I don't have much

information about these roms. Who can help me?

 

I've got two 16K rom dumps from the 1450XLD. Both ID's are rev.3.

The first dated 3/23/1984 comes from the 'Pooldisk Too' CD-ROM

(filename: 1540os3.v0) and the second dated 6/21/1984 was send to

me by Nir Dary (filename: os1450.128). Main differences between

these two are in the first 3K ($C000 - $CBFF).

 

The XL/XE OS rev.3B is from an Atari from Arabia. It's probably based

on rev.3. There are changes in the fonts (Arab characters) and several

patches in the code. More info at:

http://www.savetz.com/vintagecomputers/arabic65xe/

 

Rev. Found in Size CRC-32 Date

~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

3 1450XLD 16kB 0x0d477aa1 3/23/1984

3 1450XLD 16kB 0xd425a9cf 6/21/1984

3B 65XE 16kB 0xf0a236d3 7/21/1984

 

 

References

~~~~~~~~~~

- The modified september Atari 400/800 computer operating system

listing, revision B, ©1982 Atari.

- The Atari O.S. source code rev.2, ©1984 Atari.

- Atari XL addendum Atari home computer system operating system

manual: supplement to Atari 400/800 technical reference notes.

- Best Electronics, catalog of Atari 8-bit parts.

- Mapping the Atari, revised edition, Ian Chadwick, Compute! books

publication, 1985.

 

 

Credits

~~~~~~~

Special thanks to Nir Dary for the rev.2 source code, rom dumps and

the 1200XL. It's in good hands.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More info on what is maybe either the 1985 or 1987 XL/XE OS versions listed

above. From ST*ZMAGAZINE #36, Sept. 1, 1989 (as reprinted in PSAN Nov 89):

by Mark Elliot, Innovative Concepts

The following changes have been incorporated in the 130XE computer.

 

The O.S. has minor changes like:

A) The MEMORY TEST (from SELF TESTS) tests the extra 64K now! (in 4 squares)

B) Also, the MEMORY TEST checks the first 48K over TWICE as fast as before!

C) The KEYBOARD TEST has the F1-F4 keys missing on top. (function keys),

although the code that interprets them is probably there (like XEGS).

D) Also, it types out "COPYRIGHT 1985 ATARI" at the keyboard test, when all

tests are done. (compared to COPYRIGHT 1983 ATARI, before)

E) And, the O.S. chip itself, is on a 27256 EPROM, but only half of it is

used! (comprared to the original, which was on a 16K x 8 ROM, 27128 comp.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Edited August 24, 2006 by Allas

[Rybags]

The differences between PAL and NTSC OS's almost exclusively are limited to cassette timing, keyboard delays, and cassette beep timing.

 

The XL/XE can use the same OS regardless of region.

 

I suspect that the PAL/NTSC XL/XE OS's mentioned for the 31in1, if behaving differently, are probably modded to force the machine to behave as if a PAL or NTSC ANTIC is installed.

[miker]

Back to Yie Ar:

 

The Project is NOT dead!

[Allas]

What do you mean exactly? How is the next change step in developing?

[miker]

Ingame FX (almost done) , maybe "original" title music (almost started) and getting rid of that bug (tebe's cut).

[+CharlieChaplin]

Hmm,

I played the latest release (downloaded from Fandal`s site) and from time to time it crashes. The crash happened "randomly", but always when I had to fight a new opponent. For example, in the first try it crashed at opponent number 3 (right after I had defeated opponent 2, a preview of oponent 3 appeared and then crash boom bang, black screen and nothing). In the next try it crashed at opponent number 4 and in the third and last try it crashed at opponent number 2...

 

Hopefully this is not only happening in my version / on my computer (I always use a real Atari 800XL, equipped with 576kbytes RAM)... greetings - Andreas Magenheimer.

 

P.S.: Tried packing the latest version with Dj Packer, it packed the file version down to 30% of its original size - alas, the dj-packed version did not work anymore afterwards...

[Godzilla]

I really hope some way can be figured to make a cart with ram on it so it can play in a standard xegs (for example,) I've tried this in emu and was really impressed. Getting the title music (now that they know how to make the a8 sound like sid :-) ) would just be the perfect icing on the cake. I LOVED the original c64 title music more than the game :-)

[Allas]

These are improvements could do it:

 

- Enhance the gfx presentation (at least to seems exactly as C64 version, some color are ignoring)

- Replace the music in the gfx presentation with Jarre version (optional, actual sound is good)

- Add sound effect for time bonus

- Last version should run in 128Kb memory (or a XEG cartridge version, or 1Mbit multicart version)

- Fix the problematic bug.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Allas

[miker]

@Allas:

 

ad.1. rather not possible (lack of sprites), but we'll see

 

ad.2. workin' on it "a little"

 

ad.3. will be in next ver. (just added as well as ingame FX)

 

ad.4. possible, but not now

 

ad.5. i wrote about it in my last post

 

also the player-move procedure will be improved (sometimes there are glitches in player-graphics e.g. in stage #2)

Edited September 27, 2006 by miker

[miker]

OK - current progress is:

 

- "Jarre" music is in place

- main bug is (probably) killed, there are minor ones also to rip them out

- the game HAS now ingame FX

- compressing graphics - now 256kB of total memory is needed

- balancing enemies' AI

Edited November 10, 2006 by miker

[twh/f2]

OK - current progress is:

 

- "Jarre" music is in place

- main bug is (probably) killed, there are minor ones also to rip them out

- the game HAS now ingame FX

- compressing graphics - now 256kB of total memory is needed

- balancing enemies' AI

 

Indeed great news.

 

And please PLEASE PLEASE... make it running on the real Atari hardware.

 

\twh

Edited November 10, 2006 by twh/f2

[Wrathchild]

Miker, a question on the extra RAM required.

 

Is the data there just for reference, e.g. graphics - sound etc

or is it dynamically generated and swapped into main memory?

Most code and fixed data can go into banks of a cart and

accessed as required for a little extra effort.

 

Though the programmers probably don't require help as

if they're doing such a title then they're already savvy

enough in my book, but if required I could take a look at

seeing if this can be made into a 48K or 64K cartridge.

That may have already been assessed, so if its not

possible then let us know?

 

Regards,

Mark

Edited November 13, 2006 by Wrathchild

[miker]

Ok, first i'm not a coder. Just musician & tester...

 

Current memory req. is 256 kB and it will be (hopefully) smaller - still some data isn't compressed (eg. enemy animations)... The game switches the banks very often and i don't say it's impossible to put the game on cart, just Vega doens't know much about this medium yet.

 

Meanwhile - this is the latest version.

 

Here are known bugs:

- the game doesn't work good on real stuff - the DL interrupt eats too many cycles (will be fixed)

- on the second stage (STAR) players fighter can "cripple" occasionally

- on the sixth one (CHAIN) the foe's weapon can do "some" mess on screen (e.g. it may appear on the opposite side on the screen)

- sometimes on player one/two-screen there is garbage (workin' on it, too)

- the "lock-up" may still occur, but rather once in a blue moon

 

OK, here are special keys (they're working anytime):

Q - enables immortality

W - disables it

1 - 0 start at stage 1 - 10

 

Remember - this version is for testing, the final verson is not so imment.

 

Please feel free to write comments and happy bug-hunting!

yie.zip

Edited November 13, 2006 by miker

[Allas]

The Jarre music sound different from the original version. Maybe now its a RMT version. However, sounds great.

 

Special effects are nice. Really a masterpiece game that worths to get into a 8Mbit cartridge.

 

Enemies are sprites by software. Is there any chance to get the last enemie to jump across the whole screen as the Arcade game.

[miker]

1. It's MPT (Music Protracker) not RMT

2. Rather not, not in current engine (will not be rather changed)

 

Oh, the first issue is almost dealt with!

Edited November 13, 2006 by miker

[Allas]

Are you the MPT musician from Yie-Ar-Kungfu?

 

Congratulations, the first time Ive heard the music sound different, but after hear the old SID tune and the MPT tune, I notice the MPT version have the better quality. Really good job!

[miker]

@Allas:

 

Yes, i am. Thanks!

 

Ok, here's version that works on real Atari. Requirements as above.

yiekung.zip

[emkay]

Are you the MPT musician from Yie-Ar-Kungfu?

 

Congratulations, the first time Ive heard the music sound different, but after hear the old SID tune and the MPT tune, I notice the MPT version have the better quality. Really good job!

 

 

Yes, it's an improvement. It's a very good compromise also.

But, the "special-Galway-flair" that was kept in the SID emulation, is gone now.

[Cybergoth]

Is there any special reason why this is based on the C64 version?

[vega]

Is there any special reason why this is based on the C64 version?

 

Yes, the reason is that the conversion from C64 is simpler than other platform. (at least for me)

Edited November 14, 2006 by vega

[Cybergoth]

Is there any special reason why this is based on the C64 version?

Yes, the reason is that the conversion from C64 is simpler than other platform. (at least for me)

 

Because of the 6510 code or the whole platform? If it were just for the CPU, porting the NES version would probably have been even simpler, or?

[Wrathchild]

Not really, the NES's tile based screen approach means the algorithms for drawing a screen tend to get thought out differently wheras the C64 is more similar to the A8, or easier to map across (as I've found with porting bits of Elite/Sentinel/Bard's Tale/Barbarian/World Class Leaderboard).

 

Also the NES screen rez is different and the aspect ratio doesn't port 1:1 to the A8. Have a look at:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=990960

 

Regards,

Mark

Edited November 14, 2006 by Wrathchild