Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Oh... wouldn't a NES tile just equal a character on the A8? I thought more about other things being simpler: No OS to worry about on the NES, only 8K RAM, no interrupts, almost the same clock speed and the NES being limited to 4 sprites on a scanline as well. Also, the NES version of Yie Ar Kung Fu is only 24K, so I was under the impression it would be pretty straightforward to port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 If your interested, a little bit of info at the end of this thread: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=741366 In the sources the 'characters.c' file has some detail taken from a NES FAQ about the character data layout. The NES video hardware handles the resolving of the tiles, more advanced than say the Antic 4 mode, and handles 8*8 instead of our 4*8, so the the Atari needs a 'software' tile engine to put the correct characters into the screen (character) RAM to emulate this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The NES video hardware handles the resolving of the tiles, more advanced than say the Antic 4 mode, and handles 8*8 instead of our 4*8, so the the Atari needs a 'software' tile engine to put the correct characters into the screen (character) RAM to emulate this. Ain't the 8*8 vs. 4*8 difference coming from the A8 using double width pixels in multicolor mode? So I'd assume to match the aspect ratio, the 8*8 tiles would have to be resized to 4*8, one by one, jumping the gun and losing the resolution. That is, unless the A8 has something comparable to C64 FLI trickery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Not from the multicolor as the NES is working the same way, only the way bits are paired to make the color differs. The aspect ratio errors come from the NES displaying 256x224 pixels (240 lines for PAL) in the same area the A8 displays 160x200. Hence the little FF3j guys in my Avatar look a little 'squattier' when compared with the originals. Edited November 14, 2006 by Wrathchild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ok, I understand now. (At least, if I'm right when thinking now that the NES displays 16 8x8 tiles accross horizontally ) Hm... for a Yie Ar Kung Fu port, tile/char conversion considerations still seem pretty trivial for me. The task is clear: Provide a static background. You need to display this regardless of the code base you're working on. In fact I'd probably resample the backgrounds straight from the arcade for maximum accuracy. I thought the hard part in this conversion would be stuff like movement timing, AI, game logic and such (ain't that what killed the IK+ conversion?), that's why I thought the NES version probably was a simpler-to-port base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The aspect ratio errors come from the NES displaying 256x224 pixels (240 lines for PAL) in the same area the A8 displays 160x200. Ok, I understand now. (At least, if I'm right when thinking now that the NES displays 16 8x8 tiles accross horizontally ) Uhm... actually, I think I had it right, before you were trying to confuse me The A8 displays 160 different dots horizontally as in 40 4*8 chars. Those are double width pixels, since it's occupying the same area as an 320 pixel wide hires screen otherwize would. The NES displays 256 different dots horizontally as in 32 8*8 chars. Those are single width pixels. To convert that easily into a static screen, you'd leave the 4 left and right A8 character columns empty and resize all 8x8 tiles down to 4x8 chars. In a scrolling screen, that means you can see 8 tiles more on the A8. Yes or No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Both... 'Yes', using a 'narrow' playfield would satisfy this (and save some RAM) and 'No' - at what sacrifice? 8x8 down to 4x8 - you'd lose much of what was being represented in the first place wouldn't you? Similar in a little way to the recent Nebulus/Tower Toppler discussions. On the A8 the 'tower' could easily have been done in the Antic 4 mode, but at what sacrifice - the player's character can no longer be hi-rez. Pity Atari didn't allow the P/Ms to have a mono mode (1/2 color clock). Similar goes for Impossible Mission - we can't replicate the main character 'as-is' and so (for me) this detracts slightly if you know the original. Saying that, Rybags has done a good job with his replacement guy. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87183 Off on a tangent a bit - the Gameboy to A8 suffers similarly as that has a 160x160 display, so we're OK on the X-scale factor, but 160 out of our 192 pixels leaves us a little short so things look a bit squashed. Best wishes, Mark [Edit] Getting a bit off topic - we could start another thread if necessary 'Advantages/Disadvantages of porting from other systems'? Edited November 14, 2006 by Wrathchild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ok, here comes today's version. Fixed: 1. working on real stuff (tested on PAL machines, please check the game on the NTSC ones) 2. player's crippling on the second stage (STAR) 3. CHAIN doesn't lose his weapon anymore 4. garbage on player one/two select screen Known bugs: 1. the DLI interrupt issue is elliminated in principle. However, the screen may sometime flash (still working on this proc) 2. the jump sound sometimes is longer than it's used to be (really don't know why it occurs) 3. sometimes there may appear some garbage during fight (i've seen it on POLE and CHAIN stages - on player's-free space) 4. the game didn't lock up when we played it recently, but this issue may also occur. Please check if any other bugs still occur. yiekung.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Similar in a little way to the recent Nebulus/Tower Toppler discussions. On the A8 the 'tower' could easily have been done in the Antic 4 mode, but at what sacrifice - the player's character can no longer be hi-rez. This is still wrong thinking. One possibility was to have hires graphics with different luminaces on the moving chars (Player underlay). http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...0588&st=25# Water and Scoreboard could be both, hires and coloured. Or hires in combination with colourmode and PM Overlay which would look like this: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;hl=turrican# Off on a tangent a bit - the Gameboy to A8 suffers similarly as that has a 160x160 display, so we're OK on the X-scale factor, but 160 out of our 192 pixels leaves us a little short so things look a bit squashed. Don't forget, we have the possibily of showin 160x120 in double scanline mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twh/f2 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Ok, here comes today's version. Fixed: 1. working on real stuff (tested on PAL machines, please check the game on the NTSC ones) well. I can NOT confirm it to work on my PAL Atari 130 XE machine. I have a Satantronic RAM upgrade. Everything else is pretty much standard. \twh Edited November 14, 2006 by twh/f2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Ok, here's another version. Ingame-garbage should be elliminated. Also the title music has been tweaked a little. @emkay: Originally the music had sid sounds. They were removed due to player used in game (it doesn't play sid sounds, but it's less cycle-hungry) @twh/f2: The game should automatically detect your mem-expansion (it works on emulator in any >=320k config). This is Tebe's proc that can be found in MADS' archive. Can you run some test on your machine and then write down the bank-numbers? yiekung.zip Edited November 14, 2006 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ingame-garbage should be elliminated. Also the title music has been tweaked a little. The "little" makes the difference.... It is better now. BTW: How did you import the tune for editing it with POKEY sounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) The music is converted several times: MOD->MD8->MPT2.1->MPT2.4x MD8 is "module for 8-bit" format used by some 90s players such as SoundTracker Player or FAMPY. MPT2.1 can read patterns from MD8 files and (as there's no converter) a memory fragment must be dumped to disk and loaded into MPT2.4x using some DOS (i use DOS II+/D 6.4). Well - this is not straight converson... Original module (Magnetic 4) has different bassline and (unwanted here) percussion. Well, that's all! (attached original MOD for reference) MAGNETIC.ZIP Edited November 14, 2006 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Well - this is not straight converson... Original module (Magnetic 4) has different bassline and (unwanted here) claps. Well, that's all! Hm.... I thought someone would have built a SID to POKEY converter.... that would make things easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Hm.... I thought someone would have built a SID to POKEY converter.... that would make things easier. Which SID registers does the Yie Ar Kung Fu tune use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Actually 0% of SID engine is used. All music/FX are done in MPT. SID-sounds mentioned above are similar to those, which can be made in RMT (a little worse quality though, but MPT program is dated about 1992-3, and these sound are there well - by mistake ). Edited November 14, 2006 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I found the original graphic intro. Maybe could be better to make a GFX as near as the original, because C64 screenshot are very poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I meant in the C64 version, regarding writing a converter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 @Cybergoth: ah, OK, i had rather looooooooong day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 cool stuff... best wishes to poland coders... seems that everyone is making games instead of demos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vega Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) I found the original graphic intro. Maybe could be better to make a GFX as near as the original, because C64 screenshot are very poor. It is interesting idea...but...maybe somebody would like to write demo which could I will add to Yie Ar Kung Fu? This demo will be showing at the beginning before the game is loaded. I mean something like the demo in The Last Ninja III on C64 or better:) Edited November 14, 2006 by vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vega Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 (edited) fixed: Now 'garbage' during the battle can should removed finally. fixed: Other little bugs In *.zip file is 'YIEKUNG.OBX' - this file can be loading under DOS. (should work with every DOS) Yie_Ar_Kung_Fu.zip Edited November 15, 2006 by vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zektor800 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Excellent work! Just tested it in A800Win, will test the game on a real machine when I get home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Similar in a little way to the recent Nebulus/Tower Toppler discussions. On the A8 the 'tower' could easily have been done in the Antic 4 mode, but at what sacrifice - the player's character can no longer be hi-rez. Stupid discussion really. Artefacting only works on NTSC A8's. Pity Atari didn't allow the P/Ms to have a mono mode (1/2 color clock). 1/2 color clock is only true for the NTSC A8's, that's the reason why artefacting does not work on PAL A8's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vega Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 (edited) next version. Fixed: little bugs. Game_MADS_Yie_Ar_Kung_Fu.zip Edited November 16, 2006 by vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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