82-T/A Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hey guys, I remember reading many years ago about a hissing sound that would eminate from some Jaguars. I have a couple of different releases of the Jaguars (though they all look the same, but have different serial numbers). The one that I actually keep out and play has this hissing sound. It seems to get louder the hotter it gets. I read SOMEWHERE (don't remember) that this hissing sound was created by air passing through the underside of the chip. As the chip got hot, it would make a hissing sound? Dunno if this is correct, but I guess it makes sense. I used the search feature but didn't find anything with "Jaguar" and "Hissing" together that related to what I was looking for. Anyway, my question is... is this bad? It sounds more like sizzling almost, but I just want to make sure, the Jaguar doesn't really feel hot to the touch (just barely warmer than room temperature)... I'd hate to fry the thing.. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I have an old magazine somewhere where a reader wrote in about this back in the day, the response from Atari was that it's just the Jaguar "purring." Anyway, supposedly it's nothing to worry about. Though I don't remember it being air flowing under a chip, I think it was a coil that actually produces the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 If it bothers you though, just put that one away as a back-up unit or for networking at some point and use one of your other Jaguars. The only difference in the models, besides some hissing, is that most of the "k" series have an internal ADC circuit (analog to digital converter), which is usless for anything but one game; Battlesphere, and there aren't any analog controllers available for use with Battlesphere right now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 That's interesting... I wonder how a coil would produce a chip? It's been a long time since I've taken a Jaguar apart, but I don't remember there actually being a whole lot in there, just 2 or 3 huge chips, something like that looks like a keyboard BIOS (guess that's the 16802 or whatever Motorola)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 That's interesting... I wonder how a coil would produce a chip? It's been a long time since I've taken a Jaguar apart, but I don't remember there actually being a whole lot in there, just 2 or 3 huge chips, something like that looks like a keyboard BIOS (guess that's the 16802 or whatever Motorola)... You got me there...I don't know how a coil would produce a chip either; they aren't even sectually compatible! I'd be more specific, but I forget the name of the part off-hand, it's in the rear of the unit -a donut shaped part wound with wire, I'm not sure if it's even actually a "coil" I just refered to it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serblander Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Gunstar wrote: ... a reader wrote in about this back in the day, the response from Atari was that it's just the Jaguar "purring." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serblander Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Gunstar wrote: ... most of the "k" series have an internal ADC circuit (analog to digital converter), which is usless for anything but one game; Battlesphere ... Thats VERY interesting Gunstar. Do you have any other info on this? On how it 'could' be used with BS/BS:G? My imagination is starting to go into overdrive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Gunstar wrote:... most of the "k" series have an internal ADC circuit (analog to digital converter), which is usless for anything but one game; Battlesphere ... Thats VERY interesting Gunstar. Do you have any other info on this? On how it 'could' be used with BS/BS:G? My imagination is starting to go into overdrive! There is a code for BS/BSG to activate that allows an analog controller to be used through port two to play the games. Of course you have to have an analog controller that's modified to work with the Jaguar ports of course. There was one released years ago for a short time, but the company went under and they had stopped making them anyway after it was realised that there were wo different versions of the Jaguar and so the controllers would only work with earlier "K" series Jaguars. JaySmith 2000 has one of these controllers I believe. They wer made by the infamous 'Dark Knight Games' company I think they were called. it is possible to modify PC or other analog controllers to work though, that's all they did. Some point in the future maybe we'll have another choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Gunstar wrote:... most of the "k" series have an internal ADC circuit (analog to digital converter), which is usless for anything but one game; Battlesphere ... Thats VERY interesting Gunstar. Do you have any other info on this? On how it 'could' be used with BS/BS:G? My imagination is starting to go into overdrive! There is a code for BS/BSG to activate that allows an analog controller to be used through port two to play the games. Of course you have to have an analog controller that's modified to work with the Jaguar ports of course. There was one released years ago for a short time, but the company went under and they had stopped making them anyway after it was realised that there were wo different versions of the Jaguar and so the controllers would only work with earlier "K" series Jaguars. JaySmith 2000 has one of these controllers I believe. They wer made by the infamous 'Dark Knight Games' company I think they were called. it is possible to modify PC or other analog controllers to work though, that's all they did. Some point in the future maybe we'll have another choice... I actually got to use one of these controllers once. Somehow a guy at a local game store where I purchased all my Jag stuff from was friends with the Dark Knight Games guy and he had one of these joysticks. (The guy was a big Jag fan and because of that they even were selling the new Telegames releases just like any other major release from Sony or Nintendo at the time). He had the CDR version of IS2 there and the joystick and let me play around with it for a while. I had thought that the stick would have been made available to all shortly afterwards but that didn't happen of course. It's too bad that I don't know where he is now, I'd buy it off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symmetry of TNG Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi! just some words about that "coil" ...yes it was the "rf-noise redusing" coil after the incoming power connector (to take away noise that might have been picked up bu the long psu cable). Almost all "long cable" things has this... I guess it could be replaced with something that 1st fit the same place, 2nd could handle the same current. the noice is not something "dangerous" ..though it might be anoying =) This problem can also happen to monitors & TVs.. and the solution there is said to be "If tape helps, use it!" ... Just to pitch the noise to some other frequencies or whatever... IF putting a finger on it reduces the noise (never tried on my hissing one) then tape/gluegun whatever will most probably work!... if it doesnt I would replace it with something similar.. ahh well... About BS Joysticks: Wouldnt this be a nice thing to "offer" similar to those T2K rotary controllers? ...ie someone could build joysticks compatible with the ADC chip in the jag? Just a thought.. personally i beleive it to be so simple that I wouldnt need help but perhapps not all feel like that.. THOUGH! ...i actually wouldnt recomend it... since it might start a unwanted standard.. since it is NOT the way to do it (for future games).. ahh well.. /Sym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Moss Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 This problem can also happen to monitors & TVs.. and the solution there is said to be "If tape helps, use it!" ... Just to pitch the noise to some other frequencies or whatever... IF putting a finger on it reduces the noise (never tried on my hissing one) then tape/gluegun whatever will most probably work!... if it doesnt I would replace it with something similar.. Should work in most cases as the problem is often caused by the windings becoming loose and vibrating against each other. About BS Joysticks: Wouldnt this be a nice thing to "offer" similar to those T2K rotary controllers? ...ie someone could build joysticks compatible with the ADC chip in the jag? Just a thought.. personally i beleive it to be so simple that I wouldnt need help but perhapps not all feel like that.. THOUGH! ...i actually wouldnt recomend it... since it might start a unwanted standard.. since it is NOT the way to do it (for future games).. /Sym Its not a simple as it sounds, although you could take the analog output from a Gameport style Joystick and connect it into the Jag getting the fire buttons and direction to work requires building most of the circuitry for a JagPad into the mix as well. Although you could build a Joystick from scratch the component price is is prohibitive as you can purchase entire Joystick for less than you can an X,Y pot for the directions. It would probably work out cheaper to purchase a Joystick and build an adapter for it which is what I did (see http://www.myatari.net/issues/jul2003/jagstick.htm and follow the JagStick link for details) although I never tried it with BS it should work with it. However getting an analog output now that Joysticks have progressed to USB it more difficult and it would be prudent to produce any further adapters to comply with Atari's recommend method of using binary coded analog as the analog input for two reasons... 1st, not all Jags were fitted with ADC's and so it would be usable with all future analog games on all Jag's, and as BS is currently the only Jag game to use the Jag's ADC for which there are no suitable Joysticks anyway adopting this standard wont really effect anyone in terms of their current gaming experiance. 2nd, the analog information supplied by a USB Joystick would already be in the format required by the Jag and thus not need converting or re-interpreting in order for the Jag to understand it you just have to get to it. I was hoping to have a USB prototype ready by now but other projects have go in the way, now that they are established I am still hoping to work on it this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Deep Necrobump powaaaah! This might not be the same for everyone, but I thought I'd share my findings: I got a nos Jag recently and thought I'd do a couple of things to it; Change the caps (essential maintenance as far as I am concerned) and try to stop the hiss, as it was good and LOUD. I opened the system and tried to locate the source of the hiss but eventually gave up as nothing I pressed with my chubby finger made the hiss any quieter. So I just went ahead and replaced all the caps (Console5 cap kit). The hiss stopped... Completely. Figure that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Deep Necrobump powaaaah! This might not be the same for everyone, but I thought I'd share my findings: I got a nos Jag recently and thought I'd do a couple of things to it; Change the caps (essential maintenance as far as I am concerned) and try to stop the hiss, as it was good and LOUD. I opened the system and tried to locate the source of the hiss but eventually gave up as nothing I pressed with my chubby finger made the hiss any quieter. So I just went ahead and replaced all the caps (Console5 cap kit). The hiss stopped... Completely. Figure that one out. It is coil whine and I actually developed the hiss on my jaguar AFTER changing out the caps from Console5. In the end Luke sent me two other brands of caps, and I believe it was the more expensive Panny power filter cap that removed the hissing. It was so loud on mine that I could hear it from 10ft away across the room and even over the sound of the games sometimes. It was insane! So it is possible that Luke is just putting that more expensive cap in the kits now, but I was the one who helped in figuring out which low ESR cap was needed...hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I was the one who helped in figuring out which low ESR cap was needed...hehe I spotted that. It confused me for a second then I just went with it The caps I got in the kit were all Panasonic or Nichicon, so I'm guessing he took your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) The whine was known to occur on some brand-new Jaguars back in the nineties ; it does not indicate that something is wrong, and doesn't mean that the capacitors are defective or bad quality. If it annoys you, you can try adding some hot glue on L29 (the big green coil at the lower right part of the PCB) to dampen the vibrations. Edited June 1, 2018 by Zerosquare 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I remember this issue from when the Jaguar was new. I would think it's covered in the FAQ, or at least in the archives of rec.games.video.atari. Whatever the cause was back then is now exacerbated since the things are over 20 years old. If you're gonna play Jaguar games anyway, I would just consider it part of the package. "Purring," LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I also knew about it back in the day, but again mine never did the hiss until after it was recapped. So somehow something in the different brands being used caused the issue. I can tell you that the Jaguar made not have been supported well, but it was built well or at least with good quality parts. The jaguar already had Nichicon caps throughout it and the CD originally. So it wasn't until i changed them out and the large 2200uf one was replaced that I start to get that coil whine noise. And it was really really loud on mine. It worked fine but just surprised me to hear it all of sudden. Again console5 sent me like 2 or 3 other brands of caps to try and it was the last one that got rid of the noise. Again, I believe it was a panasonic that eventually took care of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARusk Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I have a bit of the hissing noise with mine as well. Is it possible to note the specific capacitor that kills the noise so that others can perform this mod for their units? Apparently, according to Crossbow, it may be a Panasonic. Also, is it possible to find out what that cap is made from? Is it a metal film type for example - even if you have several caps that all look the same they may be made of different materials and that may be the key to solve the noise problem. If we know what this Panasonic cap is made out of then you can go get that specific type of cap regardless of manufacturer - just in case Panasonic doesn't make this type of cap anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 It is cap C150 on the board. It is a 2200uf 16v electrolytic capacitor. You really can't miss it as it is the largest cap on the jaguar PCB and sits just behind the coil inductor that causes the hissing sound to occur. Again I want to reiterate that my jaguar did NOT have the hiss initially. It wasn't until I recapped it that the hiss came about. So whatever was in the cap kit prior to 2016 for that filter cap, wasn't compatible with my jaguar. I brought the issue up with console5 and again, they sent me like 2 other brands of caps to see if they could lessen it any. I don't recall which exact brand, but I'm pretty sure it was the panasonic as I do remember Luke from console5 saying something to effect when I told him which one corrected it, that it would "naturally be the most expensive cap he could purchase for that particular spec". LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I recently repaired a Jaguar and replaced this capacitor with a Panasonic brand one, and the repaired board has a significant buzz. Once again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the capacitor ; you may think the buzz is gone with a different brand of capacitor, but it may simply have shifted in frequency to inaudible ultrasounds. Try adding hot glue on the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 The difference with the caps wasn't so much about the brands being used. The caps had different ESR ratings on them apparently. I guess I need to crack my Jaguar open again and find out which brand and series of cap took care of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 The only problem with a Necrobump of one of your posts from 14-15 years ago... is you realize how much time you spend on stuff... oh.. if I had used all that time learning a 3rd language or contracting projects... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 No one is even listening to Zerosquare. He could be right. A touch of hot glue might dampen it if it's vibrating. But if it still needs replacing then it needs to be dug out of hot glue. Maybe a video should be posted of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 No one is even listening to Zerosquare. He could be right. A touch of hot glue might dampen it if it's vibrating. But if it still needs replacing then it needs to be dug out of hot glue. Maybe a video should be posted of it. Not true, I was listening to him. It is just that based on this, it would imply that the hissing or buzzing..etc was always present and that different caps with different ratings being used for the power filtering simply bring the coil whine into being more audible than it was before? I'm sure that is possible but then I'm not fond on hot glue either if I can stay away from it. As I stated in another thread, I do occasionally have to use it if panel jacks I've installed into a console still slip and try to come undone regardless. In those cases I will hit the back of them with glue to completely encase them and hot the lock rings and nuts in place better to prevent them from coming loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARusk Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Another angle to this is to find a coil that doesn't make noise regardless of caps but I don't know if such a thing exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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