VGXPO : November 12/13 : Fort Washington, PA

[maibock]

Ok - My interest just dropped down to Zero.  This no longer looks like a Classic Gaming convention, but just a gaming convention. 

 

Damn.  I was looking forward to this too - the first one I would have beeen able to make it to.

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Looks like the same stuff from previous Philly Classics, except with a lot more other diversions(action figures, comics and such)

 

Last year there were modern consoles represented, but was not dominate in the least compared to the classic stuff. As long as there remains a hearty classic portion of the show, we should be ok. I'm hoping the modern stuff keeps people off the classic arcade cabs

[K3V]

Yeah I think having modern games there is a good thing. I like some Halo 2 to go with my Tempest. I'll be getting in on the H2 tournament

 

Besides you guys need to come by and check out Gorf for the JagCD and Invs and Katapila for NUON

Edited October 12, 2005 by K3V

[mstulir]

So...

 

How about us trying to get together an 'Atari-Age' dinner for maybe...  Saturday night?  Something close to the convention center?

 

(Why am I always thinking of food?) 

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I actually had an idea for an Atari Age type event, and since I live here in Philly, I could make all of the arrangements.

 

Let me talk to Albert.

[ed_fleming]

Hi folks,

 

VGXPO is quickly approaching and I wanted to drop in a quick line about the show and clear up a few things.

 

First, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic. It really is a new show, one that covers a wide range of gaming topics, including our roots - classic games. To make the show appealing to a larger base of people we teamed up with NBC to promote the expo. Some of you have been saying that it was a mistake to mix PhillyClassic and an NBC event together. But realize, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic - it is its own show, with a new and larger mission.

 

The truth is, running a game show is hard. We've been trying to figure out how to make the show work. When we signed on to work with NBC as a partner the original plan was for NBC to run a technology event. In April 2005, their plans changed and the event became a Consumer Fest, and then in late September 2005, it was renamed to Consumer Expo. Since May 2005, we’ve been promoting our involvement with NBC10 in Philly as a consumer event. We believe that the event will bring many people out to the show. It is true that NBC hasn’t done such a good job with its website. But, I’ve been promised that it will be updated soon to better reflect what we are bringing to the show and some of the other things that the show will include (including video games and technology), not just info about money management. In addition we are doing a number of own marketing efforts, outside of NBC’s promotion. These include magazine, news paper, internet and retail POS marketing. Through these channels we expect over 250,000 impressions.

 

The reality is, we are gearing ourselves to offer a gaming experience for both hard core and casual game players. The effect is bringing more people in to our hobby, teaching them about the video game industry and warming them up to be included in the video game collecting hobby. Working with NBC is not negative, it is bring more people into the hobby who might otherwise never been part of it.

 

We plan to make VGXPO the main consumer videogame event in the US, and we want it to be our full time jobs. To do this we have to grow the show into something that attracts mainstream public and something that is attractive to the likes of Nintendo, Sony, EA, Microsoft, SNK, Capcom, Atari, and the many other game publishers. To do this they expect 25,000 or more people to participate in such an event, it’s a high stakes game and they just aren’t interested in getting involved in small shows. We plan to grow into an event similar to Wizard World, Comicon, DigitalLife, IGN Live, G.A.M.E, GameLive Events, and eventually Tokyo Game Show. But we are humbled by are origins – we know that we cannot grow without standing on the shoulders of others, NBC provides us that first step.

 

PhillyClassic was a great show. It attracted nearly 3000 hard-core gamers. VGXPO plans to replicate the same success, but please bear with us through our first few events. It's true that we are having some growing pains, but we are working to fix those issues. There is a lot that we want to do - and we can only do it with your support.

[Raiu]

First, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic.

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Interest in show is now zero.

 

I missed PhillyClassic 1. I really loved PhillyClassic 2, 3, and 4. I wasn't really all that thrilled with it last year, since the new consoles seemed to be dominating the floor (and a few of the regular vendors, like the Big Table O' Handhelds, weren't there). Don't get me wrong, I like new games, but if I want to be surrounded by nothing but hype for new games, I'll go to Electronics Botique or Gamestop, not take a special 800-mile trip up to Philadelphia. (Heck, last year, a good portion of the floor was GIVEN to Electronics Botique and Gamestop)

 

With the announcement that you're no longer even TRYING to put on the show I actually want to go to, and that even MORE of the floorspace is going to be filled with things other than the classic games I go to the show for (and things other than games in general - I mean, did you even look at the show you let them mix PhillyClassic with? How to avoid credit card fraud and how to find a good home contractor?), I have no interest in attending.

 

Do you really expect people who supported Philly Classic in the past to support a show whose primary purpose is (according to NBC10's description of the event) to keep kids from having furniture fall on them and getting on the DO NOT CALL list? I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself: until you or someone else brings back PhillyClassic, a convention by classic gamers for classic gamers, don't expect me there.

 

-DS-

[Trade-N-Games]

Hi folks,

 

First, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic.

It is true that NBC hasn’t done such a good job with its website.

PhillyClassic was a great show.  It's true that we are having some growing pains, but we are working to fix those issues. 

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[Centallica]

Hi everyone,

 

I know everyone's got mixed feelings about the VGXPO show and I'm hesitant to book my hotel room and drive 8 hours there and back. This will/would be my 1st VG expo attending.

 

So let me get this straight about VGXPO in Philly in November/05:

 

Luke-warm reviews at best for Dallas VGXPO this year,

Couldn't find any info on Washington's results (did it happen?)

No Atari museum this year in Philly (pulled out)

No mention of Coin-op's that I've heard of

Vender's are either hesitant or pulling out for this show

 

Who else is driving 8 or more hours, feeling the same thing here and what is drawing you to come this year?

 

Help get me pumped for this to attend please!

Brian

[rolenta]

Couldn't find any info on Washington's results (did it happen?)

Yes, it happened and attendence was low but I figured it would be going into it.

 

No mention of Coin-op's that I've heard of

Videotopia

 

No Atari museum this year in Philly (pulled out)

Vender's are either hesitant or pulling out for this show

As far as I know the Atari Museum was the only vendor who pulled out. And the reasoning behind it was beyond me since the museum is not at the show to make money, Curt's expenses would be the same if one person saw the museum or three thousand saw it. I believe that pulling out started a self-fullfilling prophesy of causing everybody else to run scared.

 

All I could say is that we're going to make the best of it. Rolenta Press is debuting two new books and this might be the last time that Ralph Baer, who will turn 84 in March, appears at a public videogame event.

Edited October 23, 2005 by rolenta

[Albert]

Time for me to put my two cents into this discussion.

 

Couldn't find any info on Washington's results (did it happen?)

Yes, it happened and attendence was low but I figured it would be going into it.

I was told that there were 40,000 people at the DC event. And if I had to guess, perhaps a few thousand people came through the doors at the Dallas event (where I had a large AtariAge booth setup). How many books did you sell? And the DC event looked to me to be more technology-oriented than the upcoming NBC10 Con$umer Expo.

 

As far as I know the Atari Museum was the only vendor who pulled out. And the reasoning behind it was beyond me since the museum is not at the show to make money, Curt's expenses would be the same if one person saw the museum or three thousand saw it. I believe that pulling out started a self-fullfilling prophesy of causing everybody else to run scared.

Atari Museum is not the only vendor to pull out of this show. I am aware of several other vendors who have decided not to attend, either based on performance of the prior two vgXpo shows and/or because they no longer have confidence that the Philly show will draw the right type of crowd. Trade 'n' Games publicly stated that they would not be going (even though I still see their name on the list of exhibitors, along with Atari Museum and Legacy Engineering). Mike Stulir of Back 'n' Time will not be present, and he has withdrawn as one of the organizers for the show. The 1Ups, a band that performed at the Dallas show and was slated to appear in Philly, has withdrawn from the show. Mark Wolfe, one of the primary organizers of last year's PhillyClassic, has withdrawn his support of the show and is no longer an organizer. Sunmark, who was at the past two PhillyClassic shows, will not be present. Several individuals I know who have attended past shows and were previously enthusiastic about attending have told me that they will not be going to this year's show, and some of these people have helped me setup and run the AtariAge booth in prior years.

 

You're right in that the Atari Museum display is not a "for-profit" operation. However, I can't blame Curt for pulling out, as I doubt only a small percentage of attendees will be interested in his historical display and it's simply not worth the effort in his opinion.

 

I am extremely disappointed that this show has been rebranded from a Tech Expo (which it has been in the past) into a "Con$umer Expo". Up until about two weeks ago, I was still under the impression that this would be a TECH EXPO, with technology-oriented companies displaying new products and such. Video games are a natural fit for a show of this nature. It wasn't until someone spied the recently updated NBC10 Consumer Expo website and sent me a link that my jaw dropped, aghast at the changes that had been made. There isn't even mention on the website that video games are involved, and the "vgXpo" isn't even listed as an exhibitor. That this still hasn't changed even though the website has been online for two weeks shows that NBC doesn't care and/or that the vgXpo organizers have little power over how this event is promoted.

 

I'm sorry, even if there are 25,000 people at this event, based on how the overall event is being promoted, only a small portion of those people are going to care that there is a video game exhibit at the show, and an even smaller portion are going to care about classic video games. I mostly sell new homebrew games from the AtariAge booth. These people are going to walk by my booth, wonder why these Atari 2600 games are so expensive, and just keep on going. I've seen this at shows that try to mix classic gaming with modern gaming (such as AGE in 2003, PC5 last year, OVGE, etc.) but at least those shows were heavily tilted towards classic gaming and there were still plenty of classic gamers in attendance to make it worthwhile. These shows were not not mixed with a much LARGER show that has absolutely NOTHING to do with video games. This is the same formula we saw in Dallas and anyone who attended that show knows how well that went over.

 

I spend a considerable amount of time and money to attend an event such as this, and last year's PhillyClassic 5 was the big event for me. This year I had expected it to be PhillyClassic 6, and then the Philly vgXpo after all the changes were announced. Now I am not sure that it is worth my effort to expend this much energy, time and money. Had the show not changed, I would have had no doubts. But now I have absolutely no idea how much of the previous PhillyClassic crowd this show will attract. All I do know is that vendors / exhibitors who were at past PhillyClassic shows have decided not to attend or have simply pulled out, and several individuals and friends have told me they will not be attending.

 

I also do not like the direction that the vgXpo organizers are hoping to take the show. They want to turn it into a US version of the popular Tokyo Game Show. Well, there's already an event that is going to fill that role, and it's the Penny Arcade Expo. Which has the support of the game industry and has experienced explosive growth since it began (and I expect this growth to continue). It's pretty obvious to me that classic video games will be a footnote of future vgXpo events given how Ed has outlined plans above. Once you attract the big name vendors (large video game companies like Nintendo and Sony, and large video game retailers like Gamestop), any classic gaming at the show will be drowned out by "the big boys", who can afford to spend large amounts of cash to attend shows like this.

 

You can already see where vgXpo is heading if you look at the pricing for booth space--$1,000 minimum for a 10' x 10' booth, which nets you a single table. If you are a classic gamer and want a single table to sell your goods, it'll cost you $180 per table in the "Marketplace" area. This is considerably more than tables cost in previous PhillyClassic shows, and now that the show isn't part of a large Tech Expo, I feel that these vendors are not getting any benefit for the higher prices.

 

I now need to make a decision (and quickly) as to whether I am going to attend the Philly vgXpo. I am not confident that I will break even attending this show, given the considerable expense in aattending, and the low margins on homebrew games. Many individuals who would have been nice to see at this show will not be present, including Tempest, Mark DiLuciano, CPUWIZ, Mike Stulir, Curt Vendel, Mark Wolfe, Tony Morse, Mr. and Mrs. MegaManFan, and more. So even the socializing aspect of the show has been diminished greatly from previous years. And many of these individuals helped setup and manage the AtariAge booth at past shows, making even more work for me this time around.

 

Now that the reigns for the PhillyClassic name have been handed back to their original owners, I hope we see a genuine PhillyClassic show in future years.

 

..Al

[Curt Vendel]

Len,

 

Perhaps then instead of making such a careless comment such as the one below, then ask me Lenny. I'm not going because as I stated, its not worth it, I went to Dallas Lenny to see people walk by my booth and the dozen of others with blank stares, not knowing or caring about what was on display and then walking out and leaving.

 

I don't make money at these events, I lose money because its all out of pocket at my expense. If I'm going to attend an event, I'd rather do it for those who are actually going to take an interest and want to see such items on display.

 

You were privy to being included to the private message threads to Ed Fleming, you must be going senile or you must be getting short term memory loss not to either remember or understand, it was very clearly explained by all exhibiting/vendor parties who commented.

 

I posted that I was not going publicly because I had previously posted to one of your thread that I was going (several weeks back before finding out that VGxpo, not even mentioned by NBC at all, is part of an NBC Consumer Finance Show and not a Tech Expo). I already wasted enough time and money on Dallas, I am not going to waste more time/money on Philly to attend a show where no one is going to give a rats ass about videogames. Going to VGxpo with its current audience expected is like VGxpo partnering with a knitting convention, wrong mix, wrong audience = waste of time/money.

 

How many videogamers on the message boards are talking about VGxpo and attending, in fact, other then these couple of messages in 3-4 threads, there is no talk of VGxpo really anywhere else (a post here and there, but nothing else).

 

Usually old Phillyclassic followers from Atari Age would be chatting away in dozens of posts a day leading up to a Phillyclassic and here and on several other sites. So bottom line is Lenny, I didn't start some self-fulfilling prophecy... VGXpo has not lived up to even 1% of its empty promises and is 0 for 2 in its 2 shows so far. The ONLY saving grace of the Dallas show for those of us who did attend as exhibitors and vendors was we as long time on-line friends were able to see one another, hang out, grab some dinner and talk in person.

 

 

 

So, is this clear enough for you or do you need some colored pie charts and crayon drawings to help you along a little more???

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

 

Couldn't find any info on Washington's results (did it happen?)

Yes, it happened and attendence was low but I figured it would be going into it.

 

No mention of Coin-op's that I've heard of

Videotopia

 

No Atari museum this year in Philly (pulled out)

Vender's are either hesitant or pulling out for this show

As far as I know the Atari Museum was the only vendor who pulled out. And the reasoning behind it was beyond me since the museum is not at the show to make money, Curt's expenses would be the same if one person saw the museum or three thousand saw it. I believe that pulling out started a self-fullfilling prophesy of causing everybody else to run scared.

 

All I could say is that we're going to make the best of it. Rolenta Press is debuting two new books and this might be the last time that Ralph Baer, who will turn 84 in March, appears at a public videogame event.

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[Big Player]

If Atari Age doesn't go to the show, I'm not going either. I've read all the stuff about the show and I really can't believe what happened to the show. Phillyclassic was what a classic video game show should be.

 

I figured at least I could socialize with the Atari Age members I've met at the preivous Phillyclassic shows. I though of starting a thread with a VExpo roll call, but is there a point? Is anyone from this site going to be there?

[Mark Wolfe]

No mention of Coin-op's that I've heard of

Videotopia

 

 

 

umm, I don't think so. According to what I know, Videotopia is booked solid with VideoGamesLive and there are shows in other cities on Nov. 12 + 13.

 

Someone please give me some verification on the coinop situation at vgXpo if they have more up to date info than I have.

 

-mw

[rolenta]

The Dallas show was doomed from the start. Being the same weekend as CGE, very few people who had a choice between one or the othe other, would opt for CGEm instead of a little-known show.

 

Washington was also doomed. If you checked the exhibiter list you would have seen that it was always small. I wasn't expecting anything there but I figured that I would take a ride down just to have some fun.

 

But the Philly show was what people have been waiting for all along. Even despite Ed's claims the VGXPO wasn't Phillyclassic, people still referred to it as Phillyclassic. And the exhibiter list was pretty high initially. If it wasn't for all of this negative talk, people would not have dropped out. The collectors who were plannng to go to the show couldn't care less if there was tech expo or a consumer expo. They were going to the games section which is to be separate from the rest of the show. However they definitely are not going to attend when the exhibiters begin dropping out.

 

Yes, I was privey to Curt's initial email but there is a lot I'm not privy to. I didn't know that the name 'Phillyclassic' went back to its original owners. And as recently as a week ago Mike Stulir was interested in talking to Bill Kunkel even though he wasn't part of the show. I gave him my blessings to do so and never heard from him again. Like I said, there is a lot that I'm not privy to.

 

And Curt, I would have asked you privately bu tyou don't return my emails. I sent you an email on a totally unrelated matter two days ago and never received a response. So what am I to do?

 

Well I have to go because Kunkel and Baer have non-refundable tickets.

[rolenta]

And now a question to Ed Flemming:

 

How much of the Exhibiter list is now fictional. It's true that Curt and the Atari Museum are still listed but are not attending. And now Videotopia is questionable and is still listed. How many names are still listed that shouldn't be and how long has it been that they should have been removed? Long before some people bought nonrefundable plane tickets?

[AtariAger]

The collectors who were plannng to go to the show couldn't care less if there was tech expo or a consumer expo. They were going to the games section which is to be separate from the rest of the show. However they definitely are not going to attend when the exhibiters begin dropping out.

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[Albert]

The Dallas show was doomed from the start. Being the same weekend as CGE, very few people who had a choice between one or the othe other, would opt for CGEm instead of a little-known show.

This is not what hurt the Dallas show, although I'm sure there are people who'd go to CGE before going to another show on the same day. We had a similar issue with AGE back in 2003, it was two weeks before CGE. However, AGE did remarkably well and we had 2,300 gamers come through the door in a single day. The show was heavily promoted throughout Texas (mainly in Austin, though). The show had a clear focus: classic video games and computers, modern video games, and arcade games. AGE was a regional show in that it attracted mostly people from Texas, and the Dallas vgXpo should have been the same way. But the Dallas show attracted very few gamers at all. Why? Because it was part of a poorly promoted "Home and Lifestyles Expo" (or something like that). Video games were just a footnote.

 

Washington was also doomed. If you checked the exhibiter list you would have seen that it was always small. I wasn't expecting anything there but I figured that I would take a ride down just to have some fun.

The Washington DC show was a last minute addition, in attempts to help further build the vgXpo name. But from the pictures I saw, it at least appeared to be more of a "Tech Expo" than either Dallas or the upcoming Philly show.

 

But the Philly show was what people have been waiting for all along. Even despite Ed's claims the VGXPO wasn't Phillyclassic, people still referred to it as Phillyclassic. And the exhibiter list was pretty high initially. If it wasn't for all of this negative talk, people would not have dropped out. The collectors who were plannng to go to the show couldn't care less if there was tech expo or a consumer expo. They were going to the games section which is to be separate from the rest of the show. However they definitely are not going to attend when the exhibiters begin dropping out.

People refer to vgXpo as PhillyClassic as that is how it was promoted in the beginning. This is why people continued to refer to the Philly vgXpo show as "PhillyClassic". Ed was hoping to use it as a stepping stone for the more ambitious vgXpo, but instead PhillyClassic fans and vendors are being alienated.

 

The show WAS originally the successor to PhillyClassic, and even had, "Powered by PhillyClassic" in the masthead. Only recently has this association been removed and the name reverted back to the original Philly organizers. And I've never seen an exhibitor list with more names on it than what's on the website now. There was a list of exhibitors from last year's show, which is now gone.

 

You're right, I didn't expect the Dallas show to be the big success that previous PhillyClassic shows have been. It was the first vgXpo show and being held in a new location. But NBC was promising 20,000+ people through the doors and maybe 3,000-4,000 people attended over both days. And the vast majority of them were NOT gamers. I was surprised when I arrived at the show on Friday to set things up only to discover that the Dallas show was not a Tech Expo. I didn't really know how this would affect the show until afterwards.

 

It is not negative talk that is causing people to pull out. I can list a few tangible reasons:

 

1) Negative performance of both the Dallas and Washington DC shows.

2) The NBC show in Philly changing from a Tech Expo to a Consumer Expo, with nary a mention of video games on the official NBC10 website.

3) Changes to the show that pushes it away from what turned PhillyClassic into the largest classic gaming event.

 

..Al

[rolenta]

Al, I understand what you're saying but you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if it's tied to a Tech show or a Consumer Show. Think about it. Even if it was a tech show and 25,000 people attended because it was a FREE tech show, how many of them do you think would be interested in classic games? They would have come in and walked around and probably not bought anything anyway. The ones would be interested in would be the classic gamers who would have come to the show no matter what! Phillyclassic and CGE were the two biggest shows of the year and even with the name change, many people were still looking at the Philly show as Phillyclassic. If all the vendors stuck with it, they would have come no matter what and not cared about what kind of expo was going on on the outside. I really don't think that any of the expos would have drawn in too many interested people. Sure, the free coin-ops would get their attention but that's about it.

[Xot]

Hi folks,

 

VGXPO is quickly approaching and I wanted to drop in a quick line about the show and clear up a few things.

 

First, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic. It really is a new show, one that covers a wide range of gaming topics, including our roots - classic games. To make the show appealing to a larger base of people we teamed up with NBC to promote the expo. Some of you have been saying that it was a mistake to mix PhillyClassic and an NBC event together. But realize, VGXPO is not PhillyClassic - it is its own show, with a new and larger mission.

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That's all well and good to say NOW, mere weeks before the event. That's not how it was promoted when the partnership was first announced. For months, phillyclassic.com hosted the VGXPO site; it even featured a PC6 logo.

 

I truly wish you all well in this new endeavor. But what you must realize now is what I had been trying to tell the rest of the PC staff back during the 2004 event - classic gamers and casual gamers are a completely different demographic. By focusing on casual gamers, you are neccesarily alienating the community that supported PhillyClassic and made it what it was.

 

By presenting VGXPO as the successor to PC, the hopes and hearts of the classic gaming community immediately fell into your hands. By changing the focus to more modern games, you largely lost that support. It's not that anyone is angry or upset at the show you're trying to offer in and of itself. It's that the fans of PhillyClassic don't want to rub elbows with a bunch of "casual gamers" who often think old games are passe. It's a different group of people. Sure, there's going to be SOME overlap, but by and large we're a class unto ourselves.

 

And I think what you may have failed to take into account was that the true pillars of the classic gaming community -- the big draws of PC, guys like Curt Vendel, Tempest, AtariAge, Trade-N-Games -- don't want to be part of a 'casual gaming' event. They know their audience better than anyone else, and casual gamers aren't it.

 

I hope I'm not speaking too much for other people, but the disappointment comes from the absence of a Philly Classic event, despite the fact that VGXPO was originally promoted as one.

 

 

....

Wow, that was rambling.

[Xot]

The ones would be interested in would be the classic gamers who would have come to the show no matter what!

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But this is not true. VGXPO was alienating PC fans right from the beginning. By changing the time and the format, the show no longer became worth an eight hour trip for me. My decision was made long before anyone pulled out, and it had nothing to do with the vendor or exhibitor list. It was largely to do with the intangibles.

 

Ultimately, it seems like VGXPO is treating classic games the same way the 'casual gamers' they are so intent on targeting do - as an afterthought.

[Albert]

Al, I understand what you're saying but you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if it's tied to a Tech show or a Consumer Show. Think about it. Even if it was a tech show and 25,000 people attended because it was a FREE tech show, how many of them do you think would be interested in classic games? They would have come in and walked around and probably not bought anything anyway. The ones would be interested in would be the classic gamers who would have come to the show no matter what! Phillyclassic and CGE were the two biggest shows of the year and even with the name change, many people were still looking at the Philly show as Phillyclassic. If all the vendors stuck with it, they would have come no matter what and not cared about what kind of expo was going on on the outside. I really don't think that any of the expos would have drawn in too many interested people. Sure, the free coin-ops would get their attention but that's about it.

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Well, we are going to have to disagree here. At least a TECHNOLOGY expo and VIDEO GAMES are very much related. There is a good chance that if someone is interested in Technology, then they may also enjoy Video Games. Heck, you may go to a technology expo EXPECTING to see video games. But someone coming to the NBC10 Consumer Fest to learn how to balance their checkbook is not expecting to find an exhibit about Video Games. It's totally haphazard and random. And this is only one of the points I brought up in my above post. You are ignoring the other issues, such as the fact that the show is being poorly promoted (especially by NBC, which has the potential to bring the MOST attention to the video game aspect of the show--yet they are ignoring it), and that the focus of the vgXpo is changing away from classic video games.

 

Also, if I'm going to come out of town to attend the vgXpo, knowing it's part of a larger show, I personally would be much more interested in a technology show than a "Consumer Expo". Virtually none of the exhibits in the Consumer Expo I'm interested in one iota. But at a technology show, I'd find quite a bit to keep me interested, and I'm willing to bet many classic gamers feel the same way.

 

PhillyClassic wasn't broken, it shouldn't have been "fixed". Yes, it could continue to be improved (this is true of just about anything), but what we've seen here goes well beyond that.

 

..Al

[Xot]

Well, we are going to have to disagree here.  At least a TECHNOLOGY expo and VIDEO GAMES are very much related.  There is a good chance that if someone is interested in Technology, then they may also enjoy Video Games.  Heck, you may go to a technology expo EXPECTING to see video games.  But someone coming to the NBC10 Consumer Fest to learn how to balance their checkbook is not expecting to find an exhibit about Video Games.

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Also, along those lines, gamers browsing the events section of the local paper are more likely to stop on TECH EXPO, and then, if it's mentioned, VIDEO GAMES.

[Chickybaby]

Al, I understand what you're saying but you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if it's tied to a Tech show or a Consumer Show. Think about it. Even if it was a tech show and 25,000 people attended because it was a FREE tech show, how many of them do you think would be interested in classic games? They would have come in and walked around and probably not bought anything anyway. The ones would be interested in would be the classic gamers who would have come to the show no matter what! Phillyclassic and CGE were the two biggest shows of the year and even with the name change, many people were still looking at the Philly show as Phillyclassic. If all the vendors stuck with it, they would have come no matter what and not cared about what kind of expo was going on on the outside. I really don't think that any of the expos would have drawn in too many interested people. Sure, the free coin-ops would get their attention but that's about it.

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I would disagree at least partially. Many people were disheartened to see all the other stuff taking away from the videogames. The focus of PC was Video Games exclusively and even if it was newer stuff at least there wasn't other stuff to distract from it. Many people travel a long distance and many don't really give a damn about a Consumer Expo. Lots of time plus fuel costs for a small if not negligible reward. Since this "Expo" is the main theme of the event then that changes the mood greatly.

I for one don't like large crowds and I wouldn't waste my time going if there wasn't enough for me to see or do regardless if a few vendors were going or not. So no, I wouldn't go "no matter what" even if we had 27 systems and hundreds if not thousands of games.

 

As far as vendors go - if you want to pay my 180.00 fee for wanting to sell lots of our doubles then I would happily set up a table. We couldn't sell enough to cover the costs since 99% of the stuff is commons even if it's for many systems. Do you want to haul all our stuff around and pay for transportation too? Philly Classic charged I think about 75.00$ per spot for 2 days (I'm not sure) but that's still a hell of a difference.

Why should Albert drive from Texas just to maybe break even if he's lucky - 1,000.00 is an obscene amount of money especially considering that most people wouldn't be interested even in buying something except a small handfull and it's a shit load of work with fewer people to help.

Most of the games can be found in the AA store and the marketplace here is a FREE way to sell exclusively to gamers without an overhead cost - at this point it's a heck of a lot better to me.

Many vendors are in it to make money not go through a lot of effort to lose it - or is that not the point of being a vendor?

[CPUWIZ]

Also, if I'm going to come out of town to attend the vgXpo, knowing it's part of a larger show, I personally would be much more interested in a technology show than a "Consumer Expo".  Virtually none of the exhibits in the Consumer Expo I'm interested in one iota.  But at a technology show, I'd find quite a bit to keep me interested, and I'm willing to bet many classic gamers feel the same way.

 

That rings true for me also, I am not only a classing gaming collector, but also a gadget freak. I shudder at the thought of thousands of housewife's with screaming children attending this new event.

 

Oh well, 2005 will go down as the first year without attending a classic gaming event for me. I should have at least driven to San Jose.

[Mark Wolfe]

I truly wish you all well in this new endeavor. But what you must realize now is what I had been trying to tell the rest of the PC staff back during the 2004 event - classic gamers and casual gamers are a completely different demographic. By focusing on casual gamers, you are neccesarily alienating the community that supported PhillyClassic and made it what it was.

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Hey xot, I just wanted to clarify my stance on this since I believe David and I were the first to propose that what you are essentially pointing out is not the case at all [and we set the stage for proving that with PC5]. In fact classic games, gaming, gamers have been enjoying quite an explosive and expansive return to the forefront of our culture in the past few years. Anyone who has been paying attention to recent music, television, movies and yes of course, classic game compilation releases can attest to this and it pretty much proves that David and I were right all along [i won't even bring up the huge nostalgia factor that goes along with it... oh wait, I just did].

 

Casual gamers LOVE classic games simply because they can be enjoyed CASUALLY and don't require a huge emotional and time-intensive investment. I really think this is a topic that is best discussed outside of the parameters of what is going on, right or wrong, with vgXpo.

 

The bullet list of grievances that many are feeling [and a small few have aired here at AA] have very little to do with the "mix" or setting of vgXpo and NBC and a LOT to do with management overall.

 

Those who would point to the frustrated among us who have taken a moment to provide information that does not seem to be forthcoming from proper channels and say that it is our voiced concerns and complaints that was the impedes for this negativity need to look very closely at what is being said and why. Where there is smoke, there's fire.

 

'nuff said.

 

-mw

[Chickybaby]

That rings true for me also, I am not only a classing gaming collector, but also a gadget freak. I shudder at the thought of thousands of housewife's with screaming children attending this new event. 

I totally agree with that and I couldn't find Enough Excedrin Migraine for that headache or enough alcohol to dull the pain of the Housewives w/ kids and probably most of the kids being spoiled and obnoxious.

 

Keep them away from my video game systems!

*nightmares of Ice Cream and Chocolate fingerprints on our Treamcast or Nomads and soda spills or worse baby formula and throw-up*

 

The name "Tech Expo" conjures up thoughts of new toys to play with and current as well as futuristic designs at least and that = fun and exploring! (and probably wasting a lot of $$$ )

Edited October 24, 2005 by Chickybaby