2 versions of Winter Games?

[gdement]

Many years ago (1990 I think), I received 7800 Winter Games as a birthday present. I hadn't used the console for a long time, so I had to hook it up before I could play the game. I finished setting everything up, plugged the game in, and pushed power. Nothing happened, then a second later I heard a pop, and a bit of smoke rose out of the 7800 near the power connector. That console was thrown out and replaced with a new one. I still have the 1990 unit and the game has always seemed to work fine.

 

I have recently noticed that the Winter Games ROM download doesn't match my own cartridge. My cartridge seems to have a lot of sounds missing that are present in the ROM. I'm not sure where the ROM came from but it probably came from this site. Here's a list of what the sound is like on my cartridge:

 

+Theme song at startup is present.

-There is no beep when selecting items on the menu.

-The swoosh sound when you ski in the biathlon is missing.

+The rifle sounds during target shooting are present.

-The jingle during biathlon results doesn't play.

+The starting signal sounds in speed skating are present.

-There are no crowd sounds in speed skating.

-No sound effects or crowd noise in ski jump.

-All sound effects during the bobsled are missing.

-Jingle at the end of a bobsled run is missing.

-The theme might not play at the end of a competition, but don't remember clearly.

 

I'm guessing my cartridge was damaged and I just never realized it. But I don't see how my cartridge could have been damaged in such a selective way that the game still runs but with merely some sounds missing. Is there a version of the game with less sound, like I described, or is my cartridge damaged? I had thought of eventually fitting this cartridge with an EPROM socket, but if it's been damaged I should find a different one.

Edited April 22, 2005 by gdement

[DanBoris]

You are right, it's very odd that it would be damaged that selectively. If the game had a Pokey sound chip on the cart, then this would be more likely, but Winter Games doesn't use the Pokey.

 

Do other games work ok in your system? Have your tried cleaning the cartidge?

 

Dan

[Agent X]

Here's a list of what the sound is like on my cartridge:

 

+Theme song at startup is present.

-There is no beep when selecting items on the menu.

-The swoosh sound when you ski in the biathlon is missing.

+The rifle sounds during target shooting are present.

-The jingle during biathlon results doesn't play.

+The starting signal sounds in speed skating are present.

-There are no crowd sounds in speed skating.

-No sound effects or crowd noise in ski jump.

-All sound effects during the bobsled are missing.

-Jingle at the end of a bobsled run is missing.

-The theme might not play at the end of a competition, but don't remember clearly.

 

I'm guessing my cartridge was damaged and I just never realized it.  But I don't see how my cartridge could have been damaged in such a selective way that the game still runs but with merely some sounds missing.  Is there a version of the game with less sound, like I described, or is my cartridge damaged?  I had thought of eventually fitting this cartridge with an EPROM socket, but if it's been damaged I should find a different one.

839511[/snapback]

 

That's exactly how my 7800 Winter Games has always been. I was always disappointed that there was such a small amount of sound compared to other versions of the game; a couple of events were completely silent!

 

So, I don't think this is unique to your cartridge.

 

But, are you saying you're getting much more sound and music on a different ROM image? Are you playing this on an emulator, or a real 7800? Perhaps there are two different versions of the game (one with full sound, one with limited sound), or perhaps there's just one version that plays differently on different revisions of the 7800.

 

I'm very curious what other 7800 owners have to say about their personal experiences with the sound in Winter Games. For the record, my system is one with the expansion port on the left side.

[gdement]

You are right, it's very odd that it would be damaged that selectively. If the game had a Pokey sound chip on the cart, then this would be more likely, but Winter Games doesn't use the Pokey.

 

Do other games work ok in your system? Have your tried cleaning the cartidge?

 

Dan

840021[/snapback]

I don't remember ever cleaning it, but its been like this on every play ever since it was new. All my other games seem to work fine. Winter Games is the only game that differs from what I get in MESS. However, Winter Games is also the only bankswitched game I own, so maybe that's significant.

 

That's exactly how my 7800 Winter Games has always been. I was always disappointed that there was such a small amount of sound compared to other versions of the game; a couple of events were completely silent!

Agreed. I had played the Epyx games on a friend's C64 and was hoping for something similar. The shortage of sound really bugged me.

 

So, I don't think this is unique to your cartridge.

 

But, are you saying you're getting much more sound and music on a different ROM image? Are you playing this on an emulator, or a real 7800?

Yes, I'm getting much more sound from a ROM image that I downloaded from the internet, most likely from AA. I'm running it in MESS.

 

Perhaps there are two different versions of the game (one with full sound, one with limited sound), or perhaps there's just one version that plays differently on different revisions of the 7800.

 

I'm very curious what other 7800 owners have to say about their personal experiences with the sound in Winter Games. For the record, my system is one with the expansion port on the left side.

840344[/snapback]

 

I wish I had a way to dump my cartridge's ROM, it would be interesting to try it in MESS and see what it does.

 

I've only played my cartridge on one console, a newer 7800 which does not have an expansion port. The first console I tried it on was an older model with an expansion shell (don't know about the port itself), but that console died on the first try so I don't know what the sound would have been like.

 

 

My cartridge uses a "C100339 Rev. A" PCB with 8 jumpers. W2 and W5 are shorted, the rest are open. I noticed that Dan Boris documented a C300565 version of Winter Games in a document he typed up. Maybe these are different.

http://www.atarihq.com/danb/7800cart/7800cart.txt

 

The back of the board has a 41 87 date code on it. The ROM says

C031231-001

SHARP JAPAN

©1987 ATARI 8737 D

 

I'm now second guessing my memory, and on further recollection I feel confident that I got the game in December 1988, not 1990. In any case, this is clearly a 1987 version of the game.

[Clint Thompson]

Sounds interesting! I'd like to hear more about this too... I got Winter Games (no 7800 yet) so I'll have to wait to test mine out.

 

How big is Winter Games anyways?

[gdement]

Sounds interesting! I'd like to hear more about this too... I got Winter Games (no 7800 yet) so I'll have to wait to test mine out.

 

How big is Winter Games anyways?

840581[/snapback]

 

It's 128KB, and also has a 32KB RAM chip on the board, yet it can only use 16KB of it. I guess they had a surplus of 32KB SRAMs?

[+Mitch]

Sounds interesting! I'd like to hear more about this too... I got Winter Games (no 7800 yet) so I'll have to wait to test mine out.

 

How big is Winter Games anyways?

840581[/snapback]

 

It's 128KB, and also has a 32KB RAM chip on the board, yet it can only use 16KB of it. I guess they had a surplus of 32KB SRAMs?

842891[/snapback]

 

I don't believe there is a compatible 16K RAM chip. It goes from 8K (6264) to 32K (62256).

 

Mitch

[Bruce Tomlin]

I don't believe there is a compatible 16K RAM chip. It goes from 8K (6264) to 32K (62256).

 

That's right. SRAMs of that size range go by multiples of 4. In particular, the main sizes are 2K, 8K, 32K, and 128K.

[gdement]

I've finally confirmed this. There indeed are two different versions of Winter Games. I desoldered the ROM from my Winter Games board (which is apparently a reworked version of the C100339), and converted it into a 128KB flash cart. I have flashed the ROM from this site which has different sounds, and it works fine in the board. Graphics are the same (as far as I've noticed), but the sound is significantly different between the two versions. I played both in the same console.

 

Agent X indicated above that his sound is the same as mine, so it's unlikely that this is just a chip malfunction.

[Tempest]

Could it be a defective batch of carts? Sounds odd that Atari would release the game with minimal sounds and then redo it.

 

Tempest

[gdement]

Maybe - I wonder if they ran off some incorrect ROM images before getting the final version. It seems these sound effects might have been the last thing put in the game before it was called done.

 

For anybody wondering about the ROM - I don't think I have any way of dumping it. I don't have a proper EPROM burner - I programmed my flash chips using an old motherboard. I'm not sure there's any way of plugging a 28-pin mask ROM into a 32-pin BIOS socket.

[+Mitch]

If you don't mind shipping it out I can dump it once my EPROM programmer comes back from the shop.

 

Mitch

[shadow460]

Thanks to the list of sounds, I could tell which version I have. I haven't had a reason to boot up Winter Games since the 2600 version is lying around, so I'd forgotten how the sound is on it (my 7800 cart).

 

I do remember it making a distinct double click sound when I reloaded the rifle.

 

I wonder, too if it's just the ROM that is different. I'm getting a box from shining slade, and if that's different, then I'll have to track down the correct cart to go with it.

Edited July 1, 2006 by shadow460

[gdement]

Thanks to the list of sounds, I could tell which version I have. I haven't had a reason to boot up Winter Games since the 2600 version is lying around, so I'd forgotten how the sound is on it (my 7800 cart).

 

I do remember it making a distinct double click sound when I reloaded the rifle.

 

I wonder, too if it's just the ROM that is different. I'm getting a box from shining slade, and if that's different, then I'll have to track down the correct cart to go with it.

 

Just to clarify, both versions have the double click when reloading the rifle, as well as the gunshot sound. But only the better version has the swoosh sounds while skiing.

 

Here's a picture of my cartridge label, though I expect they all look the same. I don't have the box anymore:

 

Here's the telltale indication of a reworked C100339 board. U3 pin 11 was bent up off the PCB and shorted to pin 10. They also apparently cut some traces involving the WE pin on the RAM chip - my multimeter readings didn't match Dan Boris' schematic in that area.

It's possible that the versions with bad sound might also be the ones with this reworked PCB, but I see no reason why those factors would have to coincide. The better ROM runs fine in this board.

 

As noted above, this PCB has date code 4187, and the ROM chip has date code 8737.

[shadow460]

Does yours have a glossy label, too?

[gdement]

Does yours have a glossy label, too?

 

I guess I'm not familiar with those... it's somewhat reflective of the light, but no more so than any of my other carts, so I think the answer is no.

[shadow460]

My Winter Games label is noticeably more glossy than the other 7800 games I've got.

I wonder why they'd make some glossy and other not.

[+Mitch]

OK, here is the BIN dump for the "other" version of Winter Games. Thanks to gdement for sending the ROM to me to be dumped.

 

One thing I noticed is that there is no sound at all in the Bobsled event in this version!

 

I think it is pretty safe to say that Atari sent the wrong version of the BIN file out to manufacturing and fixed it in the next run. I'm guessing this is a very late beta and is complete other than some of the sounds.

 

Mitch

WINTER_GAME_ALT.zip

[shadow460]

Thanks for the bobsled info, guys. Now I know for certain I have the later version, which, by the way, has gotten some good play time since this thread came up.

[gdement]

Thanks for getting this dumped, Mitch. Good old Atari quality control. Not only is there no sound in the Bobsled, but there's none in the Ski Jump either. Overall a pretty sleepy version. At least I finally understand why so many people liked this game better than me. I think somebody owes us a refund.

[shadow460]

Yeah, and that somebody would be Jack Tramiel, yes?

[Agent X]

Here's a picture of my cartridge label, though I expect they all look the same. I don't have the box anymore:

 

Just for the record, my cartridge label looks the same, with the same copyright dates.

[Godzilla]

freaky! im gonna have to find out which i have. how lame of atari.

[+Random Terrain]

I also have the crappy one with no sound. I got it for free with most of my other 7800 games, so I can't complain.

[Tempest]

Ok, I hate to dig up old threads, but what was the general consensus on this? Did Atari accidentally release a beta version of Winter Games? Was it a batch of defective carts? Did they decide that the sounds sucked and release an updated version? I want to know because I'm curious as to if this is a true prototype/beta or not.

 

Tempest