Rik Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Another SCREWUP that only ATARI can do so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Ok, I hate to dig up old threads, but what was the general consensus on this? Did Atari accidentally release a beta version of Winter Games? Was it a batch of defective carts? Did they decide that the sounds sucked and release an updated version? I want to know because I'm curious as to if this is a true prototype/beta or not. Tempest I don't think we have any way to be sure what happened. Mine was purchased at Toys 'R Us in 12/88, but the cart is from Fall 87. I don't know the origins of Mitch's cart, and it sounds like RT got his used so it's an unknown. Atari might have been in a hurry for the 87 Christmas release. The use of a reworked C100339 also suggests they were in a rush. But it's hard to figure they wouldn't have had time to add a few sound effects. Maybe the programmer just didn't meet his deadline and they shipped anyway. Somebody on the inside might know whether it was a mistake or deliberate. Also, if somebody disassembles the ROM maybe they could tell if it's a production defect (I have no idea what kind of corruption pattern you'd see). They weren't defective carts (post-rework anyway) because the bad cart can run the improved ROM with a transplant. Also, the rom dump shows the same symptoms in an emulator, so it's definitely the ROM data at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 (edited) As per mitch's request I dug up a Winter Games I had in my pile of 7800 boards and mine is on a 339 series board and has the 8737 date code. No sound in the bobsled run on mine, damn you quality control, for that I'm turning this POS into possible mission Edited May 8, 2007 by Shawn Sr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I would be ok with looking at a disassembly, but just not right now (due to time concerns). As a prelim test, can someone do a byte-compare? That's how I started with Possible Mission awhile back. By having this info, we could figure some things out. For example, It could be that a whole 4K segment is "gone". In this case, I'd think that whatever programmer was used simply messed up programming a chunk. This would allow them to get through Quality control. However, if there are many, little differences scattered throughout the cart, then I'd think we'd have a proto version. Anyone have frhed (free-hex-editor)? Or, some other diff tool? It'd be neat to list what segments differ, and how big the different sections are in length, i.e.: From 0x4000 to 0x4244, 0x244 bytes differ, etc. -John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Very different indeed. diff_wintgames.txt So, does anyone want to do a check to see if things just got moved around bank-wise? i.e., check for a set of common bytes in the first column that is the same in the second column, but offset perhaps by 4K. -John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpaul Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ok, I hate to dig up old threads, Tempest So for the record, there's no way of telling which carts have sounds and which do not? I have the version with no sound. I fired up mess and sure enough, there IS sound. That sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Ok, I hate to dig up old threads, Tempest So for the record, there's no way of telling which carts have sounds and which do not? I have the version with no sound. I fired up mess and sure enough, there IS sound. That sucks. Unfortunately I don't think you can tell from the label. However... I think carts built with the reworked C100339 PCB are more likely to be the early, bad version. They probably only used this PCB until the C300565 became available. The older PCB isn't the *cause* of the problem, but it just indicates that it's an early cart so it's more likely to also have an early ROM on it. You can distinguish cartridge PCB's if you look close at the edge connector. They all have some solder pads that are visible from the end, and they're arranged differently on different carts. http://www.atarihq.com/danb/7800cart/a7800cart.shtml There's lots of sealed, new 7800 carts floating around out there. I would imagine they're all newer versions - the old ones wouldn't have ended up as overstock. For whatever it's worth, I bought one of the sealed Winter Games carts a while back and it was the good version. Edited March 10, 2008 by gdement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpaul Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ok, I hate to dig up old threads, Tempest So for the record, there's no way of telling which carts have sounds and which do not? I have the version with no sound. I fired up mess and sure enough, there IS sound. That sucks. Unfortunately I don't think you can tell from the label. However... I think carts built with the reworked C100339 PCB are more likely to be the early, bad version. They probably only used this PCB until the C300565 became available. The older PCB isn't the *cause* of the problem, but it just indicates that it's an early cart so it's more likely to also have an early ROM on it. You can distinguish cartridge PCB's if you look close at the edge connector. They all have some solder pads that are visible from the end, and they're arranged differently on different carts. http://www.atarihq.com/danb/7800cart/a7800cart.shtml There's lots of sealed, new 7800 carts floating around out there. I would imagine they're all newer versions - the old ones wouldn't have ended up as overstock. For whatever it's worth, I bought one of the sealed Winter Games carts a while back and it was the good version. Thanks gdement! I'll be on the lookout. Have been recently been playing the 7800 alot.... It's my only console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Damn. I have the missing sounds version as well. It's a good thing I have another one coming my way... Hopefully it's the newer version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I was lucky.I bought a sealed 7800 Winter Games not too long ago.Overlooking the issue,i plugged it in,and YES!,I,ve got the good version.I also lucked out on the other sealed 7800 game BallBlazer,i recieved the rare red end label one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireTiger Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I have a good WG - I have all my sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Funny, I never picked up on this. And for once I won the lottery, mine has all the sounds. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Crap! Even the one I just got doesn't have the sounds! Looks like I may have to replace the chip with an eprom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I didn't know there were 2 versions of Winter Games. I'm glad mine has all the sounds. I like the biathlon and ski jump events. By the way, i counted 15 doves in the opening ceremonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Interesting, as I am the one who "did" Winter Games for the 7800. The two versions have to be from me... I am trying to remember, if Winter Games was the game I delivered to the show at the Hilton (I think it was) in Manhattan. Pretty sure it was WG... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Interesting, as I am the one who "did" Winter Games for the 7800. I demand a refund! Oh, right; I didn't pay for mine. Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I still can't recall if the WG I have is which version. Guess I should plug it in to find out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I demand a refund! Hang on, I think I have a nickel in my pocket Somehow, this is all making sense, in that, I did supply a version of WG to Atari for testing that didn't include all the music. I remember a guy, Tom something I think, coming to my home office to work with me on the music. He was a VP-of-something at Atari. VP of Video Game development? Something like that. Ring any bells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I demand a refund! Hang on, I think I have a nickel in my pocket Somehow, this is all making sense, in that, I did supply a version of WG to Atari for testing that didn't include all the music. I remember a guy, Tom something I think, coming to my home office to work with me on the music. He was a VP-of-something at Atari. VP of Video Game development? Something like that. Ring any bells? Tom Sloper? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Too bad Atari discontinued the use of date codes on the actual cartridges (which they used on 2600 and 5200 games). Then we'd be able to narrow down the early version of the game to a certain date range. Ahh well.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZanU Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Mine has sound! : ) (And a box and manual) I love the Ski Jump, my son (who is 3) asks me "What is that guy doing". I've still not perfected my landings, but it is fun none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Too bad Atari discontinued the use of date codes on the actual cartridges (which they used on 2600 and 5200 games). Then we'd be able to narrow down the early version of the game to a certain date range. Ahh well.. ..Al Actually they have date codes on the ROM chips. I have opened several copies of the no sound version but the only copy of the "final version" I have is the one in my collection. Once I get another copy I will open it and compare the dates. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Too bad Atari discontinued the use of date codes on the actual cartridges (which they used on 2600 and 5200 games). Then we'd be able to narrow down the early version of the game to a certain date range. Ahh well.. ..Al Actually they have date codes on the ROM chips. I have opened several copies of the no sound version but the only copy of the "final version" I have is the one in my collection. Once I get another copy I will open it and compare the dates. Mitch Well, that still makes it a bit difficult to identify the version without opening the cartridge up. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Too bad Atari discontinued the use of date codes on the actual cartridges (which they used on 2600 and 5200 games). Then we'd be able to narrow down the early version of the game to a certain date range. Ahh well.. ..Al Actually they have date codes on the ROM chips. I have opened several copies of the no sound version but the only copy of the "final version" I have is the one in my collection. Once I get another copy I will open it and compare the dates. Mitch Well, that still makes it a bit difficult to identify the version without opening the cartridge up. ..Al If my memory serves me correctly, the cart board is also different between the two version. I should verify that though. Still not the easiest way to tell though. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Tom Sloper? That sounds familiar. He had a full beard at the time, if I remember correctly, so this doesn't look like my memory of him. But could be. I guess he wasn't a Veep, but Director. Again, could be. Maybe definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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