Odyssey 2: Under Appreciated?

[ozyr]

With all this talk about how bad 2600 Donkey Kong is, I wonder if anyone remembers the Intellivision port...

 

2600 Donkey Kong is like your favorite ice cream, where Intellivision Donkey Kong is like a raw clam and egg smoothie.

 

Pickaxe Pete, incidentally, is like your favorite ice cream, but in a smaller portion and without sprinkles.

880845[/snapback]

 

Yes, I remember the INTV version. Worse than the 2600 version.

 

I love the ice cream comparison. It explains the difference between these game perfectly. Marvelous!!!

[supercat]

Yes! It's plays a pretty good game of chess. Graphics are ok, but not great.

880895[/snapback]

 

What do the graphics look like? Since the O2 only has four sprites, I'd think they'd have to so something interesting to 'jinx' the graphics, but I can't think how that would work. I don't think the 8048 is fast enough for 'venetian blinds'; does the cart do somethng else?

[superbee]

and for the people who keep saying there are only about 5-6 good games for the O2, here's my list of game that I think are good:

 

Alien Invaders - Plus! (yes, I like this one)

Amok!

Atlantis

Attack of the TimeLord!

Cosmic Conflict!

Freedom Fighters!

K.C. Munchkin!

K.C.'s Krazy Chase!

Kill The Attacking Aliens

Killer Bees!

Monkeyshines!

P.T. Barnum's Acrobats!

Planet Lander

Pong (yes, this new compilation is rather good - just my opinion)

Quest For The Rings

Smithereens!

Turtles!

UFO!

 

Well Ozyr, I like to add some games to your list

 

Super bee

Looney Ballon

Blobbers

Neutron Star

Clay Pigeon

Demon Attack

Q*bert

Super Cobra

Frogger

Air Battle

[Tempest]

My biggest gripe with the O2 (and the Intellivision for that matter) is the built in character set. The problem with built in character sets is that all the games start looking the same, and programmers start using characters for things that they probably shouldn't have because they couldn't create their own characters (look it's an arrow, a tree, a mushroom, a player, etc.). Not to mention the O2's character set is very clunky looking, very reminiscent of early 2600 games. However since the 2600 didn't rely on built in graphics, they graphics actually improved as the console matured since the programmers got better and more creative. The O2 on the other had saw it's graphics in a standstill since they were built into the system with little way to improve on them.

 

The O2 games are creative, I'll give them that. Many of the game ideas are unique and highly inventive because they had to be since the O2 didn't give the programmer much to work with. However with all the systems limitations, even inventive games couldn't keep the system from looking 'second rate' when compared to the 2600.

 

Tempest

[Dr. Van Thorp]

Somewhere on the web, I once found very detailed documentation of the Odyssey 2's inner workings. It is actually more advanced than the 2600, but seems to have been designed with very specific game ideas in mind, which makes it limited in some ways. But I think that it is a very capable machine, and its potential was never fully tapped.

[supercat]

Somewhere on the web, I once found very detailed documentation of the Odyssey 2's inner workings. It is actually more advanced than the 2600, but seems to have been designed with very specific game ideas in mind, which makes it limited in some ways. But I think that it is a very capable machine, and its potential was never fully tapped.

881815[/snapback]

 

Look earlier on this thread. I'd say there were three main issues with the O2:

 

-1- Most of the on-screen display objects must be drawn from a pool of 64 shapes, most of which are rather bland.

 

-2- The display documentation warns that bad things will happen if display registers are written mid-frame, but some games apparently do so without ill effect, so the restriction doesn't seem to be absolute; I don't know what the actual rules are.

 

-3- There was little third-party interest in the game until it was too late to matter.

 

Some of the later games show that it's possible to do a lot of things with the O2 that its designers never dreamed of. Unfortunately, the O2's situation didn't get beyond that the 2600 was in back when Atari was cranking out all the different variations of Combat and Air Sea Battle.

 

Indeed, I would expect that if you had shown a lot of O2 games to Atari's programmers/engineers back in the late 1970's, they would have thought the O2's games were far beyond anything their unit could do. Fortunately for the Atari, a lot of programmers weren't content to live within the 2600's limitations so they worked around them.

[+moycon]

I'll join the "yes, it under appreciated and deservedly so" croud.

 

Doesn't matter how many reasons you give for why it's under appreciated, the fact is, most real gamers aren't attracted to the system because the actual gameplay and graphics of the majority of the games leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Simple as that.

[Foxsolo2000]

In the UK the O2 was known as the Philips G7000 Video Pac and it actually out lasted the Intellivision and Colecovision here. I own an old games catalogue from the mid 80's which showed the next generation of the G7000 which was labeled the G8000. This new system was silver in colour and possessed a small. built in black and white monitor. The catalogue used a real picture of the system but said that it was comming soon. My question was the G8000 ever released either in the US or the UK.

[classicgamingguy]

I'll join the "yes, it under appreciated and deservedly so" croud.

 

Doesn't matter how many reasons you give for why it's under appreciated, the fact is, most real gamers aren't attracted to the system because the actual gameplay and graphics of the majority of the games leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Simple as that.

882182[/snapback]

 

Yeah, that I realize (and I'll ignore the real gamer remark...j/k). In that respect for gameplay, it's rather bland (although Alien Invaders Plus can get a little stressful when that big eye zooms down to kick your a$$..

 

4jays has some cheap carts-only games that I can pick up for under 15 bucks, and that should get me started. I'm more serious about collecting for my 5200 at the moment.

 

Steve

[Atariboy]

Anyone know where I could get a O2 in good shape with the necessary cables and controllers? And where can the multicart be bought? I used to have it bookmarked, but lost the link.

 

This thread has me wanting one now.

[GrizzLee]

Anyone know where I could get a O2 in good shape with the necessary cables and controllers? And where can the multicart be bought? I used to have it bookmarked, but lost the link.

 

This thread has me wanting one now.

882322[/snapback]

 

Darn, I passed on one at a swap meet this weekend for $1. Yes, he only wanted a $1. It was a little beat up with the original box (or what was left of the box), but he claimed it worked and it had a couple of games.

 

I passed, because I already have a nice working O^2. Sorry.. if I had known

 

Regards,

-Lee

[Stingray]

where can the multicart be bought? I used to have it bookmarked, but lost the link.

 

 

882322[/snapback]

 

I think this is the guy who makes them: http://www.classicgamecreations.com/main.html

 

-S

[ozyr]

and for the people who keep saying there are only about 5-6 good games for the O2, here's my list of game that I think are good:

 

Alien Invaders - Plus! (yes, I like this one)

Amok!

<snip>

Turtles!

UFO!

 

Well Ozyr, I like to add some games to your list

 

Super bee

Looney Ballon

Blobbers

Neutron Star

Clay Pigeon

Demon Attack

Q*bert

Super Cobra

Frogger

Air Battle

881749[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the additions. I totally aggree with these, especially Q*bert and Frogger.

[ozyr]

Yes! It's plays a pretty good game of chess. Graphics are ok, but not great.

880895[/snapback]

 

What do the graphics look like? Since the O2 only has four sprites, I'd think they'd have to so something interesting to 'jinx' the graphics, but I can't think how that would work. I don't think the 8048 is fast enough for 'venetian blinds'; does the cart do somethng else?

880903[/snapback]

 

Graphics are fairly simplistic, as with most Odyssey2 games. As for sprites, I'm not sure on the technical part of it, but it can display far more than 4 object on the screen with no flicker at all (that's one thing I've always like about the O2). Chess displays the whole board, with somewhat unique graphics for the pieces. OF course, the cart is not really just a cart, but an add-on component. This contains the extra ROM and RAM space to be able to actually play a decent game of chess.

[supercat]

Graphics are fairly simplistic, as with most Odyssey2 games. As for sprites, I'm not sure on the technical part of it, but it can display far more than 4 object on the screen with no flicker at all (that's one thing I've always like about the O2). Chess displays the whole board, with somewhat unique graphics for the pieces.

 

The O2 hardware is designed to display four sprites that can be any shape, twelve objects whose shapes are predefined (letters, numbers, the walking man, etc.), and four groups of four horizontally-arranged objects each whose object shapes are likewise predefined.

 

My guess from your description would be that the O2 is using some tricks to form the chessmen out of 'pieces' of the predefined shapes. Sorta clever if that's what they're doing. Any possibility of a screenshot?

[ozyr]

Graphics are fairly simplistic, as with most Odyssey2 games. As for sprites, I'm not sure on the technical part of it, but it can display far more than 4 objects on the screen with no flicker at all (that's one thing I've always like about the O2). Chess displays the whole board, with somewhat unique graphics for the pieces.

 

The O2 hardware is designed to display four sprites that can be any shape, twelve objects whose shapes are predefined (letters, numbers, the walking man, etc.), and four groups of four horizontally-arranged objects each whose object shapes are likewise predefined.

 

My guess from your description would be that the O2 is using some tricks to form the chessmen out of 'pieces' of the predefined shapes. Sorta clever if that's what they're doing. Any possibility of a screenshot?

884531[/snapback]

 

Ok. Thanks for the info. I'm really into the O2, but honestly don't know much about programming it (yet) and how it exactly works. As for Chess screen shots, you may have to wait a bit. I've got a working Europe system and the game, but no way to get it into my computer (not yet, it's on the back burner, along with a ton of other projects). Sorry... I could take a screen picture, but they always turn out like crap. (I'll see what I can do though - no promises).

[ccc---]

As for the person who 'doesn't understand Pick Axe Pete', I would figure you don't understand Donkey Kong either! This is one of the best games for the O2.

 

 

Nonsense. DK has an obvious objective besides being a high score game: get to the girl. It's easy to figure out what is happening and why.

 

PAP is a high score game only. Going thru the doorway changes nothing in terms of game play. Without reading the book, it's mess of just breaking rocks and grabbing random crap for no apparent reason. It doesn't hold a candle to DK in any shape or form. Even the VCS version of DK.

880149[/snapback]

And I say PAP is far superior to 2600 DK ... you have to get into it ...

 

But maybe it's just a matter of taste

 

I think it is a pity that the four Parker games weren't released in the US (well in fact there were at least six but only four were released). They are all good to great imo. Frogger and Q*Bert just kick ass, Popeye is very nice and Super Cobra, well has also a special charm

Edited September 24, 2005 by ccc---

[Jetboot Jack]

Hi!

 

I have a 7400 videopac plus (the much rumoured successor to the 02) system, and both ehnanced (old games with new backdrops, plus carts) and some 7400 system exclusives that are pure hi-res - it's a nice machine, kinda like a colecovision (240x192 res etc).

 

Pity it never really flew, as it shows what the 02 coulda become...

 

sTeVE

[kirin jensen]

Lotta hate out the for the O2 among the atarians... easy to see why, given several games on the O2 easily beat comparable games on the 2600, namely:

 

UFO>Asteroids

KC Munchkin>Pacman

Pick Axe Pete>Donkey Kong

 

The Atarians have never forgiven the O2 for having a cool version of Pacman when they didn't.

 

It's a small library of goodness - including UFO, the KC games, Attack of the Timelord, Killer Bees and Pick Axe Pete.

 

The multicart would be the best way to check everything out on the console.

 

And now, Mr. Roboto! shows you just how underrated the console truly is.

 

And before you bitter Atarians speak, go try and build an Archon-style for the 2600, then tell us how much it sucks. What's that, you say? You don't think it's very doable? Poor babies...

[supercat]

And before you bitter Atarians speak, go try and build an Archon-style for the 2600, then tell us how much it sucks. What's that, you say? You don't think it's very doable? Poor babies...

 

Should be quite doable. Actually, I have a kernel for a Boulderdash-style game which allows smooth animation of moving monsters, falling rocks, etc. Check it out in my blog. Runs just fine on real hardware.

[SteveW]

I recently picked up a boxed Odyssey2 with a copy of Attack of the Timelord!, and finally there's a game on the O2 that stands out in my mind. It's a pretty nice game. So many other O2 games feel kind of bland, but Timelord is a good shooter.

[Seob]

I really like the system. And here in the netherlands it was sold a lot. So you could play it easily at friends back then.

It really has some nice games, and given the fact that there aren't that many games for the system 100- it is a nice system to get a complete collection of.

There arent that many game for it, but there aren't that many bad games for the system. Hence, one of the reasons for the videocrash of '84 was the vast amout of crap games released for the 2600.

So the 2600 may have a larger amout of games released for it, it also has many, many more bad games. Just as for the playstation.

I really like all my old systems, and play every one of them every once in a while. But the one i play most is my videopac (o2).

[Tempest]

The O2 had potential, but it was ultimately doomed because of its clunky looking internal character set. I call this the Intellivision Syndrome. When consoles are forced to rely on their internal character sets for graphics, games start looking odd and very similar. Sometimes this isn't a problem (all the Intellivision sports games used the running man, but they looked good), but when you start trying to do things like arcade ports you start running into problems. Is it an arrow? Is it a tree? Is it a mushroom? Is it a space ship? When you're only using the internal character set, the answer to these questions is "Yes".

 

The O2 also had a problem with lack of support. They had one main programmer and 3 or 4 secondary programmers. They had to churn out all the games for the O2 since it never had third party support except at the very end of its lifespan. I've always wondered what the O2 could have done with more programmers and more support. I don't think the games could ever get to to the level of the later 2600 games, but it probably could have been on par with the graphics from the 81-82 games rather than the 78-80 games.

 

Tempest

[ZylonBane]

It's interesting to note the first-gen 2600 and O2 titles look VERY similar (the ball/tank/gunfight/brick era games), but once you get beyond that the O2's limitations really stand out. Comparing screenshots of the last-gen third-party ports illustrates this quite brutally.

[Big Player]

And before you bitter Atarians speak, go try and build an Archon-style for the 2600, then tell us how much it sucks. What's that, you say? You don't think it's very doable? Poor babies...

 

The main challenge with making an Archon style game for the 2600 is displaying many differently shaped sprites at once.

 

The challenge with the O2 is getting differently shaped sprites at all. Even Mr. Roboto! has that problem.