Go Fish! 1K

[retrocon]

Well, in that version you die with one hit too.

 

As feature-filled as Go Fish is, I like the movement in the 1K version a lot better.

910905[/snapback]

Movement of the player-controlled fish, or the other fish?

 

Anyway, I keep saying that I'm done, but I keep finding more bytes...

 

But this is probably it. There are zero bytes left. I might find a few more, I suppose. But for now:

912411[/snapback]

 

Did you make it tougher? Seems so.

 

But I really think he should start out at the smallest fish size there is. He seems too big at the start. I think the big sense of accomplishment is watching your fish grow from a tiny goldfish to a big whale.

[vdub_bobby]

Did you make it tougher? Seems so.

 

But I really think he should start out at the smallest  fish size there is. He seems too big at the start. I think the big sense of accomplishment is watching your fish grow from a tiny goldfish to a big whale.

912446[/snapback]

Well, here's a version where you start out at the smallest size.

 

I expect complaints from people who play this one...

gofish1k.bin

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Smallest is IMO better.

[vdub_bobby]

Here's the source, plus the binary that goes with it (identical except a couple more free bytes). Four free bytes.

GoFish1K_source.zip

gofish1k.bin

[ZylonBane]

Well, in that version you die with one hit too.

 

As feature-filled as Go Fish is, I like the movement in the 1K version a lot better.

Movement of the player-controlled fish, or the other fish?

The player fish. Feels a lot more zippy than the full version, where it feels like it takes ages to move up and down the screen.

[vdub_bobby]

Well, in that version you die with one hit too.

 

As feature-filled as Go Fish is, I like the movement in the 1K version a lot better.

Movement of the player-controlled fish, or the other fish?

The player fish. Feels a lot more zippy than the full version, where it feels like it takes ages to move up and down the screen.

912667[/snapback]

It is a lot more zippy. In the full version, your maximum speed increases as you increase in size. In the 1K version, I didn't have room to implement any limits, so you can go fast when you are little and fast when you are big. You accelerate slower when you are big in both versions, though.

[ZylonBane]

The 1K version is more realistic then. A small fish has less mass and less surface friction to deal with, which is why those little buggers can really dart around (as anyone who's kept a real aquarium can attest).

 

And realism aside, it's just more FUN to be super-zippy as a small fish. IMHO as the size increases both the player and enemy fish should get slower, to compensate for the decreasing room to maneuver. That way the fundamental gameplay smoothly morphs as you progress, from a fast-reflex twitch game (like Tempest 2000) to a more thoughtful, almost strategic game (like Iron Soldier).

Edited August 17, 2005 by ZylonBane

[vdub_bobby]

The 1K version is more realistic then. A small fish has less mass and less surface friction to deal with, which is why those little buggers can really dart around (as anyone who's kept a real aquarium can attest).

 

And realism aside, it's just more FUN to be super-zippy as a small fish. IMHO as the size increases both the player and enemy fish should get slower, to compensate for the decreasing room to maneuver. That way the fundamental gameplay smoothly morphs as you progress, from a fast-reflex twitch game (like Tempest 2000) to a more thoughtful, almost strategic game (like Iron Soldier).

913360[/snapback]

That's fine in theory, but in practice I didn't like it. Actually, in practice, a game where at the highest levels everything moved in slow motion would be boring as hell, no matter how strategic.

 

But I wanted Go Fish! to start out very very easy - easy to stay alive, easy to control, etc. So the enemy fish start out slow, the player's fish starts out slow (though he can accelerate (i.e., change direction) quickly), and there is lots of room to swim around.

 

At the highest levels, it is very very difficult: the enemy fish move very quickly, your fish moves only marginally faster, at top speed, than when smaller but it takes a long time to change directions, plus everyone is much bigger so there isn't a lot of room to juke and jive around in. It turns out to be pretty strategic at the higher levels: to survive for more than a few seconds you have to plan your swoops in and out of danger carefully; lurking in the reeds until a good opening appears to go through.

 

I like the progression in the 8K version; though it certainly won't please everyone - in any case, the 8K version is done and won't change; the 1K version is what it is because there isn't room for anything more complicated.

 

And after doing a very little research on the net, I remain unconvinced by your argument that the very fastest fish are the smallest.

[retrocon]

The 1K version is more realistic then. A small fish has less mass and less surface friction to deal with, which is why those little buggers can really dart around (as anyone who's kept a real aquarium can attest).

 

And realism aside, it's just more FUN to be super-zippy as a small fish. IMHO as the size increases both the player and enemy fish should get slower, to compensate for the decreasing room to maneuver. That way the fundamental gameplay smoothly morphs as you progress, from a fast-reflex twitch game (like Tempest 2000) to a more thoughtful, almost strategic game (like Iron Soldier).

913360[/snapback]

That's fine in theory, but in practice I didn't like it. Actually, in practice, a game where at the highest levels everything moved in slow motion would be boring as hell, no matter how strategic.

 

But I wanted Go Fish! to start out very very easy - easy to stay alive, easy to control, etc. So the enemy fish start out slow, the player's fish starts out slow (though he can accelerate (i.e., change direction) quickly), and there is lots of room to swim around.

 

At the highest levels, it is very very difficult: the enemy fish move very quickly, your fish moves only marginally faster, at top speed, than when smaller but it takes a long time to change directions, plus everyone is much bigger so there isn't a lot of room to juke and jive around in. It turns out to be pretty strategic at the higher levels: to survive for more than a few seconds you have to plan your swoops in and out of danger carefully; lurking in the reeds until a good opening appears to go through.

 

I like the progression in the 8K version; though it certainly won't please everyone - in any case, the 8K version is done and won't change; the 1K version is what it is because there isn't room for anything more complicated.

 

And after doing a very little research on the net, I remain unconvinced by your argument that the very fastest fish are the smallest.

913390[/snapback]

 

 

Much to my horror, I must agree with ZylonBane.

 

From the version I have played on the net, this game should be really hard to survive when you are small. That is the really addictive part, that it is some way like nethack in that there is some luck involved in surviving long enough to get big.

 

Then as you get big, the challenge really changes. You don't have to avoid as many fish, but it is really tough to avoid the ones you do because you move more slowly.

 

Make it hard, really hard from start to finish. Don't be afraid to make it almost impossible. That is what is addicting about it, just like nethack.

[ZylonBane]

And after doing a very little research on the net, I remain unconvinced by your argument that the very fastest fish are the smallest.

I recommend you head to your local pet store and gather some empirical data. With your bare hands.

[tmont]

From the version I have played on the net, this game should be really hard to survive when you are small. That is the really addictive part, that it is some way like nethack in that there is some luck involved in surviving long enough to get big.

913415[/snapback]

 

Uh... the game is already done. You can buy it from this site, so telling him the way things should have been is kind of pointless, and a little bit rude. There was also a 10 page thread that's been going on for the last six months where information like this might have been helpful. And I think vdub_bobby has maintained that the flash games that are floating around on the internet were not to his liking, which is why it is not a direct port of one of them, and which would explaing why he changed some things. And being easy at the beginning and progressively getting harder is pretty much a time-honored tradition of just about every video game on the planet. I don't many games that start off difficult, and I play a lot of video games. It's already pretty challenging because if you get touched by anything, you have to start completely over.

 

Sorry if I sound rude, but it sounds like you're nit picking a game that's already been finished. A lot of people have devoted a lot of time into making these homebrew games, and it sounds like you're unsatisfied. If I misinterpreted what you were saying, I'm sorry.

Edited August 18, 2005 by HeckYesIDid

[retrocon]

Sorry if I sound rude, but it sounds like you're nit picking a game that's already been finished.  A lot of people have devoted a lot of time into making these homebrew games, and it sounds like you're unsatisfied.  If I misinterpreted what you were saying, I'm sorry.

913613[/snapback]

 

No, sorry if I sounded rude.

 

I wasn't referring to the 8K rom version at all. I actually haven't tried the release yet. And also I like the 1K version a lot and it plays fine and there's no space left for any changes anyway. I think I was just arguing game theory, that's all. It's fun to talk about. Bounce ideas around. Sometimes it's surprisingly subtle what makes a game truly 'fun'.

 

I totally appreciate how hard homebrew stuff is and I meant no disrespect at all.

[+batari]

And after doing a very little research on the net, I remain unconvinced by your argument that the very fastest fish are the smallest.

I recommend you head to your local pet store and gather some empirical data. With your bare hands.

913428[/snapback]

This is from a website I found, written by a Ph.D. and expert on fish:

 

If one considers a fish’s swimming capabilities in relation to its size, however, it is generally true that a small fish is a more able swimmer than a much larger one. On the other hand in terms of speed in miles per hour a big fish will, all other things being equal, be able to swim faster than a smaller fish.

 

It seems that although a smaller fish would be able to change direction quicker (which would appear as "darting around") it would reach a slower top speed than a large fish.

 

Though I think this is kind of irrelevant anyway, as Go Fish! is a game and not an ichthyological simulator...

[vdub_bobby]

All that game theory is nice but...I found a bug.

 

It's hard to fix a bug when you have 1 free byte. Took me about an hour last night.

 

I also rejiggered the distribution of enemy fishes to prevent early game waiting. Might make it too easy once you reach the biggest size, though.

 

Also spent some time tweaking the colors.

gofish1k.bin