ZylonBane Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 So... since the new games on the Flashback 2 are true 2600-compatible binaries, will they be getting entries in the AtariAge 2600 Rarity Guide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 That's a good question, since they ARE true 2600 games...and they arent carts or prototypes. Surely they belong in they guide somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Jess Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Well, since I doubt we'll ever see dumped roms of these I think it might be possible that it'll be collectively placed under a specific flashback2 entry. And any game featured could be included under ( F ) for flashback2 instead of a rarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Well, since I doubt we'll ever see dumped roms of these I think it might be possible that it'll be collectively placed under a specific flashback2 entry. That would be ridiculous. The database isn't set up that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Well, since I doubt we'll ever see dumped roms of these I think it might be possible that it'll be collectively placed under a specific flashback2 entry. That would be ridiculous. The database isn't set up that way. 910161[/snapback] Got H and P already. Should be easy enough to add F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 So... since the new games on the Flashback 2 are true 2600-compatible binaries, will they be getting entries in the AtariAge 2600 Rarity Guide? 910089[/snapback] Why should they be? They have nothing to do with the original systems. As none of these will ever see an actual cart (in the form of a prototype, homebrew, hack or repro), I don't see how they could possibly be considered legitimate 2600 releases. If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. It'd be a f***en joke to include them. WTF makes them "true" 2600 compatable binaries? If they really are, I guess we'll be seeing them floating around the newsgroups in a few weeks. Perhaps Infogrames will release them since they are so concerned about what the classic game collecting community has to say about their products and practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralstorm Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I wish the new games would eventually get leaked or dumped or whatever, if only so the talented hack-artists could take 'em and make them into something good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 So... since the new games on the Flashback 2 are true 2600-compatible binaries, will they be getting entries in the AtariAge 2600 Rarity Guide? 910089[/snapback] Why should they be? They have nothing to do with the original systems. As none of these will ever see an actual cart (in the form of a prototype, homebrew, hack or repro), I don't see how they could possibly be considered legitimate 2600 releases. If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. It'd be a f***en joke to include them. WTF makes them "true" 2600 compatable binaries? If they really are, I guess we'll be seeing them floating around the newsgroups in a few weeks. Perhaps Infogrames will release them since they are so concerned about what the classic game collecting community has to say about their products and practices. 912922[/snapback] Maybe they should be included in the hacks database, since they are all hacks of existing binaries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. You're thinking of the FB1 (assuming you're thinking at all), which was based on NES hardware. The FB2, on the other hand, is an actual clone of the original VCS hardware. The new games look like 2600 games because they ARE 2600 games. Lord Helmet, only some of the new games are hacks. Others, like Pong and Caverns of Mars, were programmed from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Lord Helmet, only some of the new games are hacks. Others, like Pong and Caverns of Mars, were programmed from scratch. 913096[/snapback] Ah yes. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Maybe they should be included in the hacks database, since they are all hacks of existing binaries... I don't think Adventure 2 (which seems to use a different kernel), Caverns of Mars, or Lunar Lander could be classified as hacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 So... since the new games on the Flashback 2 are true 2600-compatible binaries, will they be getting entries in the AtariAge 2600 Rarity Guide? 910089[/snapback] Why should they be? They have nothing to do with the original systems. As none of these will ever see an actual cart (in the form of a prototype, homebrew, hack or repro), I don't see how they could possibly be considered legitimate 2600 releases. If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. It'd be a f***en joke to include them. WTF makes them "true" 2600 compatable binaries? If they really are, I guess we'll be seeing them floating around the newsgroups in a few weeks. Perhaps Infogrames will release them since they are so concerned about what the classic game collecting community has to say about their products and practices. 912922[/snapback] I think some of us would like to see these new VCS ROM's dumped and put into carts or perhaps downloadable form. Probably won't happen though. I do however agree that it would definately be redundant to include them in the AA Rarity Guide. They are definately not rare because anyone can go into a Wally World and get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 WTF makes them "true" 2600 compatable binaries? If they really are, I guess we'll be seeing them floating around the newsgroups in a few weeks. Perhaps Infogrames will release them since they are so concerned about what the classic game collecting community has to say about their products and practices. 912922[/snapback] Dude, what are you smoking? And you're a mod here? Seriously, they're "true" 2600-compatible binaries because they are running on 2600-compatible hardware. If someone were to take the roms and plug them into a real 2600, they would play. That makes them qualify as much as any of the homebrews being released nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 This is an interesting debate: AtariAge does not provide the binaries of other dedicated systems ("Pong"), but it does offer many prototype ROMs as well as a product similar in function to the FB2, the "32 in 1" games cartridge for the 7800. I think that I agree with Zylon Bane's suggestion that the FB2 binaries could be provided by AtariAge, but I would feel uncomfortable seeing them on this site during the commercial release of the FB2 units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 This is an interesting debate: AtariAge does not provide the binaries of other dedicated systems ("Pong"), but it does offer many prototype ROMs as well as a product similar in function to the FB2, the "32 in 1" games cartridge for the 7800. I think that I agree with Zylon Bane's suggestion that the FB2 binaries could be provided by AtariAge, but I would feel uncomfortable seeing them on this site during the commercial release of the FB2 units. 913223[/snapback] That's not quite what ZylonBane is suggesting, assuming I'm understanding him correctly. He's not suggesting the ROMs themselves be made available by AtariAge, just that the new games could be given entries in the AtariAge database. The binaries would not have to be available for there to be database entries. For example, see the entry for Ebivision's Pac-Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 We are not talking about the binaries themselves. What we mean is the titles themselves. Should they be added to the database as 2600 games? Correct me if I'm wrong on this Zylonbane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 I think that I agree with Zylon Bane's suggestion that the FB2 binaries could be provided by AtariAge That's NOT what I'm suggesting. I'm simply proposing that information and screenshots for the new FB2 games be added to the database. It's unfortunate that the whole thing is labeled the "Rarity Guide" since that's only a small part of what's really a general-purpose game/rom/manual/screenshot database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Ok, I misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. You're thinking of the FB1 (assuming you're thinking at all), which was based on NES hardware. The FB2, on the other hand, is an actual clone of the original VCS hardware. The new games look like 2600 games because they ARE 2600 games. Lord Helmet, only some of the new games are hacks. Others, like Pong and Caverns of Mars, were programmed from scratch. 913096[/snapback] Were they programmed with legacy hardware in mind? I am well versed in the internal workings of both the FB1 and FB2. The FB2's new games are meant to emulate legacy software, not to run on legacy hardware. Encryptions were put in place specifically to make sure that they would not work in legacy hardware which does not qualify them as 2600 games. If a dedicated systems section were added, that'd be one thing, but to include them in the 2600 database is laughable. BTW, the database is a rarity guide, not just a database. The collecting community, such as myself use the rarity guide as a guide for determining rarity, not to seach the latest FB2 news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 If they are included, you'll see me promptly leaving this scene never to return as they have nothing to do with the original system and many of them are only programmed to resemble what they might have looked like on an original VCS. You're thinking of the FB1 (assuming you're thinking at all), which was based on NES hardware. The FB2, on the other hand, is an actual clone of the original VCS hardware. The new games look like 2600 games because they ARE 2600 games. Lord Helmet, only some of the new games are hacks. Others, like Pong and Caverns of Mars, were programmed from scratch. 913096[/snapback] Were they programmed with legacy hardware in mind? I am well versed in the internal workings of both the FB1 and FB2. The FB2's new games are meant to emulate legacy software, not to run on legacy hardware. Encryptions were put in place specifically to make sure that they would not work in legacy hardware which does not qualify them as 2600 games. If a dedicated systems section were added, that'd be one thing, but to include them in the 2600 database is laughable. BTW, the database is a rarity guide, not just a database. The collecting community, such as myself use the rarity guide as a guide for determining rarity, not to seach the latest FB2 news. 913323[/snapback] What did the FB2 programmers beta test the newly developed ROM's on (ie: emulators like stella or z26)? Were the games at that point able to be played on real hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What did the FB2 programmers beta test the newly developed ROM's on (ie: emulators like stella or z26)? Were the games at that point able to be played on real hardware? 913326[/snapback] You'd have to ask Curt that question. IIRC, there was an art school contest for some of these games (not all) and many only resembled what a 2600 game would be. Only a handful of the people who developed them know machine language which leads me to believe they were not tested in that manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 The FB2's new games are meant to emulate legacy software, not to run on legacy hardware. Encryptions were put in place specifically to make sure that they would not work in legacy hardware which does not qualify them as 2600 games. Ummm, if the new games are only a simulation of 2600 hardware, why would ANY measures be required to stop them from running on a real 2600? BTW, the database is a rarity guide, not just a database. You have that exactly backwards. The database is not just a rarity guide. Dude, seriously... lay off the cough medicine, take a nap, and come back tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What did the FB2 programmers beta test the newly developed ROM's on (ie: emulators like stella or z26)? Were the games at that point able to be played on real hardware? 913326[/snapback] You'd have to ask Curt that question. IIRC, there was an art school contest for some of these games (not all) and many only resembled what a 2600 game would be. Only a handful of the people who developed them know machine language which leads me to believe they were not tested in that manner. 913329[/snapback] I, as well as I would think many others, assumed that all of the new ROM's are actual VCS 6502 assembly binaries and that they were all running through the 2600-on-a-chip inside the FB2. Are you saying that some of these new FB2 are just games programmed in some other modern programming language designed to conform to the graphical limitations of the original VCS hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I think that I agree with Zylon Bane's suggestion that the FB2 binaries could be provided by AtariAge That's NOT what I'm suggesting. I'm simply proposing that information and screenshots for the new FB2 games be added to the database. It's unfortunate that the whole thing is labeled the "Rarity Guide" since that's only a small part of what's really a general-purpose game/rom/manual/screenshot database. 913267[/snapback] The game database ended up being called a "Rarity Guide" because that's how it started out on the 2600 Nexus a long time ago. Back then, it was simply an Excel spreadsheet that Alex put together and it basically just had each game listed and its associated rarity. When we put AtariAge together, we turned it into a real database, adding many fields as well as the image content. It probably should be changed at some point to something a bit more generic. As for the new games in the Flashback2, the binaries for those certainly won't be appearing on AtariAge anytime soon, even if someone does manage to extract them. I'm not sure about adding the entries to the database. It's a pretty unique situation. They are new 2600 games, but they are part of a standalone product and not available to play on classic 2600 hardware. They probably should get added at some point, but not sure yet how they would be classified (probably something like "D" for Dedicated console). And I have reasons to believe that the FB2 games were tested on real 2600 consoles. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 You're thinking of the FB1 (assuming you're thinking at all)... Dude, seriously... lay off the cough medicine, take a nap, and come back tomorrow. 913334[/snapback] No problem. While you're at it, come back when you've rejoined the human race. Your argument lost all credence with me the second you resorted to personal insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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