The 7800: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

[River Raider]

Just got my first Atari 7800 from an Ebay auction yesterday, and here are some of my thoughts on the 7800....

 

The Good:

Very attractive and sleek console design that would look good next to today's high-tech video and audio equipment. Also, the console is easier to keep clean than the venerable 2600 with all of its ridges.

 

Controller ports on the front of the console....which when you think about it, makes one heck of a lot more sense than having the ports on the back!

 

A detachable RF cable instead of being built in like on my 2600's. This allows the cable to be replaced more easily if damaged or worn out, or in my case, it allows me to use an RF to Coax adapter and a short Coax cable instead of the noise-ridden original RF cable. Very clean picture using this slight modification. Thanks for the suggestion, Danno!

 

My particular 7800 doesn't seem to have any problems playing some of the 2600 titles that I have seen mentioned here at Atari Age.... Pitfall 2, Robot Tank, and various Imagic titles. I don't own a Supercharger, so no big deal to me whether or not the SC works on my 7800.

 

How sweet is it that you can play all (or almost all) of the 2600 titles on the 7800? As far as I am concerned, you just can't beat that!

 

Ok, you can beat that...if you get a Cuttle Cart 2. Having the entire 2600 and 7800 library on one cartridge is way cool. Unfortunately, I will either have to wait for a price cut for the CC2 or save my money for a while. $200 dollars is a little out of my price range at the moment. I mean, after all, I did get my entire 7800 system, 12 7800 titles, and multiple controllers for around 30-35 dollars off of Ebay, so 200 smackaroos is little hard to justify right now.

 

The Bad:

Really not too much to complain about with the 7800...In my opinion anyways...

But here are a couple of the things that do bug me with the 7800...

 

The channel selector and difficulty switches on my 7800 seem to be unmarked. Ok, the channel selector switch is marked with a circle on one side and a square on the other, but what the heck is that supposed to mean? Channel 2 is square and channel 3 is circle?? What kind of Chronic were they smoking when they came up with that?

 

The cartridge port seems to have been designed by the same stoners that labeled channels 2 and 3 as square and circle. You just about have to use a mallet to seat some of my non-Atari produced cartridges. And I don't know about you, but I am a little leery of using brute force on any electronics...let alone electronics housed in 20 year old plastic. I guess I will Dremel out the cartidge port a bit to get a better fit, but you'd think they would have made the port compatible with ALL Atari 2600 cartridges since backwards compatibilty was one of the selling points for the 7800.

 

The Ugly:

Now I have read other AtariAgers posts about how atrocious the ProLine controllers are....But just how absolutely horrible those ProLines are cannot be appreciated until you actually hold one in your hand. Just holding them and trying to hit the buttons makes me hear Tuco's voice say "Ergonomics?!? We don't need no stinkin' ergonomics!!!" But like many things, there is a silver lining to the ProLines...They give me a whole new appreciation for my CX-40's and Tac-2 joysticks. In fact, I think I will crack open one of my Tac-2 joysticks and see if there is a way to modify one of the fire buttons to be the second fire button on the ProLine. If anyone knows if this is possible, let me know. Having a decent controller to use will go far to enhance my 7800 experience....

 

 

 

All in all, I am very happy that I have finally acquired my own 7800 system and have joined the ranks of the Atari Elite. Now, if only I can scratch up enough money to snag a Cuttle Cart 2.....Mmmmm, Cuttle Cart goodness...Ooooohhhhh!

[Lord Helmet]

Pretty sure you could mod a Tac-2. You would need the cord from a 7800 stick as well as the two resistors off of the board of the 7800 stick. I'm surprised no one has done this yet. I would imagine it would be an easy mod. I'd have to see the inside of a Tac-2 to be sure. If I had a Tac-2 I might try it.

 

The only thing a 7800 proline stick is good for is parts for modding other controllers. Other than that they are complete and total useless crap.

Edited September 21, 2005 by Lord Helmet

[River Raider]

Yeah, I tried to mod the Tac-2, but I must not have the wiring right, because the fire button goes into auto fire (and you can't stop it)...And then video artifacts appear on the screen. As soon as that happened I shut off the machine. No damage seems to have been done.

 

If anyone knows how to mod the Tac-2 to be used as a two button 7800 controller, some help would be appreciated. I think the Tac-2 would be a great 7800 controller.....or a heck of a lot better than the ProLines....

[jaybird3rd]

I've always thought that the three biggest mistakes that Atari/GCC made in designing the 7800 were: installing RF-modulated audio/video output (it should have been composite right from the start), leaving out the sound upgrade (it was part of the original specifications for the console but was later cut out), and designing sub-par controllers (the dual fire-button upgrade was a clever bit of engineering but the ergonomics were all wrong on both the ProLine and the European joypad).

 

I believe that these three problems really hurt the 7800's image when it was (finally) released, especially at a time when the NES had composite video built right in and was putting out sounds that were better than anything you heard coming out of the 7800. I installed an internal composite video upgrade in my 7800 and it was such an improvement over RF that it was like getting a whole new system, and that's why I use it for my 2600 games also. The games that used a POKEY chip in the cartridge for sound were a real improvement, too, and there should have been more of them (or even games that used newer sound hardware). As for the controllers, I don't want to get too much into self-promotion here, but having a pair of 7800 Space Invaders arcade joysticks on my 7800 has given a whole new meaning to many of the arcade ports in particular (especially Robotron: 2084 ), and I rarely use my 7800 without them anymore. In my opinion, they're the easiest and most effective upgrade for the 7800 and one that no self-respecting 7800 owner should be without.

 

Despite all its shortcomings, though, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the 7800. Maybe it's just my natural inclination to favor the underdog, because the 7800 is the ultimate underdog among video game consoles. It had so much potential, but it was never given a chance to shine and never got the support it deserved from Atari. I'm so glad to see hobby developers adopting the system and producing new high-quality titles, and I plan to do the same myself when I finally finish learning how to develop for it (when I'm not so busy with school and my other obligations).

Edited September 24, 2005 by jaybird3rd

[RickHarrisMaine]

Ugly? try playing Food fight on this system. Man, it blows.

 

Good? Galaga, Robotron, Mario Brothers, and Donkey Kong.

[+remowilliams]

Ugly?  try playing Food fight on this system.  Man, it blows. 

 

Good? Galaga, Robotron, Mario Brothers, and Donkey Kong.

938317[/snapback]

You can't say 7800 and blows in the same breath without mentioning Karateka.

 

Friends don't let Friends play 7800 Karateka!

[Lastblade]

Ugly?  try playing Food fight on this system.  Man, it blows. 

 

Good? Galaga, Robotron, Mario Brothers, and Donkey Kong.

938317[/snapback]

 

Am I crazy that I like Food Fight? And Galaga was a horrible port It is just so disappointing, esp compared to the NES one.

 

But the rest are good.... and I always say, Desert Falcon = fun.

[DominiRican05]

Ugly?  try playing Food fight on this system.  Man, it blows. 

 

Good? Galaga, Robotron, Mario Brothers, and Donkey Kong.

938317[/snapback]

 

Am I crazy that I like Food Fight? And Galaga was a horrible port It is just so disappointing, esp compared to the NES one.

 

But the rest are good.... and I always say, Desert Falcon = fun.

938351[/snapback]

 

I got a 7800 from Radio Shack a few years ago, and I remembered having a blast with it, particularly because I was going through a huge 2600 phase, and was glad to have 2 systems in one. It was cool going back and forth between the old school and the less old school system. :-) But for a while now the system has been collecting dust, and after hearing so many dismal reviews of most 7800 games I'm not sure if it's worth dusting off. So, I wanted to know what are some of the top games for the 7800?

[DracIsBack]

Ugly?  try playing Food fight on this system.  Man, it blows. 

 

Put 'em up!!!!!

[Trip_Cannon]

Ugly?  try playing Food fight on this system.  Man, it blows. 

 

Good? Galaga, Robotron, Mario Brothers, and Donkey Kong.

938317[/snapback]

You can't say 7800 and blows in the same breath without mentioning Karateka.

 

Friends don't let Friends play 7800 Karateka!

938344[/snapback]

 

Agreed! I know we've had this conversation many a time but when it all comes down to it, this port blows.

[+remowilliams]

Agreed! I know we've had this conversation many a time but when it all comes down to it, this port blows.

938427[/snapback]

Mightily so. I wouldn't be so godawful offended by it if I hadn't played and enjoyed sooooo much the A8 and A][ versions.

 

7800 Food Fight while not exactly on my hot list, at least didn't make me want to take a crap in the box and UPS it back (like 7800 Karateka). Atari came real close to finding out just what brown could do for them!

[Zonie]

Too bad the sound upgrade wasn't offered as just that...and upgrade. Plugged into the expansion port or a passthrough cartridge (like the knuckles cart on the genny).

 

Too bad Jack T was such a dumbass. A Pokey equiped 7800 would have been tops. It's also too bad that the market didn't have such a huge assortments of controllers like the current consoles do today.

 

As for the Rags on Galaga, I think it was a good port if you consider what we had for arcade ports back then. Even the CV ports weren't all that great, and the CV software was really buggy.

 

Advertising would have made this console successful. I didn't even know it existed until I happened upon one at park-n-swap in the mid-1990's.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Zonie

[Gregory DG]

Food Fight rules. Definitely one of the best games for the system.

[jaybird3rd]

Too bad the sound upgrade wasn't offered as just that...and upgrade. Plugged into the expansion port or a passthrough cartridge (like the knuckles cart on the genny).

938619[/snapback]

That would have been a great product ... a POKEY passthrough cart with a cartridge connector on top that wasn't so tight and could accomodate third-party 2600 cartridges. It's too bad that a POKEY couldn't have been included in the original design right from the start, but that 7800 board is crowded enough as it is and I can't see where they could have put one.

Edited September 27, 2005 by jaybird3rd

[River Raider]

Just got one of my old Genesis controllers out of storage. Geez! These things are soooo much more comfortable than the ProLine controllers. I am going to have to look up how to mod them for 7800 2-Button goodness.

 

Unfortunately, the Sega controller doesn't seem to get along with my 7800 Asteroids cartridge. Too bad too, if it did, I would bust out one of my Sega controllers with the Turbo buttons....Mmmm rapid fire....

[frogstar_robot]

Yeah, I tried to mod the Tac-2, but I must not have the wiring right, because the fire button goes into auto fire (and you can't stop it)...And then video artifacts appear on the screen.  As soon as that happened I shut off the machine.  No damage seems to have been done. 

 

If anyone knows how to mod the Tac-2 to be used as a two button 7800 controller,  some help would be appreciated.  I think the Tac-2 would be a great 7800 controller.....or a heck of a lot better than the ProLines....

937344[/snapback]

 

I found a nice ASCII picture of the wiring diagram you need but I couldn't get it to look right here. So I took a snapshot of my browser's rendering of it.

 

[shadow460]

Just got one of my old Genesis controllers out of storage.  Geez!  These things are soooo much more comfortable than the ProLine controllers.  I am going to have to look up how to mod them for 7800 2-Button goodness. 

 

Unfortunately, the Sega controller doesn't seem to get along with my 7800 Asteroids cartridge.  Too bad too, if it did, I would bust out one of my Sega controllers with the Turbo buttons....Mmmm rapid fire....

940032[/snapback]

 

When it comes to controllers, Asteroids is anal. Mine refuses to work with my Power Sticks, which work great with all 2600 titles.

I believe that Asteroids treats any controller it doesn't recognize as a Pro-Line. It then moves the hyperspace function around and stops you from shooting.

Mean 18 Golf is even worse--it refuses to budge with any of my controllers except a Pro Line. It doesn't hurt my hands to play it, but still it should at least work with a CX-40.

[sukotsu9]

Advertising would have made this console successful.

938619[/snapback]

Advertising and release on it's original ship date (ca. 1984). It would've trumped the existing systems and allowed more time for (good) game development before the NES came out. Then again, the game market was in wain, and it was the NES that kicked things into gear again.

 

What really would've been cool is if Atari had gone through with the Famicom deal and released a NES in 7800 case that was backwards compatible (at least through the "expansion" slot). Once again, Atari on top!

[Foxsolo2000]

What was truly ugly about the 7800 was the lack of original software available for it. Karateka was trully appalling and Chop Lifter in my view was sadly disapointing. Having Asteroids built in was a mistake for a better game would have surely been something like Donkey Kong. Apart from that it was a nice looking system with a lot of potential that was let down by a heathen called Tramiel.

[supercat]

I found a nice ASCII picture of the wiring diagram you need but I couldn't get it to look right here.  So I took a snapshot of my browser's rendering of it.

940088[/snapback]

 

So is the idea that pushing a fire button on the 7800 controller will trigger both a low on the fire button input and a high on one of the paddle inputs? Seems like a clever approach, if a bit dodgy.