NES -> Atari 2600 port

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

The 7800 buttons map to the paddle lines, so theoretically the 2600 could read them.

Theoretically...

 

Unfortunately, for all I know, none ever succeeded practically.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[vdub_bobby]

Hi there!

 

The 7800 buttons map to the paddle lines, so theoretically the 2600 could read them.

Theoretically...

 

Unfortunately, for all I know, none ever succeeded practically.

There's a bunch of stuff on [stella] dealing with just this issue. I'm pretty sure it cannot be done.

 

The problem is that, in the paddles, the +5V is run through the paddle lines; that's what the 2600 reads. So if you aren't putting a voltage through the paddle lines, the 2600 can't do anything with those.

 

It wouldn't hard to test, though. Just write a simple binary that displays different things depending on different paddle values, hook up some 7800 controllers, push the buttons, and see if anything is read.

[ZylonBane]

Well that sucks. Pretty darn short-sighted of Atari, when they could just as easily have wired it up as if each button were a paddle.

 

Hmmm, or maybe that would have required an extra chip. Those controllers are wired up rather oddly, so that each 7800 button feeds into the paddle lines AND the trigger line.

[vdub_bobby]

Well that sucks. Pretty darn short-sighted of Atari, when they could just as easily have wired it up as if each button were a paddle.

 

Hmmm, or maybe that would have required an extra chip. Those controllers are wired up rather oddly, so that each 7800 button feeds into the paddle lines AND the trigger line.

993885[/snapback]

The "paddle" lines and the "trigger" line are all the same thing. On the 2600, the paddles connect the +5V to the paddle lines (through the variable resistor).

 

I believe Atari wired the 7800 fire buttons through both a distinct line and a shared line, the shared line being the same as the 2600's fire button line, so that when you play 2600 games on your 7800 you can use either fire button on your 7800 controller as the single 2600 fire button.

 

What I don't get is why the 2600 paddles don't have two buttons on them? With both paddles hooked up (to one port), you use only 2 of the 5 available lines for buttons!

[ZylonBane]

The "paddle" lines and the "trigger" line are all the same thing.

Ah, no, they're not. The paddle lines are used for the paddles. The trigger line is used for the joystick fire button.

EDIT: Dangit, I'm thinking of the Atari computer pinouts. Always assumed it was the same on the 2600.

 

 

What I don't get is why the 2600 paddles don't have two buttons on them?

Duh. Because they didn't see any possible need for more than one fire button on a paddle controller. Same reason the joystick didn't have three fire buttons.

Edited January 4, 2006 by ZylonBane

[vdub_bobby]

The "paddle" lines and the "trigger" line are all the same thing.

Ah, no, they're not. The paddle lines are used for the paddles. The trigger line is used for the joystick fire button.

EDIT: Dangit, I'm thinking of the Atari computer pinouts. Always assumed it was the same on the 2600.

My point is that the actual "lines" are the same. It seemed a worthwhile point when I wrote that, but I was probably just being overly nitpicky.

What I don't get is why the 2600 paddles don't have two buttons on them?

Duh. Because they didn't see any possible need for more than one fire button on a paddle controller. Same reason the joystick didn't have three fire buttons.

993933[/snapback]

To add more buttons to the joystick would have required additional hardware in the console; the TIA would have to be modified. Well, unless you did something wonky with the paddle lines.

 

But anyway, to add more buttons to the paddles would only require a controller with the appropriate lines wired up.

 

The 2600 reads these things:

UDLR and the FIRE button. Plus the two paddles, but they are read in an extremely inconvenient way.

 

The joystick, obviously, uses UDLR for the stick and FIRE for the fire button.

 

The paddles use the paddle lines for the paddles and LR for the two fire buttons. They could use UD for other fire buttons.

[SeaGtGruff]

Well that sucks. Pretty darn short-sighted of Atari, when they could just as easily have wired it up as if each button were a paddle.

 

Hmmm, or maybe that would have required an extra chip. Those controllers are wired up rather oddly, so that each 7800 button feeds into the paddle lines AND the trigger line.

993885[/snapback]

 

Some ideas:

 

Use masking tape to combine two joysticks into a single hand-held input device that has two sticks and two buttons!

 

Or, tape a keypad controller to a joystick, or a paddle to a joystick, etc. (You get the drift.)

 

If you don't want to tape your controllers together (I sure wouldn't), then someone could design some special "frames" that the different controllers could be popped into to hold them in place beside each other, then pop them out when you don't need them to be combined into "super controllers."

 

Hmm, I said they were ideas, not *good* ideas. Although frankly, I'd sure love to have a frame or whatever to hold two joysticks together while playing Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

Michael Rideout

[vdub_bobby]

The ultimate is the Super Duper 2600 Race Car Controller:

 

A steering wheel connected to a paddle, a gas pedal connected to another paddle, a brake and gear shifter connected to the joystick and trigger. That's all in one port, too! So build two, write the two-player kick-azz driving game to go with them, and you're all set.

[~llama]

Why not just wait on the custom Knight Rider keypad and steering-wheel extravaganza?

 

</sarcasm>

[vdub_bobby]

M.bin

[Atariboy2600]

I wonder if there's any news on this Super Mario, Metroids post?

[Shawn]

I wonder if there's any news on this Super Mario, Metroids post?

1001262[/snapback]

 

 

I would like to knwo also cause Metroid is WAY out of my league to make myself but I sure would love to buy a copy.

[raskar42]

I think dk3 is a best bet, it's basicly space invaders.

 

it wasn;t the best game on the list but i think is has the chabce to be the most successful

[vdub_bobby]

I wonder if there's any news on this Super Mario, Metroids post?

1001262[/snapback]

Eh, me and my bro have been working on the music for Metroid. Here's the latest; still a work in progress. Cycle through the songs with the fire button:

 

1. Title (64 bpm)

2. Item Discovery

3. Spawn

4. Secret Corridor

5. Brinstar

6. Mother Brain

7. Title (56 bpm)

8. Title (75 bpm)

 

The title theme is the most polished.

 

As for actually coding the game...well, I dunno. It would need a ton of sprite work, beyond what I could do, probably. Probably beyond what I want to do, anyway. I'll probably just be playing around with it off and on for the forseeable future.

mm.bin

Edited January 17, 2006 by vdub_bobby

[Atariboy2600]

I wonder if there's any news on this Super Mario, Metroids post?

1001262[/snapback]

Eh, me and my bro have been working on the music for Metroid. Here's the latest; still a work in progress. Cycle through the songs with the fire button:

 

1. Title (64 bpm)

2. Item Discovery

3. Spawn

4. Secret Corridor

5. Brinstar

6. Mother Brain

7. Title (56 bpm)

8. Title (75 bpm)

 

The title theme is the most polished.

 

As for actually coding the game...well, I dunno. It would need a ton of sprite work, beyond what I could do, probably. Probably beyond what I want to do, anyway. I'll probably just be playing around with it off and on for the forseeable future.

1002116[/snapback]

 

WOW. Hearing this song made my hair on my neck rised up. Man I may use this Metroids Labels if this game ever get off ground

Edited January 18, 2006 by Atariboy2600

[Atariboy2600]

I was wondering about how this can be pulled off as in the amount of sprite space can it be like in tape fourm like Starpath done that could expanded the RAM of the 2600 from 128 bytes to 6,272 bytes?

[vdub_bobby]

I think it could be pulled off in a 32K cart. Though, as I mentioned elsewhere, almost all of my initial estimates of ROM size have been off by a factor of 2.

 

And I don't *think* RAM is necessarily the issue, though it would be tight. But it could just use the Memcard for extra RAM.

[Foxsolo2000]

I went for Super Mario Bros for the simple reason that it was a great game

[Cootster]

DK3, because that is one of my favorite games on MAME, but the NES version is way too easy even w/o an turbo controller (with turbo, anyone could play it forever)

 

Metroid would also be really cool, though.

[fabventure2600]

i dont know who is erasing my posts,so...one advice....

if you kepp erasing it i still post again.................

 

This is a free opinion forum or what?,we have right to reply

againist some freshy people that quote bullshit againist us....

id like to participate this thread with some real opinion,when i post real

stuff here,some ZB appears here,and put his-her stupid comments...

what.the.hell?.........

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

You continue portuguese swearing, I continue deleting it, simple as that. This here is a public discussion forum about Homebrew Games Development, no fighting arena. If you have a personal problem with some member here, solve that in private, there's no public interest in that.

 

An excerpt from this forums guidelines:

 

Personal Attacks

 

While we understand some discussions can become heated, we will not tolerate members insulting each other in the public forums. Likewise, any racial, ethnic, gender-based insults or other personal discriminations are not permitted. The strength of your arguments goes out the window once you resort to personal attacks. If you find that you often get angry when discussing a certain topic, we suggest you refrain from involving yourself in such discussions.

 

By registering an account here, you have agreed to follow those rules.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Shawn]

Any more info on a possible metroid being made? I've got my fingers crossed.

[vdub_bobby]

I've been working on the music; that may be all that gets done. Or it may not.

[brpocock]

If you set up the button like the NES pad B: For Fire and A: For Jump then you can play both Super Mario and Metroid on the 2600, Also the same on Sega Master System or Genesis pad as well.

993567[/snapback]

 

Aha!

 

I heard this thread existed.

 

It's quite possible to connect custom controllers, as in, gutted and rewired, using a fairly simple "addressing" protocol. Whether it would be worthwhile to support such controllers in a game is left as an exercise to the reader...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82461&hl=

 

In point of fact, something like the 7800 controllers could be scanned using an adapter to move the sense lines around on the controller port. That'd be a simple "dongle," basically two DB-9 ports wired up to sort out the lines. I haven't gutted any SMS controllers, but the rumour is that NES controllers use a serial communications protocol that would probably require a decoder chip to create such an adapter.

 

A PIC / FPGA could probably make an NES, Genesis, &c. controller use the above addressing protocol, but perhaps some of the electronics gods on this site could do it cheaper?

 

(Thanks to MayDay for pointing me at this thread!)

[Atariboy2600]

If you set up the button like the NES pad B: For Fire and A: For Jump then you can play both Super Mario and Metroid on the 2600, Also the same on Sega Master System or Genesis pad as well.

993567[/snapback]

 

Aha!

 

I heard this thread existed.

 

It's quite possible to connect custom controllers, as in, gutted and rewired, using a fairly simple "addressing" protocol. Whether it would be worthwhile to support such controllers in a game is left as an exercise to the reader...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82461&hl=

 

In point of fact, something like the 7800 controllers could be scanned using an adapter to move the sense lines around on the controller port. That'd be a simple "dongle," basically two DB-9 ports wired up to sort out the lines. I haven't gutted any SMS controllers, but the rumour is that NES controllers use a serial communications protocol that would probably require a decoder chip to create such an adapter.

 

A PIC / FPGA could probably make an NES, Genesis, &c. controller use the above addressing protocol, but perhaps some of the electronics gods on this site could do it cheaper?

 

(Thanks to MayDay for pointing me at this thread!)

1006565[/snapback]

 

Cool info on the controller issue now all we need is the game it self