Tempest Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Is it possible to write Apple IIgs disk images to 3.5" disks using a PC? You can do this with Atari ST disks (using WFD Copy), but I haven't seen a utility for IIgs disk images. Failing this, is there something like ADT for 3.5" disks? It appears that ADT only works for 5.25" disks. tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Is it possible to write Apple IIgs disk images to 3.5" disks using a PC? You can do this with Atari ST disks (using WFD Copy), but I haven't seen a utility for IIgs disk images. Failing this, is there something like ADT for 3.5" disks? It appears that ADT only works for 5.25" disks. tempest 996000[/snapback] Have you looked into the "Catweasel"? That may be capable of doing what you need. Although from what I've heard it isn't excactly 100% perfect. ~telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Is it possible to write Apple IIgs disk images to 3.5" disks using a PC? You can do this with Atari ST disks (using WFD Copy), but I haven't seen a utility for IIgs disk images. Failing this, is there something like ADT for 3.5" disks? It appears that ADT only works for 5.25" disks. tempest 996000[/snapback] No the IIGS uses an imcompatible format. You can write them on a Mac that can read and write 800K disks though. Which is what I did. I've not found an ADT type transfer program either. Have you looked into the "Catweasel"? That may be capable of doing what you need. Although from what I've heard it isn't excactly 100% perfect. ~telengard 996003[/snapback] Though while I'm sure the Catweasel could do it, I've never seen the software to do it. I've got an older Amiga Catweasel and a new MK IV Catweasel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Kat Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Not without special hardware that isn't very easy to come by..and may not work in a modern PC. I'd recomend a Mac with an internal Floppy running something pre-OS X and a copy of Apple's Disk Copy. USB floppy drives won't cut it. There are some things about cross-platform and floppies on the CSA2 FAQ's diskettes section. http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/Csa2DSKETTE.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
else Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) Rather than writing Apple II disks from a PC, how about just reading PC disks from a Apple II? Apple IIgs System 6 (or 6.01 or 6.02) software can _READ_ 3.5" PC disks -- but not _WRITE_ them. So I would think it would work if the image can fit on the disk (probably needs to be compressed). So basically you would write the image to a PC disk, then read it in on the IIgs, then use the IIgs to create the disk image. Seems like it should work, but I haven't tried it personally.... Edited January 8, 2006 by else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 I guess I just don't understand why a disk can't be formatted for the IIgs on a PC. The ST is an incompatible format as well yet you can write those on a PC. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I guess I just don't understand why a disk can't be formatted for the IIgs on a PC. The ST is an incompatible format as well yet you can write those on a PC. Because Apple and PC drives are mechanically (not just format) incompatible. It's physically impossible to do. There are two options available. One, you can get an old mac with OS 7.5 and read IIgs and PC disks on that. You can just tape off the upper left slot on a standard 1.44 3.5 disk and it will format as an 800 meg Prodos disk. The other option is to use a null modem cable to transfer files using a telecom programm on both ends. Both work, but both are time consuming. I have just about every IIgs program ever made on disk using the above method. PM me if you want the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 I wonder if theres a way I can use my ethernet card to transfer files? Either that or I can use the FTP functionality in contiki and download them from a website. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Didn't you say you had an ADAM disk drive that you needed to test? IIRC, you could use a formatted Apple II floppy on the ADAM (and since SmartBasic is very similar to AppleBasic, all the better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I wonder if theres a way I can use my ethernet card to transfer files? Either that or I can use the FTP functionality in contiki and download them from a website. Tempest 996144[/snapback] That sounds mighty painful. You might want to consider a null-modem type transfer (PC->IIGS) using shrink/GSshrink to make the images a bit smaller and then writing them on the IIgs with Asimov (IIRC). Of course having a IIgs hard drive will help immensely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 Didn't you say you had an ADAM disk drive that you needed to test? IIRC, you could use a formatted Apple II floppy on the ADAM (and since SmartBasic is very similar to AppleBasic, all the better... 996155[/snapback] Really? That sounds interesting... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 The main thing you need to look out for are any programs that are heavy on "peeks" and "pokes" those are obviously not gonna run on the other system without heavy modifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 IIRC, you could use a formatted Apple II floppy on the ADAM (and since SmartBasic is very similar to AppleBasic, all the better... 996155[/snapback] Never heard that one before. I suppose that means with a bunch of work, you might be able to run some very bad AII Basic games on an Adam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
else Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) I guess I just don't understand why a disk can't be formatted for the IIgs on a PC. The ST is an incompatible format as well yet you can write those on a PC. Tempest 996093[/snapback] Don't know for how much detail you're looking for, but it goes like this... As you move from the inner tracks to the outer tracks, the tracks get physically longer. Apple used a variable speed motor and motor controller to change the motor speed depending on which track the head is on -- that enabled them pack more data on these longer tracks. PCs used a fixed speed motor and thus store the same amount of data on each track no matter where the head is located. That is why Apple can get 800K on a disk while a PC can only get 720K on a disk. So the data density stays constant on the Apple design, while it goes down on the outer tracks on the PC design. Apple's drives also had the ability to access each track at a fixed speed (this probably came at no extra hardware cost), which explains whey they can read and write PC disks. However, PC drives don't have variable speed motors in them so it is impossible for them to read or write Apple disks. In other words, it easy to make a variable speed motor behave like a fixed speed motor, but not vise versa. Or course, Apple's design was more complicated and thus more expensive. So when Apple moved to high density drives they ditched this scheme and went with the fixed-speed design just like the PCs. That is why both Apples and PCs both get 1.44M on high density disks and can read and write each other's disks. Edited January 8, 2006 by else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 A Catweasel is technically capable of doing this, but I don't think there is any software to support it. There might be something which can read a disk and save the raw CW data to let you copy the disk, but that doesn't help if all you have are disk images. The best solution is indeed an older Mac with built-in floppy drive, running 9.x or earlier and the Disk Copy program. Depending on the version of Disk Copy, it should support just about any IIgs 3.5" disk image you will find, even single-sided disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Well I've been tossing around a few ideas on what I can do. I think I'm going to try using the FTP functionality in Contiki to download the files off my website (via my Uther Ethernet card). Failing that, I'm going to try and use my SCSI Zip drive to transfer the files. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Well I've been tossing around a few ideas on what I can do. I think I'm going to try using the FTP functionality in Contiki to download the files off my website (via my Uther Ethernet card). Failing that, I'm going to try and use my SCSI Zip drive to transfer the files.Well, yeah, if you have a SCSI card in your IIgs, that's good, too. Those aren't exactly common, though. The HFS code on the IIgs is supposed to be just a bit less than 100% reliable, so it's not recommended over ProDOS for general use, but for file exchange on Zip disks, it ought to be just fine. Also, there's a ProDOS extension for the older MacOS. And the IIgs should be able to use pre-TCP/IP AppleShare mounts over LocalTalk, or possibly Ethernet if your card supports Ethertalk. MacOS 8.1 or 8.5 ought to be just right. Then you could use utilities on the IIgs itself to copy images to disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Well, yeah, if you have a SCSI card in your IIgs, that's good, too. Those aren't exactly common, though. Oddly enough I have two! I opened up a IIgs I got at AGE many years ago and found out it had a SCSI card in it! I already had a SCSI card in my current IIgs so now I'm about to trade it off. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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