pseudografx Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I just played a bit with the graphics from the C64 port of the Pinball Dreams game. Here is the result, which I consider pretty nice. Is there any programmer who would like to make a port? :-) The code for ball gravity handling and pinball table/objects masking could probably be copied from the C64 version. So it would remain to solve the flaps handling and fine scrolling and the game would be (almost) done :-) This is the 5-color version, which should perfectly fit into ANTIC mode 5, with no DLI color changes This is the multicolor version with about 5 DLIs that change some color registers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hehe... In theory it must be very simple... Using Antic 4 with multiple charsets & char inverson for the light FX and some DLIs, to have better visuals. The ball you can take from "Boinxx" including the logics and for Multiball, the 2nd and third ball can be used with separated players. The most graphics would have to be handled with the flippers themselves.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hehe... In theory it must be very simple... Using Antic 4 with multiple charsets & char inverson for the light FX and some DLIs, to have better visuals. The ball you can take from "Boinxx" including the logics and for Multiball, the 2nd and third ball can be used with separated players. The most graphics would have to be handled with the flippers themselves.... 1005397[/snapback] Unfortunately, theory is often far from reality :-) However, such a game is really missing on the small atari. All those ugly one-screen black&white atari flippers just don't make me say 'wow' :-). IMHO even the old good Mechanicus on the C64 is better. Btw, I don't think multiball is a must for such a game, but naturally, it would add some value. I already have the ball sprite (consisting of 2 overlay PMG objects) drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Unfortunately, theory is often far from reality :-) However, such a game is really missing on the small atari. All those ugly one-screen black&white atari flippers just don't make me say 'wow' :-). IMHO even the old good Mechanicus on the C64 is better. I never understood, how one can find those "black & white atari flippers" good... And, yes.... there are much gametypes missing on the small Atari. Btw, I don't think multiball is a must for such a game, but naturally, it would add some value. I already have the ball sprite (consisting of 2 overlay PMG objects) drawn. 1005410[/snapback] A game like Pinball dreams may use almost all free memory of a 64K machine, because when using Antic 4 , 22 charsets were needed. Screenmemory would take 800 bytes (200 scanlines) or 1200 bytes, when using 240 scanlines... 2K for PM would be needed too. That means ~ 25K for screendata. one can calculate with 4-8K for the music That means ~ 30K for the gamelogic... seems possible at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 That means ~ 25K for screendata.one can calculate with 4-8K for the music That means ~ 30K for the gamelogic... + priority map + collision map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 That means ~ 25K for screendata.one can calculate with 4-8K for the music That means ~ 30K for the gamelogic... + priority map + collision map 1005443[/snapback] + large status/score display Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) That means ~ 25K for screendata.one can calculate with 4-8K for the music That means ~ 30K for the gamelogic... + priority map + collision map 1005443[/snapback] + large status/score display 1005460[/snapback] Ofcourse... The scoreboard should be done with some double lined mode ... perhaps gr. 7 ... It's fast, it's less cpu And here a try for a musik piece.... the first 2-3 minutes are handled. Without samples ofcourse It's according to the C64s PD demo Edit: Oops... the main part is starting after nearly 2 minutes ... forgot the time Edited January 23, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 However, such a game is really missing on the small atari. All those ugly one-screen black&white atari flippers just don't make me say 'wow' :-). 1005410[/snapback] Here's one that's not bad, and not in black & white. APS.zip However something of the caliber you're proposing would be better. I never liked those black & white pinball games either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 I made another version of the table, this time with underlay sprites. I don't know though, if Atari could handle such a complex graphics in fast paced motion :-/ This version uses more colors than the c64 one, though that version still looks visually somewhat better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I made another version of the table, this time with underlay sprites. All sprites will be neccessary to reproduce the ball accurately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 I made another version of the table, this time with underlay sprites. All sprites will be neccessary to reproduce the ball accurately. 1005549[/snapback] The ball consists of only two sprites, so unless there are multiple balls on the table, two remainging sprites and all missiles can be used to add colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 All sprites will be neccessary to reproduce the ball accurately. The ball consists of only two sprites, so unless there are multiple balls on the table, two remainging sprites and all missiles can be used to add colors. The C64 Ball is 15x15 pixels with 3 colors and hires pixels. You can reproduce it exactly on A8, but it needs all sprites. You take one expanded sprite and use it for light grey and infront of that, you put 2 unexpanded sprites in medium grey and 2 more expanded sprites in dark grey. One more advantage in using hires sprites: You can copy the hires accurate ball movements to A8. Just shift the hires layer by one pixel to move it at hires resolution. It's possible since the ball is 15 pixels wide and not 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) That means ~ 25K for screendata.one can calculate with 4-8K for the music That means ~ 30K for the gamelogic... + priority map + collision map 1005443[/snapback] + large status/score display 1005460[/snapback] The score bar is minute compared to the collision and priority maps, play the game a bit more and you'll notice how tight the collisions are and that there's multiple levels of priority and collision for the Nightmare table; the ball has to go underneath the wire tracks and ignore them sometimes and roll along them others for example. 30K probably isn't enough for the game data, it's all RLE'd at the moment but it's got to the point where some of it is stored into the bitmap data and set to black on black (or blue on blue with Nightmare) to make it all fit - y'can't do that with an Atari. (The Ignition table graphics were done by me, by the way... =-) Edited January 24, 2006 by TMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 but 128k would be enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Great work, PG. Now if someone could code it... emkay: i prefer making music from a scratch (and with bass, otherwise a kitten dies ) Ofcourse music can play on three voices leaving one for f/x. There's still lack of games with both music and f/x in the same time. Edited January 24, 2006 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I made another version of the table, this time with underlay sprites. I don't know though, if Atari could handle such a complex graphics in fast paced motion :-/This version uses more colors than the c64 one, though that version still looks visually somewhat better. 1005521[/snapback] It looks very good to me, but I've never seen the original version. Only thing I would suggest is to clean up the smaller words and numbers so they are more readable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 All sprites will be neccessary to reproduce the ball accurately. The ball consists of only two sprites, so unless there are multiple balls on the table, two remainging sprites and all missiles can be used to add colors. The C64 Ball is 15x15 pixels with 3 colors and hires pixels. You can reproduce it exactly on A8, but it needs all sprites. You take one expanded sprite and use it for light grey and infront of that, you put 2 unexpanded sprites in medium grey and 2 more expanded sprites in dark grey. One more advantage in using hires sprites: You can copy the hires accurate ball movements to A8. Just shift the hires layer by one pixel to move it at hires resolution. It's possible since the ball is 15 pixels wide and not 16 1005561[/snapback] Umm, correct me if I'm wrong, but you can never create hires sprites on atari, unless they are done in software and in hires graphics/text mode. So the only possibility is to have 8x16 sprite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 but as i have seen PD (actualy c64 build) it's far more colourful (scrolling now incl. colour ram...) and the physics seems great so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Great work, PG. Now if someone could code it... emkay: i prefer making music from a scratch (and with bass, otherwise a kitten dies ) 1005703[/snapback] OK.... Please tell me what you name "real bass".... programmed on pokey with 50Hz... Here is the shortened tune, with the main part... It sounds nearly perfect when it comes to the originality of the AMIGA mod... due to the used sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 but as i have seen PD (actualy c64 build) it's far more colourful (scrolling now incl. colour ram...) and the physics seems great so far... 1005761[/snapback] Where to get a working piece for the C64 at least? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 but as i have seen PD (actualy c64 build) it's far more colourful (scrolling now incl. colour ram...) and the physics seems great so far... 1005761[/snapback] Where to get a working piece for the C64 at least? 1005770[/snapback] Grab the latest beta here: http://www.interstyles.nl/pd.d64 There are two tables (each in individual file on the disk image). The IGNITION table was much easier to adjust for Atari, but the other one should also be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVL Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Hey ppl I'm the coder of PD64 and was pointed to this by some friends for fun, here are the c64 versions of the tables, so you can compare. I'm really not interested in coding an Atari version (also, I don't know shit about the inner Atari workings..). But you can always ask if there's things you don't get (but only if you are serious about it!) here's a pack of all the sources and tools (only dl it if you really want it, it's quite big 8MB or so!) : http://www.interstyles.nl/Dev.rar grtz Edited January 24, 2006 by WVL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) The score bar is minute compared to the collision and priority maps, play the game a bit more and you'll notice how tight the collisions are and that there's multiple levels of priority and collision for the Nightmare table; the ball has to go underneath the wire tracks and ignore them sometimes and roll along them others for example. 30K probably isn't enough for the game data, it's all RLE'd at the moment but it's got to the point where some of it is stored into the bitmap data and set to black on black (or blue on blue with Nightmare) to make it all fit - y'can't do that with an Atari. With "tricks" you can do all.... an old C64 wisdom Ofcourse 16 colours per scanline are not available, but is it really necessary? Remembering back, when playing the AMIGA Version of PD, I recognized predefined ways for the ball(s). I have a game named "Balls of Steel" for the PC... It really can be named a successor to pinball dreams, because it has all goodies and even more. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/puzzle/ballsofsteel/index.html That game really offers realtime calculation for the ball, so the game is overall acting like a real pinball. PD doesn't. An interesting thing is, that people that like playing real pinball, don't like this game, because it doesn't play like a real pinball and the scrolling makes them nervous. Well... I don't like real Pinball, but I like those virtual pinball's with overall screenmovement (scrolling) There are only some points and some degrees, where the ball is reflected from the flippers. The rest, maybe, can be done with approximating the way of the ball & "level control".... for the correct movement over the desk of the pinball, going through wire-lanes ... we have the prior register (The Ignition table graphics were done by me, by the way... =-) 1005580[/snapback] Nice. Edited January 24, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVL Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Remembering back, when playing the AMIGA Version of PD, I recognized predefined ways for the ball(s). I have a game named "Balls of Steel" for the PC... It really can be named a successor to pinball dreams, because it has all goodies and even more. That game really offers realtime calculation for the ball, so the game is overall acting like a real pinball. PD doesn't. There's only gravity, friction, collisions and ball-spin in the c64 version. No predefined paths or anything. It's all really 100% calculated realtime. Fun thing is that I can even change the hardness of the walls locally, so some parts can be made softer (wood,flippers) and others harder (steel).. coolio Edited January 24, 2006 by WVL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 welcome on board... good to see more and more 6502 coders esp. c64 guys.... TMR, Sack, Fröhn, You... so people who know the evil opponent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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