Sam Tramiel interview - Next Generation 1995

[superjudge3]

Well the best info is the fact that he said that there were 150,000 jaguars sold to that point. My guess is there are probably 200,000 jaguars in total. Which would make this a pretty rare machine.

 

Yep, but it would be nice to know the exact number. You are probably close though.

 

I think it was closer to 300,000 by the time everything was set and done because I've read that AvP sold some 300,000 copies. Not everyone that had a Jaguar had AvP so maybe it's just a bit higher.

[DracIsBack]

The problem was I believe atari got like 70 Million from Sega out of the deal so Sam took 1/2 of it just to keep Atari afloat another month then took the rest and ran.

 

Your timing is a bit off and your memory is a bit more colorful than what happened.

 

The settlement happened in late September 1994. Atari exited the business in February 1996 ... about a year and a half later. Sam didn't blow half the money to "keep Atari afloat for a month" and he didn't steal company money as you imply either. And while Atari wasn't on the best footing financially, they also weren't at bankruptcy's door when they got the Sega settlement either. There were never any "doubts about the company's ability to continue" in their stock reports, which was very different from Atari right now.

 

I'm not a Sam Tramiel fan, but the recollections of his "exploits" get more colorful as the years go on.

 

Here was the press release put out September 28th, 1994:

 

" TOKYO -DJ- Sega Enterprises Ltd. and Atari Corp. (ATC) settled their disputes and formed an affiliation that includes several agreements designed to serve as the basis of future working arrangements between

the companies.

 

In a press release, the companies said Sega will buy about 4.7 million Atari common shares for $40 million and will receive worldwide, non-exclusive rights with certain exceptions to Atari's library of patents, a number of which extend beyond the turn of the century.

 

The companies said the agreement covers Sega, its units, licensees and customers for more than 70 U.S. patents and applications, for a fully prepaid royalty to Atari covering the remaining 7 years of certain patents, amortized at about $7 million per year. Atari will therefore receive a total of $50 million, less contingent attorney fees and costs, the companies said.

 

Sega and Atari said they will enter into software license agreements for a specified number of games that would be made available on each company's current and future platforms. The companies also said Atari will dismiss its legal proceedings against Sega, and each company will release all claims against the other. As reported last year, Atari filed a patent infringement suit against Sega.

 

The companies said the agreements are subject to approval by the U.S. Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission under Hart-Scott-Rodino and to certain other conditions. "

 

Atari's big gotchya, if I recall correctly, was the 9-pin joystick connection found in the 2600 and 7800. Sega had been infringing upon it with literally tens of millions of Genesis and Sega Master Systems sold. Likely, they settled quickly for that alone.

[Trip_Cannon]

If Sega were to choose 5 games from the Jaguar library made exclusively by Atari, what would they be?

[Atarifever]

That isn't that bad of an interview. He said what anyone would say in that type of situation. He was basically saying "yeah we made some mistakes, please understand we're trying to fix them now." He certainly doesn't sound any more stupid than anyone else in charge of a product that isn't doing too good.

[Agent X]

Kevincal, thanks for posting the interview. It's been several years since I read it, and I enjoyed reading it today.

 

That isn't that bad of an interview. He said what anyone would say in that type of situation. He was basically saying "yeah we made some mistakes, please understand we're trying to fix them now." He certainly doesn't sound any more stupid than anyone else in charge of a product that isn't doing too good.

 

That's what I thought, too.

 

I still see this interview mentioned occasionally on Internet forums, usually by someone who wasn't a fan of the Jaguar. It's usually distilled down to the handful of questions about the hardware abilities of Saturn and PlayStation relative to the Jaguar, and Sam Tramiel's responses (about Saturn being roughly equal or less powerful, and PlayStation being only slightly more powerful) are usually ridiculed. While I tend to agree that some of those remarks were flaky and dubious, there are a lot of other points he made elsewhere in the interview that were quite accurate, even prophetic in some ways.

 

In retrospect, he might've seemed too optimistic about the future of the Jaguar and its longevity as a platform (as Atari discontinued it about a year after this interview took place), but he seemed honestly determined to make a success out of it at that time. I agree with DracIsBack that some of this stuff just gets exaggerated into urban legend by people who hate the Jaguar or feel they need to mock it more than a decade after the fact of the matter. While things ultimately didn't work out the way he had hoped they would, I think his intentions were good.

[kevincal]

Thanks Agent. I'm glad I took the time to scan it for everyone. A lot of people are enjoying it, which is cool. I have a TON of good Jag stuff from back in the day. I'll be scanning more cool Jag stuff pretty soon.

[Lastblade]

Thanks for the scans, it brought back memories as I remember reading it way back when. It is propaganda like this that made me have hope for the Jaguar Seriously, I wanted to play MK3 on the Jaguar very badly....

[kevincal]

For sure. MK3 for the Jag IS out there...maybe not complete, but anything would be better than nothing. Hope it turns up soon.

[carmel_andrews]

The ST/Next Generation Interview...Seems very similar to a similar article i read in the UK version of next generation (called 'Edge'), I believe the edition that featured the article had an Atari logo on the front cover (red on white)

 

I think i still have that edition of the magazine, i just don't have any scanning h/w

[bigdcaldavis2k]

I went to Jaguar Interactive ll for the first time in a long time and they were talking about this interview. So, I thought I'd use my scanner since it's my first scanner and I'm having fun with it.

 

Well, he looks like Jack...right down to the receding hairline.

[bigdcaldavis2k]

Atari's big gotchya, if I recall correctly, was the 9-pin joystick connection found in the 2600 and 7800. Sega had been infringing upon it with literally tens of millions of Genesis and Sega Master Systems sold. Likely, they settled quickly for that alone.

 

Agreed...and you could say that the proof is in the fact that you can use a Sega Genesis joypad as a controller on the Atari 2600 (the d-pad as the joystick, and the B button as the fire button).

[bigdcaldavis2k]

Sam looks like a slightly less gay Richard Simmons.

 

Nah...Sam looks like a younger version of Jack.

[bigdcaldavis2k]

Excelent read thank you!! That article left me with one big lingering question though, where the hell is Jag MK3? Is there a proto, any info. ect? I would love to see even a proof of concept version.

 

 

T2KFreeker played MK3 for the Jag at a CES or somethin' or other.

 

Maybe he was playing Thea Realm Fighters instead.

[CHIP72]

FWIW, that was the first copy of Next Generation I ever bought (primarily because of the Jaguar coverage)...and unlike many of you, I still have that magazine (and for that matter every edition of Next Generation magazine after that until it was discontinued after its January 2002 edition).

 

Something related that was also in Next Generation (I believe in Vol. 1, No. 6) is Sony's Steve Race was asked by the magazine about price-dumping and could not provide an answer to the question. If I remember correctly, Sony changed one relatively minor part in the Playstation package from the Japanese version to the American version to get around the price-dumping issue.

Edited November 24, 2006 by CHIP72

[kevincal]

Yeah, I'm the one that scanned this interview. I subscribed to Game Players back in the mid 90's and they had an insert in an issue advertising a new magazine called "Next Generation" and if you sent in a card attached, you got the first issue for free...And come to think of it, it might have been the first 6 issues but I can't remember. I have all of the early NG's though, very interesting reading.

[Pete5125]

If I remeber correctly the lawsuit was over more than the 9 pin joystick port it had more to do w/ the fact that the only part of Atari that always had good fnding was their legal dept. because "they earned their keep" The Legal dept had actualy went through all the trouble as to paten everything that Atari had ever did and since they were the father of video games. Atari actualy owened the patens to such things as moving sprites on screen and backgrounds. Which everyone else in the game industry had always paid Atari for the royalties. Sega decided this was rediculios, Atari took them to court Sega decided to settle to save face then never released any games on the platform.

 

This was a dumb move on Atari's end because they took themoney but never ported the games, they should of ported 32X versions of Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, Star Wars Arcade, Space Harrior, and After Burner....they had the Motorollia chip and it was the reason they were gettting quick ports of crap games (Double Dragon 5, Dragon, etc) they should of took advantage of the situation instead that let Sega waite it out till the system was dead.

[kevincal]

Very true...what was Atari thinking...

[+LS650]

This was a dumb move on Atari's end because they took themoney but never ported the games, they should of ported 32X versions of Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, Star Wars Arcade, Space Harrior, and After Burner....

It'd be interested to know why Atari didn't port over some Sega licences. My guess is that the licences were only for the name/look of the games, and no source code would have been included. Atari would likely have had to code everything from scratch, and they already had Blue Lightning and others in the development pipeline. If Atari had been able to keep its head above water for another year, maybe we would have had some Sega ports.

 

If you look around on the internet for "SoulStar" (try searching in the CyberRoach site), you can find videos of both the Jag CD and the Sega CD versions. Although the games look about the same, there are enough differences that it's obvious one is not a straight-over port of the other.

Edited December 3, 2006 by ls650

[Flojomojo]

I remember that article! I also tossed my Next Gen collection. I'm subscribing to EDGE now, and they have a collection called FILE that has their best articles from 1995-6 collected in one (expensive) volume. I suspect this is in there too.

 

I recall the cover being very dramatic, with Jaguar imagery like red claw marks against a stark black background.

 

Tramiel does some good spinning here, making the best of a bad situation, not unlike the magazine's other reviews with people like Trip Hawkins (EA and 3DO). It was pretty clear that the Jag wasn't going to compete with Saturn and Playstation, but it was still fun to watch the fireworks. One-man shows like Defender 2000 and Fight For Life simply couldn't compete with modern titles with high production values like Virtua Fighter and Ridge Racer.

[V.R]

I like the way he slams the Saturn, implying that the Jag was much better

[Clint Thompson]

So even if they sold 300,000 units... they still were... in the red.

That $500 million dollar contract with IBM must have been painful.

I wonder what the original target number of consoles to be sold was.

[+LS650]

If you take a look at the Atari Explorer site, there are some reports submitted to the Federal Trade Commission (IIRC) that said by December 1995, Atari had sold 135,000 Jaguars, and had another 90,000 in inventory. Considering that production stopped in early 1996, that means that perhaps less than 250,000 Jaguars were ever made.

[Pete5125]

Maybe the Jag was better w/ the Jag CD add on then the Saturn. If I remeber correctly Sega had to Remake VF and call it VF DELUXE because the 32X version was actualy better than it. FFL actualy was better than VF1 before the remix on Saturn and it was a cart game vs. a CD game if Jag would of just made a CD version of it w/ shorter rounds and a couple tweaks I'm sure their remix could of beat VF Remix.

 

Of course VF2, VF3, and Virtue Cop games blow this theory out of the water.

 

If Atari only owned the Names/ story lines etc. ...then they were even stupider than I thought, just change the name of Blue Lightnaing to After Burner Deluxe, add a car or two to Checkerd Flag and rename it Virtue Racing Deluxe, I'm sure Atari had a few other bad games laying around that they could stick a Sega liscence on w/ the threat of releasing then tell Sega either they do a 32X port or Atari will release their versions of these games.

[kevincal]

Ya know, I have Virtua Fighter on the Saturn and I've played it through an S-Video cable, and in my opinion, it looks and plays great. So I don't understand all the hate that game gets... I haven't played Fight For Life though...

[Flojomojo]

Ya know, I have Virtua Fighter on the Saturn and I've played it through an S-Video cable, and in my opinion, it looks and plays great. So I don't understand all the hate that game gets... I haven't played Fight For Life though...

If Virtua Fighter is Lance Armstrong, Fight for Life is his Special Olympics counterpart. The two games don't have much in common apart from the superficial graphical similarities and the fact that a bit player from VF wrote the FFL. VF is still playable, but FFL was never much fun to play.

 

I'm sure there's some FFL diehard fan on this board, so let me add that this is just my opinion. Try both and see for yourself.