Jump to content
IGNORED

Dual Shock 3 to be backward compatible with PSX/PS2?


shadow460

Recommended Posts

Obviously the tilt function won't be active on a PS2, and the pressure sensitive functions won't work on a PSX, either, but will a Dual Shock 3 be compatible with the two older consoles?

Eventually I will need replacement controllers, and I don't think it's fair to be forced to upgrade to a new system just to get them, let alone to play the latest games. Long live the Video Computer System!

 

Seriously, I want to buy a second controller for my PS2, and the Dual Shock 2's price has held steady since the Big Bang. With the PS3 coming out soon, they should release spare controllers, and that's what I'll buy if it will work with my console.

 

So........ will they work?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously the tilt function won't be active on a PS2, and the pressure sensitive functions won't work on a PSX, either, but will a Dual Shock 3 be compatible with the two older consoles?

Eventually I will need replacement controllers, and I don't think it's fair to be forced to upgrade to a new system just to get them, let alone to play the latest games. Long live the Video Computer System!

 

Seriously, I want to buy a second controller for my PS2, and the Dual Shock 2's price has held steady since the Big Bang. With the PS3 coming out soon, they should release spare controllers, and that's what I'll buy if it will work with my console.

 

So........ will they work?

Unless a receiving unit is made for the controller, there won't be any compatibility with the PS2. Current wireless controllers for the PS2 require a receiver plugged into the controller port. A PS3 controller would also need one. And I don't think Sony will do it. Maybe a third party company would, But I really doubt it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume, then, that $ony isn't planning to make wired controllers. That sucks, 'cause I hate having to mess with batteries and recievers just to make sure my games are gonna work.

I sit right in front of the screen to play.

I'm guessing also that there won't be any of the signature controller ports on the PS3.

 

What I really wanna get is a Dual Analog, but that seems like it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume, then, that $ony isn't planning to make wired controllers.

If they are, it'll be on USB.

 

I'm guessing also that there won't be any of the signature controller ports on the PS3.

Nor memcard slots.

They apparently finally realized that was a problem, since they were recently talking about there being a USB PS1/2 memory card reader planned as an accessory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume, then, that $ony isn't planning to make wired controllers.

If they are, it'll be on USB.

 

The wireless controllers have a tiny USB port, that is how you charge them (whilst plugged into the PS3, it has 4 ports). No bulky external battery pack or crap like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood what dual shock two meant, as opposed to dual shock one.

The original DualShock buttons are digital. They're either down or they aren't.

 

The DS2 has pressure-sensitive buttons for the shoulder keys and face "diamond". Each of them reports an analog level from 0 to 255, depending on how hard you mash them down.

Most games ignore this, as it's a stupid feature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood what dual shock two meant, as opposed to dual shock one.

The original DualShock buttons are digital. They're either down or they aren't.

 

The DS2 has pressure-sensitive buttons for the shoulder keys and face "diamond". Each of them reports an analog level from 0 to 255, depending on how hard you mash them down.

Most games ignore this, as it's a stupid feature.

 

Over half of my PS2 games use the pressure sensitivity, actually.

They're racing games. ;)

 

Has $ony decided on battery chemistry yet? I'd hope they go with NiMH cells so that your controller doesn't wind up dying completely after a couple of years.

Edited by shadow460
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood what dual shock two meant, as opposed to dual shock one.

The original DualShock buttons are digital. They're either down or they aren't.

 

The DS2 has pressure-sensitive buttons for the shoulder keys and face "diamond". Each of them reports an analog level from 0 to 255, depending on how hard you mash them down.

Most games ignore this, as it's a stupid feature.

 

Over half of my PS2 games use the pressure sensitivity, actually.

They're racing games. ;)

 

Has $ony decided on battery chemistry yet? I'd hope they go with NiMH cells so that your controller doesn't wind up dying completely after a couple of years.

Probably lithium-ion.

I don't think anyone ISN'T using them, just because you can reach a given run time with a smaller and lighter battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only games I know of that ARE analog with the buttons are raceing games on the PS2.

 

Analog buttons are just a stupid Idea, it's not as easy to be variable with how hard you push a button as opposed to a lever. That's why X-Box and Game Cube went with triggers rather than analog buttons.

 

Oh, and while PS2 Controllers WILL work with the PSX, they act like dirty controllers (you don't get the performance you'd get out of an actual PSX controller) Probably due to their analog nature, and the PSX not being designed to read it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The buttons are useless, even in racing games. All they seem to accomplish for me is making me push the X button hard to be sure I get full throttle, and causing developers to think they can make games feature wheelspin and brake lock with buttons that move maybe 1/8" in total, making games unecessarily frusturating without a wheel and pedals.

Edited by Atariboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only games I know of that ARE analog with the buttons are raceing games on the PS2.

 

Analog buttons are just a stupid Idea, it's not as easy to be variable with how hard you push a button as opposed to a lever. That's why X-Box and Game Cube went with triggers rather than analog buttons.

And Dreamcast. Can't forget the Dreamcast. :)

 

Oh, and while PS2 Controllers WILL work with the PSX, they act like dirty controllers (you don't get the performance you'd get out of an actual PSX controller) Probably due to their analog nature, and the PSX not being designed to read it.

It drops to DualShock 1 mode for PS1 usage. If it was still reporting the full byte for each button, it just wouldn't work.

The problem is that PS2 pads aren't well-designed. At least not later revisions(I gather early ones are a lot better about it). So they ARE dirty and unresponsive, and it affects digital-button PS2 games as well. I've had to open mine up and scrub the contacts a few times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only games I know of that ARE analog with the buttons are raceing games on the PS2.

 

Analog buttons are just a stupid Idea, it's not as easy to be variable with how hard you push a button as opposed to a lever. That's why X-Box and Game Cube went with triggers rather than analog buttons.

And Dreamcast. Can't forget the Dreamcast. :)

 

Oh, and while PS2 Controllers WILL work with the PSX, they act like dirty controllers (you don't get the performance you'd get out of an actual PSX controller) Probably due to their analog nature, and the PSX not being designed to read it.

It drops to DualShock 1 mode for PS1 usage. If it was still reporting the full byte for each button, it just wouldn't work.

The problem is that PS2 pads aren't well-designed. At least not later revisions(I gather early ones are a lot better about it). So they ARE dirty and unresponsive, and it affects digital-button PS2 games as well. I've had to open mine up and scrub the contacts a few times.

 

Oh yeah, and Dreamcast :P Who was the first of the Next Gen's to do it. Almost the only thing that saved the rather primative (buy then current standards) controller. Guess they thought that would make up for not haveing 5 more buttons and another stick.

 

What I'm saying though, is I"ve used new DS2 controllers, and they still act up. I liked the Mad Catz Dual Force 2 controller, which when used with games that didn't use the sticks, allowed you to use them in place of the Digital Pad. But it still has that less responsive dirty feeling when useing the buttons, so I just use the right stick instead. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, and Dreamcast :P Who was the first of the Next Gen's to do it. Almost the only thing that saved the rather primative (buy then current standards) controller. Guess they thought that would make up for not haveing 5 more buttons and another stick.

Don't you mean 2 more buttons? L2 and R2.

 

Or are we counting select and the click-the-stick switches now? Both are totally useless and not worth counting.

The right analog stick is also hard to justify. I've seen very few games that used it effectively.

 

 

Seriously, the thing I've always wondered about the Dreamcast pad is... it's basically a Saturn analog pad minus C and Z and with a crappier d-pad. They HAD a controller that was damn near perfect, and then they messed with it.

 

What I'm saying though, is I"ve used new DS2 controllers, and they still act up. I liked the Mad Catz Dual Force 2 controller, which when used with games that didn't use the sticks, allowed you to use them in place of the Digital Pad. But it still has that less responsive dirty feeling when useing the buttons, so I just use the right stick instead. :P

Mmm... I haven't had that issue, but I try not to use my DS2 much anyways. I may have to experiment.

 

 

I'm not a big fan of the DualShock design to start with, and it's self-destructive tendancies make me less inclined to put un-needed wear on it.

Can't even do a mod to improve it without losing the analog buttons, which is why I use it in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right analog stick is to be used for steering in racing games. All you do is think of the Dual Shock 2 as a two stick RC controller, and presto, you have ause for the right stick and don't have to worry about the pressure sensitive junk.

 

And Saturn would be the first system with analog triggers, wouldn't it? Can't they just balance the outputs from the two sensors to make each trigger analog?

 

As for the DS2 and durability, I've never had durability issues with a first party controller, with the exception of the 5200 and the N64. The N64 pads I bought new in 1997 still work perfectly, but I've seen some really trashy ones for sale and I've broken a couple myself.

 

Come to think of it, my DS2 is getting a little flaky--it acts like the wire is worn out where it goes into the case. Other than that, it's fine.

I hurled a Dual Analog into the wall at warp 7 several times. It still worked like new after that, but the plastic cover broke off or the chocke coil near the plug. Maybe it was warp 9, I don't remember, but I threw it pretty hard.

 

The NiGHTS pad I just opened looks to be very well constructed inside. I bet the reason Sega changed it was to add VMU support. The DC could have used built in memory slots, reserving the clip and plug system on the NiGHTS pad for its intended Jump Pack. The VMU screen is about as worthless as QuikCrete in an inflatable life raft.

Edited by shadow460
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, and Dreamcast :P Who was the first of the Next Gen's to do it. Almost the only thing that saved the rather primative (buy then current standards) controller. Guess they thought that would make up for not haveing 5 more buttons and another stick.

Don't you mean 2 more buttons? L2 and R2.

 

Or are we counting select and the click-the-stick switches now? Both are totally useless and not worth counting.

The right analog stick is also hard to justify. I've seen very few games that used it effectively.

 

 

 

 

Yes, in this case I'm counting the Missing option button, which while not necessairly 100% needed, is used on the other systems, and the click, while rather inconvienant, is used in damn near every game I have. I hate how GC put the click in the triggers, that's even more useless there, not that I've found many, or any games that use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NiGHTS pad I just opened looks to be very well constructed inside. I bet the reason Sega changed it was to add VMU support. The DC could have used built in memory slots, reserving the clip and plug system on the NiGHTS pad for its intended Jump Pack. The VMU screen is about as worthless as QuikCrete in an inflatable life raft.

 

Not really, if you like football. One of the very best features of the DC VMU was to be able to pick plays without the other person seeing what you picked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see your point, keilbaca. Did you play Pokemon Stadium 2? Even without a screen, you could pick moves without your opponent knowing what you were going to do. It was kinda like putting moves into Mortal Kombat I.

Does putting football plays in justify the change in controllers? If it doesn't, a screen attatchment could be made for the NiGHTS pad.

 

I feel like each pad has its strengths and weaknesses. The analog stick and triggers are better on the DC pad, everything else is better on the NiGHTS pad. That analog stick is good at pinpointing direction for games like NiGHTS and Gyruss. It sucks when it's used for traditional analog stick purposes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right analog stick for steering? Don't think thats a option in most games, did you mean use it for gas and braking?

 

Right analog sticks are useful for first person shooters and classic gaming collections for things such as Robotron, I miss it everytime I go back and play my N64 or Dreamcast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Saturn would be the first system with analog triggers, wouldn't it? Can't they just balance the outputs from the two sensors to make each trigger analog?

Saturn Nights pad had analog triggers.

 

Not sure what the part about balancing sensors is...

 

 

As for the DS2 and durability, I've never had durability issues with a first party controller, with the exception of the 5200 and the N64. The N64 pads I bought new in 1997 still work perfectly, but I've seen some really trashy ones for sale and I've broken a couple myself.

 

Come to think of it, my DS2 is getting a little flaky--it acts like the wire is worn out where it goes into the case. Other than that, it's fine.

Don't guess you know what revision it is?

 

Mine's a green one. I gather they made a revision when they added color cases. Anyways, after a lot of use, the buttons cease registering when they "click" and you have to lean into them a bit to make them register as down. Plays hell with my gameplay, since I'm very light on the buttons.

 

 

Oh yeah, and Dreamcast :P Who was the first of the Next Gen's to do it. Almost the only thing that saved the rather primative (buy then current standards) controller. Guess they thought that would make up for not haveing 5 more buttons and another stick.

Don't you mean 2 more buttons? L2 and R2.

 

Or are we counting select and the click-the-stick switches now? Both are totally useless and not worth counting.

The right analog stick is also hard to justify. I've seen very few games that used it effectively.

 

 

 

 

Yes, in this case I'm counting the Missing option button, which while not necessairly 100% needed, is used on the other systems, and the click, while rather inconvienant, is used in damn near every game I have. I hate how GC put the click in the triggers, that's even more useless there, not that I've found many, or any games that use it.

I'm not sure if I have less games using select or stick-click.

 

Robot Alchemic Drive and Gunvalkyrie are the only stick-click games I can think of.

 

 

I agree that adding a switch under the analog triggers was a bad idea.

It gives them an interesting feel, but there's no good gameplay justification for it. Easier to just make the game treat level 255 diffrently. Add a notch/tab that the shoulder key slides over and you even get the click with no added parts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NiGHTS pad has two sensors on each of the triggers. They are a lot like phototransistors, only they're not. I assume they sense when the trigger is pulled. It moves a hunk of plastic in from in front of one sensor and close to the other one when you pull the trigger. they way they are positioned, it looks like they have a digital output.

 

My Dual Shock 2 is black. I got it with my PS2 right around the time Gran Turismo 3 was released. In fact, the blue covered version of GT3 had just hit the shelf, and the PS3 with the red pack in GT3 was getting hard to find.

The model number is SCPH 10010, and there's a letter A embossed on the back of it near the model number.

 

Spy Hunter uses the click stick functions, so does Gran Turismo 4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NiGHTS pad has two sensors on each of the triggers. They are a lot like phototransistors, only they're not. I assume they sense when the trigger is pulled. It moves a hunk of plastic in from in front of one sensor and close to the other one when you pull the trigger. they way they are positioned, it looks like they have a digital output.

Ah. I've never been inside one.

If the triggers have a chopper strip or chopper wheel, they're using mouse-style analog, just like the N64. If it's just a solid object doing the obscuring, then you have 3 levels.

 

My Dual Shock 2 is black. I got it with my PS2 right around the time Gran Turismo 3 was released. In fact, the blue covered version of GT3 had just hit the shelf, and the PS3 with the red pack in GT3 was getting hard to find.

The model number is SCPH 10010, and there's a letter A embossed on the back of it near the model number.

Mine's got an A also. I think that's supposed to indicate the revision.

Maybe I just got a bum pad.

 

Spy Hunter uses the click stick functions, so does Gran Turismo 4.

I've got Spyhunter on XBox. I forgot about that one.

I have THREE games that use the clickstick!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I forgot to mention that most my titles are FPS, and all those will pretty much use the clicks. Most driving games will honk a horn if you click the left stick. Useless, but kinda interesteing that it's there.

 

The right analog stick for steering? Don't think thats a option in most games, did you mean use it for gas and braking?

 

Right analog sticks are useful for first person shooters and classic gaming collections for things such as Robotron, I miss it everytime I go back and play my N64 or Dreamcast.

 

Don't know if that was directed at me, but what I meant when I said I just use the right stick, I meant in place of the Buttons, cause the stick gave me better response to gas and breaks and such. And it's awesome on Fighting games, cause you can pull some crazy shit off.

 

I don't know of any other controllers that let you use the right stick in place of the buttons when not supported by Analog functions, just my Mad Cats Dual Force 2 (though I'd assume the Dual Force would also do this)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I forgot to mention that most my titles are FPS, and all those will pretty much use the clicks. Most driving games will honk a horn if you click the left stick. Useless, but kinda interesteing that it's there.

 

The right analog stick for steering? Don't think thats a option in most games, did you mean use it for gas and braking?

 

Right analog sticks are useful for first person shooters and classic gaming collections for things such as Robotron, I miss it everytime I go back and play my N64 or Dreamcast.

 

Don't know if that was directed at me, but what I meant when I said I just use the right stick, I meant in place of the Buttons, cause the stick gave me better response to gas and breaks and such. And it's awesome on Fighting games, cause you can pull some crazy shit off.

 

I don't know of any other controllers that let you use the right stick in place of the buttons when not supported by Analog functions, just my Mad Cats Dual Force 2 (though I'd assume the Dual Force would also do this)

My Blaze WhateverTheyCalledIt does that. 'S the one with the hat switch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...