Decent Wii footage from Leipzig

[CPUWIZ]

http://media.games.ign.com/articles/693/69...id_1657122.html

[sega saturn x]

Nintendo better keep the price to 200$ or under because anything over that is hard to swallow for the hardware I'm seeing here.

[jbanes]

If Mario Strikers proves anything, it's that Nintendo wasn't joking about the graphics being competitive. Just about every special effect they can pack in there is included in that demo! It also looks like Ubisoft has an actual Wii build of Red Steel out. It looks a LOT better than what was shown at the E3. Especially the cool lighting effects through the paper screens.

 

Speaking of Red Steel, doesn't it seem a lot like Time Crisis, but with freeform movement?

 

I can't wait!

[+remowilliams]

Well, that did little to raise my enthusiasm for Red Steel. Ugh.

 

Strikers looked pretty decent, though I'm not exactly inspired by what I'm seeing of the 'revolutionary' control method here on any of the games shown...

Edited September 4, 2006 by remowilliams

[Atariboy]

Red Steel doesn't look appealing at all. I wish they'd release more Virtual Console information, since it continues to look like the Wii lineup won't appeal to me much, at least initially.

[Tempest]

Am I the only one who thinks the Wii is being over hyped? I'm not in love with that controller at all, I really don't want to play games with a laser pointer...

 

Is there a normal controller being developed for the Wii or is everything going to use that laser pointer thing? God, that will get annoying really fast...

 

Tempest

[AtariJr]

I saw this before. I was really suprised on how nice strikers is looking. And i actually like the new look of red steel, that will probably be the fps i get this holiday out of the 3 or 4 that are being made. I was kinda wishing for some rayman footage but oh well. I for one am happy about the controller... woo hoo to being able to aim.

[sega saturn x]

Am I the only one who thinks the Wii is being over hyped?

To an extent I agree, I like the controller and all but I don't think we should 86 the classic play style either.

[+remowilliams]

Am I the only one who thinks the Wii is being over hyped?

Nope. But around here you might find that hard to believe.

 

To an extent I agree, I like the controller and all but I don't think we should 86 the classic play style either.

One of my fears would be developers feeling pressure to use the wiimote (after all it is arguably the biggest defining feature of the console) when it would otherwise not make sense, and then have games suffer horribly as a result.

 

As far as Red Steel it looks like a game that would have the potential for some nice FPS console controls, and running on a system that lacks the power to do the rest justice.

[n8littlefield]

Well, considering one of Nintendo's biggest titles next year will be Smash Bros and it uses the "classic controller" or Gamecube controllers I don't think there is really any pressure forcing developers to use the wand. Red Steel is going to end up a missed opportunity not because of the hardware, but simply it's just not going to be that good of a game according to most prerelease stuff. The true FPS test will be the port of Farcry which is looking pretty good so far (only a few screens released).

[sega saturn x]

Seeing that I can't help but feel the wii really is underpowered, especially compared to newer 360 titles. I don't think to many of the 360 games look fun but they look good.

[jbanes]

I don't think to many of the 360 games look fun but they look good.

Because "looking good" is always more important to a game than being "fun".

 

I honestly don't understand this amazing amount of negativity toward the Wii.

[Gregory DG]

Graphicswise... I haven't been impressed with anything for the past few years. Maybe seeing the first screenshots of Doom 3... Graphically those games in the video were not very impressive. But gameplaywise... Who knows? They're probably a lot of fun.

 

Anyway... I think the negativity comes from:

 

1. The Wii is basically the same hardware (shovelware?) as the GC.

2. The controller, while unique, isn't something that couldn't be done on another system. Shoot, Nintendo could make the same motion sensing controller for the SNES. MS or Sony could make a controller that does the exact same thing.

3. The name Wii still stinks.

[jbanes]

Graphicswise... I haven't been impressed with anything for the past few years.

Personally, I agree with you. But everyone seems to think that the 360 is somehow a major shift in graphical capability. I think it looks like the same stuff I've been playing on a computer for the past three years.

 

Graphically those games in the video were not very impressive. But gameplaywise... Who knows? They're probably a lot of fun.

I dunno. Both Strikers and Red Steel showed off some excellent graphical effects. For example, Strikers showed the characters using an impressive "hologram" lighting model, then showed very detailed action up close in the in-game cut scenes. Actual gameplay looked pretty much like it always does, but IMHO, that's true for all the consoles. (I hope people don't really believe Sony is going to give graphics on par with their pre-rendered demos?)

 

Red Steel's lighting effects were similarly impressive, showing that the Wii is quite capable of Radiosity effects. Meaning that it can go toe-to-toe with the 360's graphics should it become necessary. Realistically, the number of exclusive titles in this generation will probably mean that a direct comparison will be difficult. Especially since the Wii will focus on good looking but cartoony graphics, while the 360 will try to make some guy's head explode with over-exaggerated "realism".

 

To address your other points (even though I realize you may or may not personally agree with them):

 

I think the negativity comes from:

 

1. The Wii is basically the same hardware (shovelware?) as the GC.

I think Nintendo is actually doing the right thing here. It's not "just the same hardware". It's an upgrade on par with the three year PC upgrades. When you get a new PC, you usually expect a marked increase in CPU power and Graphics capabilities, right? Well, the same is true for the Wii. It's going from Quake III-type power to Doom III-type power. A perfectly reasonable transition. Especially since it means that non-GameCube owners will be able to catch up on titles they missed.

 

 

2. The controller, while unique, isn't something that couldn't be done on another system. Shoot, Nintendo could make the same motion sensing controller for the SNES. MS or Sony could make a controller that does the exact same thing.

Yes, but it hasn't been done on any other system. So regardless of whether it could be done on other systems or not, only the Wii is in a position to promote games for the controller.

 

3. The name Wii still stinks.

Are you kidding me? "Wii" is the greatest viral marketing campaign ever to hit the video game industry! Thanks to all the childish jokes about its name, even my dog knows about Nintendo and their new console's control scheme. Yet Nintendo themselves slap a coat of professionalism on top of the name that eventually combats the juvenilism as the jokes wear thin.

 

Stupid or not, the name was a brilliant move on Nintendo's part. They've got so much hype built up at this point, that if they don't deliver, it could destroy Nintendo. No pressure.

[+remowilliams]

Meaning that it can go toe-to-toe with the 360's graphics should it become necessary.

No offense, but what are you smoking?

[jbanes]

No offense, but what are you smoking?

The good stuff maaaaan (*puff*), the good stuff!

 

Seriously, graphical quality is not as hard to obtain as it may seem, and is largely a function of the GPU's capabilities rather than raw horsepower. Raw horsey-power becomes more valuable as the scene grows in complexity. But since the Wii doesn't have to render jack in HD...

[sega saturn x]

I don't think to many of the 360 games look fun but they look good.

Because "looking good" is always more important to a game than being "fun".

 

I honestly don't understand this amazing amount of negativity toward the Wii.

I never said anything like fun isn't important so don't put words in my mouth.

 

No offense, but what are you smoking?

The good stuff maaaaan (*puff*), the good stuff!

 

Seriously, graphical quality is not as hard to obtain as it may seem, and is largely a function of the GPU's capabilities rather than raw horsepower. Raw horsey-power becomes more valuable as the scene grows in complexity. But since the Wii doesn't have to render jack in HD...

The wii can't even sort of compare to the 360 and ps3 in terms of graphics so lets not pretend here guys. If nintendos own prodcuts look like game cube games that's a pretty good sign that we wont be in for any visual feasts on the wii. The proof is in the games, compare battalion wars 2 to say cameo. It gets worse when you look at the current crop of 360 titles.

[jbanes]

I don't think to many of the 360 games look fun but they look good.

Because "looking good" is always more important to a game than being "fun".

I never said anything like fun isn't important so don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not putting works in your mouth. You suggested that graphical power was important to the success of the Wii in comparison to the 360. It was in your words, and I quoted your words. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure how one is supposed to take the evaluation that "the Wii is underpowered [in comparison to] the 360".

 

The wii can't even sort of compare to the 360 and ps3 in terms of graphics so lets not pretend here guys. If nintendos own prodcuts look like game cube games that's a pretty good sign that we wont be in for any visual feasts on the wii.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with 90% of the development to date happening on GameCube hardware, and that the updated effects that have started appearing in Strikers and Red Steel are just flukes.

 

The 360 and the PS3 are pumping HD screens. That's what they're looking to waste their horsepower on. These effects were played up from the beginning because they're competing on graphical power. Nintendo has taken a different tack, and has been focusing on the controller. So much so, that the development has been happening on GameCube hardware. Ergo, we're not seeing the effects upfront like we did with the 360. (Not that I really care. Eye candy can only make a game better, not make a bad game good.)

Edited September 5, 2006 by jbanes

[+remowilliams]

Seriously, graphical quality is not as hard to obtain as it may seem, and is largely a function of the GPU's capabilities rather than raw horsepower. Raw horsey-power becomes more valuable as the scene grows in complexity. But since the Wii doesn't have to render jack in HD...

 

So the Wii will excel at rendering low resolution, low complexity graphics?

 

I'm calling Chewbacca Defense

 

Ah well, I hope it turns out better than I'm seeing so far for the Wii. I will after all have one.

Edited September 5, 2006 by remowilliams

[jbanes]

So the Wii will excel at rendering low resolution, low complexity graphics?

Low resolution reduces the complexity for modern graphical effects. Soooo... the scene can be of similar complexity, but there will be less pixels pumped. Which means that the 95% of consumers who don't have HD (raises hand) won't see a difference.

[AtariJr]

If you think that Strikers and Red Steel for instance could be done on Gamecube hardware then your very mistaken. While the Wii is not as powerfull as the 2 competitors, you have to remember that it isnt a gamecube with a new controller , it is much more powerfull than that. Second, this isnt the primary or even secondary goal for that matter for nintendo, so judging the graphical capabilities only is really the wrong way to go on judging the games for this sytem. Also, lets remember how bad other system's graphics looked at launch and where they have ended up in the later years of their live spans (COUGH ps2). Just because the games look like this now does not necessarily mean this is what we get forever. I think the crowd in Strikers or the lighting in Red Steel is definately a huge jump from what we have seen in gamecube games and it will only get better in the future.

 

As far as the control I think that developers will have an alot of options, a blank slate. Look at the DS. The DS has quite a few differnt ways to imput control, from touch screen, to buttons, to microphone... yet Nintendo made it clear that you could do what you want with them. Just because you dont use a microphone or touch screen doesnt make your game automatically a bad production. And i think that you will see that with Wii as well. There will be plenty of games that will use every feature that the controller has to offer, while others will either not use it to its full potetial, or just stay with gamecube control. Either way the game can be a success and be fun for the consumer to play which I believe is Nintendo's main goal here.

 

Personally, the graphics are good enough for me as I believe that graphics are starting to level out and not be as big of a jump as they used to be in previous generations. The control is exciting if not a bit intimidating. But mostly my antisipation comes from the games. Having so many games at launch was a boost for them in me wanting the console. This weekend I had the opportunity to get a 360 for 300 dollars (the premium version, not core). I passed it up because there are more than 300 dollars worth of games alone that I would want for the Wii in the next couple quarters versus the 360 which doesnt have nearly as many games suited to my tastes despite its full year head start. And when the 360 and ps3 get a few games I really cant live without I'll buy them as well. I'm just going for fun factor. Yes, having the prettiest graphics on the block is a great thing especially with bragging rights, but if the fun I've had with the DS is any indecation of Wii, then I'm on board.

 

On a last note, i think if Nintendo didnt come out with DS first, a lot of gamers including myself might have been scared or turned off by the idea of its control.

[Atari Master]

Just to make things fair here. That footage from E3 was BS anyway. Here's a comparison.

 

 

 

 

This is what we were showed. This is what you're going to get.

 

 

 

Again...

 

What we were showed.

 

 

What you're probably going to end up with.

 

 

While the PS3's graphics are nice. I can tell you as a person who owns a high end PC, they get old kinda quick. I mean sure, nice graphics are cool, but they don't make a game good... Well... Unless you like walking around looking at stuff. : /

Edited September 5, 2006 by Atari Master

[sega saturn x]

I'm not putting works in your mouth. You suggested that graphical power was important to the success of the Wii in comparison to the 360. It was in your words, and I quoted your words. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure how one is supposed to take the evaluation that "the Wii is underpowered [in comparison to] the 360".

And nowhere in my words will you find "fun isn't important" so lay off.

Personally, the graphics are good enough for me as I believe that graphics are starting to level out and not be as big of a jump as they used to be in previous generations

I agree but only so far will I go with you on that. I'm not really sure what you're talking about with the wii being a lot stronger than the cube from every spec I've seen it looks like an overclocked game cube. Does it really bother me? Not that much, I'm still excited to see what's done with the controller. But lets not pretend that this

looks like this

 

 

I would rather pay the extra 100$ or so and gets specs that don't look like last gen. But hey, maybe that's just me.

Edited September 5, 2006 by sega saturn x

[n8littlefield]

I think it's insane to try to compare Batallian Wars 2 to Gears of War. Batallian Wars is not trying to have a realistic look - it's like saying that Looney Tunes sucks because the backgrounds don't look real -it's a cartoon game. With that said, BW2 has a much better drawing distance than the first and the controls are supposedly quite good. Also - wireless LAN mode sounds really fun.

 

As a side note, I don't see why everyone is going nuts over Gears of War - it looks like a graphically upgraded version of Kill.Switch's gameplay mechanics.

[AtariJr]

Put the new pics of Red Steel next to that and that would be a bit more fair of a comparison. Its like saying the saturn sucks because Virtua Fighter Kids doesnt look as real as Tekken 1. Or the PSP's power is lacking because Loco Roco is simple looking.

Edited September 5, 2006 by AtariJr