Question - FB2 Portable?

[atwwong]

Over 500 replies! Atari better release this product...

[mimo]

Christmas is coming, hurry up Atari, don't miss the boat

[Asaki]

I doubt they'll make it in time for Christmas. I personally wouldn't wanna rush them, anyway...they might be tempted to throw another NES-on-a-chip unit at us

 

*knocks on wood*

[mos6507]

I doubt they'll make it in time for Christmas. I personally wouldn't wanna rush them, anyway...they might be tempted to throw another NES-on-a-chip unit at us

 

*knocks on wood*

 

If you've read other threads, Atari is in ever deeper financial problems. It's hard to tell what they are going to be capable or willing to do going forward.

[BigO]

If you've read other threads, Atari is in ever deeper financial problems. It's hard to tell what they are going to be capable or willing to do going forward.

 

I wonder if they're far enough along in development that they could take advance orders to gauge real market interest. At the ~$40 price point, I'd likely take the risk of pre-ordering one.

 

I guess unless retailers actually took the orders, that pre-order scheme could get complicated if they don't have a direct-to-consumer distribution channel already planned.

 

Realistically, how long could a large company be sustained by the sale of retro gaming equipment? How many Atari 2600 products could they release before the market wearies of it? Where can they take the company?

 

I've always enjoyed the brainstorming process. I think it would be interesting to see how many ideas this community could come up with to help kick Atari into sustainability. (Acknowledging the complexities of intellectual property, it's not terribly realistic to expect that this would happen in a public forum).

[raskar42]

i really hope it's out for christmas

 

then i can live my dream of playing custer's revenge on the subway

[mos6507]

I wonder if they're far enough along in development that they could take advance orders to gauge real market interest.

 

I don't think it works that way for a product like this. Unless you ship this on FPGAs ala Gameport, you really have to commit to selling a large volume to justify the overhead of making the ASICs.

[Retro Rogue]

I wonder if they're far enough along in development that they could take advance orders to gauge real market interest.

 

I don't think it works that way for a product like this. Unless you ship this on FPGAs ala Gameport, you really have to commit to selling a large volume to justify the overhead of making the ASICs.

 

 

That's correct. When you're talking about big business (vs. a mom and pop FPGA homebrew situation), the retailers themselves are the ones who actually have to be won over and judge what prospective interest will be, not the consumers. The retailers are who the product owners deal with, and they dictate whether a product will be manufactured and sold or not (or if its concept needs to be revised, etc). So in that case - yes a small number of samples are manufactured (anywhere from just 1 to a few more), but these are for the retail chain execs to evaluate, not the consumer. In the case of a handheld like a portable Flashback its twofold. First Atari has to be convinced to pursue it, and then the retailers have to be convinced its something they want. (That's exactly what shows like CES are for as an example.) If at least a few retailers aren't on board to place significant orders, it doesn't move forward. For example (and Curt can fill this in better), for the FB2 it was QVC and Wallmart initially, with Target and others jumping on after.

 

With regards to testing directly with the consumer, the same confusion arises when players discuss the old coin-op industry for example. Most people think it was player driven, when in fact its distributor/operator driven - that's who the designers/manufacturers design for, and market towards and who actually buy the units from the manufacturer. As any old flyer will show, a game's profitability (replay, money coaxing features) and operation/maintenance are at the forefront. Sure they want the player to want to play the game. However, most of the innovations in game play and design back then (time limits, level metering, extra lives through quarters, etc.) were to keep the player pumping more coins in and make it more profitable for the operator to operate at the location, thereby making the prodcut more attractive to the distributor/operator. That's also what lead to DECO and other early "easy conversion" designs and ultimately JAMMA. So yes, the manufacturer will operate a few test/proto versions at locations during development - but this was to gauge projected profitability at the end location (and make modifications in design to tweak it) as much as it was to see if a handfull of players (in an uncontrolled test environment) liked it. Far different from say a "focus group", where you're specifically sampling a spectrum of consumers to get their opinions.

Edited July 13, 2007 by wgungfu

[BigO]

I wonder if they're far enough along in development that they could take advance orders to gauge real market interest.

 

I don't think it works that way for a product like this. Unless you ship this on FPGAs ala Gameport, you really have to commit to selling a large volume to justify the overhead of making the ASICs.

 

 

That's correct. When you're talking about big business (vs. a mom and pop FPGA homebrew situation), the retailers themselves are the ones who actually have to be won over and judge what prospective interest will be, not the consumers. The retailers are who the product owners deal with, and they dictate whether a product will be manufactured and sold or not (or if its concept needs to be revised, etc). So in that case - yes a small number of samples are manufactured (anywhere from just 1 to a few more), but these are for the retail chain execs to evaluate, not the consumer. In the case of a handheld like a portable Flashback its twofold. First Atari has to be convinced to pursue it, and then the retailers have to be convinced its something they want. (That's exactly what shows like CES are for as an example.) If at least a few retailers aren't on board to place significant orders, it doesn't move forward. For example (and Curt can fill this in better), for the FB2 it was QVC and Wallmart initially, with Target and others jumping on after.

 

With regards to testing directly with the consumer, the same confusion arises when players discuss the old coin-op industry for example. Most people think it was player driven, when in fact its distributor/operator driven - that's who the designers/manufacturers design for, and market towards and who actually buy the units from the manufacturer. As any old flyer will show, a game's profitability (replay, money coaxing features) and operation/maintenance are at the forefront. Sure they want the player to want to play the game. However, most of the innovations in game play and design back then (time limits, level metering, extra lives through quarters, etc.) were to keep the player pumping more coins in and make it more profitable for the operator to operate at the location, thereby making the prodcut more attractive to the distributor/operator. That's also what lead to DECO and other early "easy conversion" designs and ultimately JAMMA. So yes, the manufacturer will operate a few test/proto versions at locations during development - but this was to gauge projected profitability at the end location (and make modifications in design to tweak it) as much as it was to see if a handfull of players (in an uncontrolled test environment) liked it. Far different from say a "focus group", where you're specifically sampling a spectrum of consumers to get their opinions.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I can understand how the economics must work on that scale.

 

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of what an independent inventor must often do to ultimately enter a larger market. The retailers are undoubtedly interested in what the consumer will buy. The little guy often has to prove consumer interest by having x amount of orders in hand to prove the viability of the product. It is my understanding that a large retailer will look at the independent orders/sales of an item to gauge market interest. Therefore, I inferred that they would have some means by which they analyze such sales to extrapolate market interest.

 

I guess that's not really part of the equation when you're an established name trying to sell yet another product.

Edited July 13, 2007 by BigO

[Fort Apocalypse]

Curt,

 

I think you said you might let us know soon what the latest specs were for the FB2 portable. Any chance you might be able to provide them, or not yet?

 

Thanks!

[Asaki]

I think you said you might let us know soon what the latest specs were for the FB2 portable. Any chance you might be able to provide them, or not yet?

 

Besides what's posted here, Curt posted a little something in this thread:

 

 

It is a 2600 on a chip with a separate system handing I/O and Memory scheme management. 2 separate 1MB flash ram systems, one for housekeeping, memory schema's and high-res graphic images/menu. The other is binary storage for the games, and their companion resource files.

 

When plugged into a host PC, the Atari portable goes into drive mode - a USB logo appears on the TFT and now the device looks and acts like a USB thumbdrive.

 

Once unplugged, the system does a software reset, the system first checks the housekeeping memory for any updates to firmware or internal graphics and performs any internal updates. Once complete or if none are present, the system then does an inventory check of the games memory, inventories the resource files, generates the new menu list and initializes the 2600 mode and the menu is presented to the gamer.

[Fort Apocalypse]

Thanks, Asaki!

 

I updated this post where I tried to compile Curt's previous posts to try to get a summary of FB2 specs as we know them currently:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=1331316

 

(Note: atwwong is going to update the FAQ/specs post he had when Curt provides full revised specs again, which we're hoping will be soon. )

 

I think you said you might let us know soon what the latest specs were for the FB2 portable. Any chance you might be able to provide them, or not yet?

 

Besides what's posted here, Curt posted a little something in this thread:

...

[Fort Apocalypse]

Off topic, but I just saw Meltdown for the Atari 2600 was released for free use (may be old news- was new to me):

 

http://www.cgexpo.com/misc.htm

http://www.cgexpo.com/products/meltdown.htm

[SalemFrost7800]

Hi,

hopefully your questions have been answered here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry1305643

 

What happened to the Gameport website? Is this project dead?

[Retro Rogue]

Hi,

hopefully your questions have been answered here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry1305643

 

What happened to the Gameport website? Is this project dead?

 

 

No idea, why not ask it in a Gameport thread instead of the FB2 Portable thread?

[raskar42]

BURN

[SalemFrost7800]

BURN

 

Yes I felt the Burn

[Fort Apocalypse]

I made made a guess at the number of games you could fit on a Flashback 2 portable (about 140-180 of the smallest games including resource files).

 

Curt, have you tried to see how many could fit on it yet, or is it not to that stage yet? What would be the ballpark estimate?

 

Also, is there a name for the project that is holding up the Flashback 2 portable right now?

 

Thanks! Now I'm off to a pool party.

[raskar42]

I made made a guess at the number of games you could fit on a Flashback 2 portable (about 140-180 of the smallest games including resource files).

 

Curt, have you tried to see how many could fit on it yet, or is it not to that stage yet? What would be the ballpark estimate?

 

Also, is there a name for the project that is holding up the Flashback 2 portable right now?

 

Thanks! Now I'm off to a pool party.

 

140 would be amazing

got your game list yet?

[Asaki]

I had a dream last night that I found an old version of the Flashback 3 in a bargain bin. It was shaped like a toy school bus, and had at least 30 different ports on the bottom. Curt came over to my house and modded it for me, but said he'd have to do a few more alterations back home. Then he asked if I had a Visa card, and said that $300 would cover the cost of labor, parts, and airline tickets o_O

 

I told him I'd have to work something out.

 

I think the anticipation is starting to get to me ¬_¬

[raskar42]

I had a dream last night that I found an old version of the Flashback 3 in a bargain bin. It was shaped like a toy school bus, and had at least 30 different ports on the bottom. Curt came over to my house and modded it for me, but said he'd have to do a few more alterations back home. Then he asked if I had a Visa card, and said that $300 would cover the cost of labor, parts, and airline tickets o_O

 

I told him I'd have to work something out.

 

I think the anticipation is starting to get to me ¬_¬

 

 

 

you may be going crazy.

but so long as curt keeps his pants on in your dreams, i think you'll be fine

[Fort Apocalypse]

Ouch...

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2194763/...asdaq-delisting

 

I hate to be a naysayer as I'm a huge fan of Atari in general not to mention the FB2/FB2 portable, but this looks painful. I'm guessing this will impact the project.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Fort Apocalypse

[raskar42]

it's over

the dream is dead

[calfranklin]

Ouch...

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2194763/...asdaq-delisting

 

I hate to be a naysayer as I'm a huge fan of Atari in general not to mention the FB2/FB2 portable, but this looks painful. I'm guessing this will impact the project.

This can't be good for business. What's Atari stock going for? This sounds painfully like 1992-93 all over again. Maybe someone with alot of money and a love of retro gaming with come to their rescue. I hate to see Atari disappear again!

[Flojomojo]

Ouch...

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2194763/...asdaq-delisting

 

I hate to be a naysayer as I'm a huge fan of Atari in general not to mention the FB2/FB2 portable, but this looks painful. I'm guessing this will impact the project.

This can't be good for business. What's Atari stock going for? This sounds painfully like 1992-93 all over again. Maybe someone with alot of money and a love of retro gaming with come to their rescue. I hate to see Atari disappear again!

Microsoft, maybe? They wouldn't be able to make it profitable, but at least they could afford to keep the name alive -- and their retro track record is as good as anyone's lately.