carmel_andrews Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I think the back of the xl keyboard used a placcy pcb, and all you need is one slight crack in the pcb and bang...no more keyboard...that's why i didn't like thexl kb...especially when sillica were charging upwards for 50 GBP just to replace it Whilst the xe kb's weren't brilliant, at least you didn't have the same prob's you would have had with the xl keyboard, as all you would have had to replace was either the membrane or the keyboard itself which wouldn't have cost as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I think the back of the xl keyboard used a placcy pcb, and all you need is one slight crack in the pcb and bang...no more keyboard...that's why i didn't like thexl kb...especially when sillica were charging upwards for 50 GBP just to replace it Whilst the xe kb's weren't brilliant, at least you didn't have the same prob's you would have had with the xl keyboard, as all you would have had to replace was either the membrane or the keyboard itself which wouldn't have cost as much I personally have seen more XE keyboards go bad than XLs. And my original 800 (1980) is still going strong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataridano Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 There's some interesting replies here. I guess one would have to ask how the Atari would be used in order to know which best fit that usage. I'm surprised that people have modified the 1200XL to use it's keyboard, but no mention was made of using a modified keyboard with the XEGS, I'm hoping to use a modified PC keyboard with mine. Also, I got a 130XE specifically for the case, our family's first computer was a 1040ST and I wanted a computer similar to the one I started out on, but not an ST Also, there looks to be quite a few SIO2PC and APE fans, both are great, but personally I prefer actual 8-bit hardware, like maxflash carts and SIO2IDE Anyway, my ideal setup would be a 800XL (because of it's generally good quality and PBI) with a MIO or blackbox. If I could live without the PBI or wanted a better keyboard, I'd go with a XEGS with custom keyboard and SIO2IDE drive, as well as an XF551 if I wanted a floppy. Just my 2 cents...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 There's some interesting replies here. I guess one would have to ask how the Atari would be used in order to know which best fit that usage. I'm surprised that people have modified the 1200XL to use it's keyboard, but no mention was made of using a modified keyboard with the XEGS, I'm hoping to use a modified PC keyboard with mine. Also, I got a 130XE specifically for the case, our family's first computer was a 1040ST and I wanted a computer similar to the one I started out on, but not an ST Also, there looks to be quite a few SIO2PC and APE fans, both are great, but personally I prefer actual 8-bit hardware, like maxflash carts and SIO2IDE Anyway, my ideal setup would be a 800XL (because of it's generally good quality and PBI) with a MIO or blackbox. If I could live without the PBI or wanted a better keyboard, I'd go with a XEGS with custom keyboard and SIO2IDE drive, as well as an XF551 if I wanted a floppy. Just my 2 cents...... I agree that is all personal opinion (don't we all have one?) I posted what I thought would be a system that would be easy for anyone to obtain. Nothing exotic. Personally,I would recommend staying away from XF551 drives. a)They are very expensive. b)They seem to be fragile,not durable. c)Why get involved with DD/DS format? It can cause confusion. It seems to me that the easiest setup (and cheapest!) would be one SS/DD drive and the SIO2PC/APE. Personally,I am a big fan of the Indus GT. (You gotta love them!) One man's humble opinion and aren't things like this fun to discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadmeow Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 I had an XEGS in the 90's. One that I found in a thrift store. Donkey Kong was such a suprise! Anyway the keyboard was "detachable" but you only have like 18 inches of cable on the keyboard, so you can't move it very far. The Atari 800 XL seems like the best all around, since its small and functional. If I really get into, I will buy an Atari 800 XL or maybe an XE. Right now I will see how I do with my Atari 800 and new disk drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I had an XEGS in the 90's. One that I found in a thrift store. Donkey Kong was such a suprise! Anyway the keyboard was "detachable" but you only have like 18 inches of cable on the keyboard, so you can't move it very far. The Atari 800 XL seems like the best all around, since its small and functional. If I really get into, I will buy an Atari 800 XL or maybe an XE. Right now I will see how I do with my Atari 800 and new disk drive. Don't forget the SIO2PC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) My ideal computer is the 1200XL. I love it's keyboard (I've owned 800, 800XL&130XE) and think it's far superior to most others I've used (800 being the next closest, actually nearly non-existant difference in feel and quality to me). The 800 I love the best for it's looks and tank-like contruction, but the 48k limit is it's weakness. With Warerat's new XE rom board all that will change. But the 1200XL's more modern slim-line look and brushed metal trim is just so damn sleek looking I can't help but love it. The problem for me with the other XL and XE models is the very small size, cartridge on top or cheap construction. They look and/or feel too much like "toys" instead of serious computing machines; The 1200XL, though low pro-file, is still large enough to look like a "serious" computer of the day like the 800, Apple II or other computer of the era, yet looks much more sleek and modern. When people see it, they always see it as a sleek vintage computer, not a vintage toy (I get nothing but positive comments) and are suprised when I tell them that initially the "toy" looking 130XE next to it was more powerful. The XE is seen as a vintage game machine. The 1200XL is by no means perfect either, to start with, but if you're into upgrades and hacking, it's the perfect machine with lots of room and an incredible keyboard. With my Rambo XL 256k, AtariMax 32-in-1 OS(with choice of basic rev.), Super video, Pokey stereo and SIO power pin hack, I've fixed/removed the 1200's bugs, and upgraded it beyond any other Atari 8-bit stock machine, compatible with EVERYTHING 8-bit. I love the 1200's slanted side joystick ports (also the 800's front ports) and I love the 1200's easy access yet recessed side cart port (also the 800 hidden top cart ports). The 1200XL is also still built like a tank too (a light tank compared to the 800 heavy tank). But if you just want the best stock Atari 8-bit for playing games and don't want to upgrade at all, then the 800XL is the best choice for you; though the stock 1200XL's "bugs" are over-rated and it will work fine with 99.99% of what the 800XL will work with, I never had a problem before upgrading, so maybe the 1200XL is still the best, even for the casual user. But if your 800 in storage is still working, it may yet be the ideal Atari for you; it will still run, my guess is about 80%, of Atari software, and if you want to upgrade it later to the ideal Atari, then you need to look no further than right here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=95123 Edited January 7, 2007 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Looking over the replies, it looks like the general consensus leans toward the 800XL. I'm surprised to see a polarized opinion of the 130's looks. I think it looks better than any other A8 except maybe the 1200, but it really is very subjective and a matter of personal taste isn't it? I wish the XEGS didn't have those pastel round buttons Is there a mod for those? Edited January 10, 2007 by FastRobPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 There are at least 4 XL keyboard types. Some are way better than others, but none compare to the 1200XL. The XE line has always seemed mushy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Just to confirm - the XE can be improved with a kit, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 like i said...the only reason xe kb's went bad is because atari (or whoever made the xe pcb) put in the wrong value resister for the keyboard Apparently after a years use, the keyobard placcy tracks contact's become oxidized or something like that but as i understand it the placcy keyboard membrane the xe uses as very cheap to replace In regards to the xe keyboard upgrade (i.e making the keyboard more responsive/tactile) i think brad koda at best electronics as got something in that mould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross PK Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Looking over the replies, it looks like the general consensus leans toward the 800XL. I'm surprised to see a polarized opinion of the 130's looks. I think it looks better than any other A8 except maybe the 1200, but it really is very subjective and a matter of personal taste isn't it? I wish the XEGS didn't have those pastel round buttons Is there a mod for those? They've always reminded me of a make-up tray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I wish the XEGS didn't have those pastel round buttons Is there a mod for those? I wish they were on the keyboard instead of the console... ...though I understand why they're not (supposedly, the keyboard is optional). Did Atari ever actually sell the XEGS without the keyboard, as a plain console? I've never seen one without the keyboard, but it must be said that I wasn't really paying attention back when the XEGS was being made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Did Atari ever actually sell the XEGS without the keyboard, as a plain console? I've never seen one without the keyboard, but it must be said that I wasn't really paying attention back when the XEGS was being made... I think it was sold outside of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 With upgrades, the main overall differences are the cases and keyboards. And, the 800 with the four joystick ports is a whole lot of fun with four player games. But, that's why I prefer the 600XL, it's the most compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Zeptari Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 This might be a REALLY dumb question. But how to you transfer downloaded 8-bit software on a morden PC to the built in CF card in a real 8-bit machine? -Rick The "real" ATARI 8-Bit for main usage is the 800 XL with some upgrades e.g. memory up to 1 MB, built in CompactFlash device or something else. The XEs are same as 800 XL, but something of cheaper production makes them less perfect. Some Pros & Cons: 800 XL XE Series ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keyboard: in most cases better than XE less Quality, but XEGS has seperate one! Memory: 64k 128 k (130 XE) or 64k (65XE/800XE/XEGS) Video: no real red color (I know only PAL in reality.) has sharper picture even with composite only some later boards have a poti to gain signal video, there is a poti to gain the best signal, colors are little different e.g. red can be seen misc: has seperate modul port and PBI no real PBI, on some boards only modul port some machines have a built in error in BASIC language Hope that short list may help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 think pps means the Atarimax myIDE http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataridano Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Assuming the CF device is being used as an IDE drive, you'd just format it and read/write it just as if it were a harddrive. Files could be transfered from floppy, RS232, CD, APE, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I wish the XEGS didn't have those pastel round buttons Is there a mod for those? I wish they were on the keyboard instead of the console... ...though I understand why they're not (supposedly, the keyboard is optional). Did Atari ever actually sell the XEGS without the keyboard, as a plain console? I've never seen one without the keyboard, but it must be said that I wasn't really paying attention back when the XEGS was being made... As I recall, some of them are on the keyboard, open it up and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Just to confirm - the XE can be improved with a kit, right? "65XE / 130XE “The Best” “XE” Touch (Formally called “TT” Touch for XE computers) Improved Silicone Cups that replaces the existing spongy / mushy feeling cups inside the XE Keyboard to give you a firm feeling keyboard with tactile feed back on each key stroke. XE Touch will only fit two out of the three versions / brand Atari Keyboards used on the XE Series Computers. If your XE keyboard DOES NOT have spring under each key cap, then you have the right XE keyboard that can be upgraded to “XE” Touch. All that is required for installation is a #0 Phillips screw driver. Full set of 62 “XE” Touch Contacts. CB102117 $29.95 Special Buy!! $14.50 Now a Must Buy for every 65XE / 130XE Owner!" http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/130xe.htm I've not used it, however I didn't know that some XE keyboards had springs!! Mine don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Good info. I have an XEGS and a 130XE that I'd like to have a better keyboard with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetle Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/130xe.htm I've not used it, however I didn't know that some XE keyboards had springs!! Mine don't. I had this set in my 800XE back in the days. It was really a great improvement, imho good investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I've not used it, however I didn't know that some XE keyboards had springs!! Mine don't. I wish the industry hadn't moved away from keyboards with springs... I have plenty of good keyboards from the 1980s/90s still (IBM Model M's), but every time I have to use someone else's keyboard, I might as well not know how to touch type. My fingers can't feel the key mechanism activating, and if I barely touch the key next to the one I'm trying to press (I have big fingers), both keys get typed... Even the XEGS keyboard, springless piece of junk that it is, offers a little more resistance than the garbage keyboards that come with new PCs these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I wish the industry hadn't moved away from keyboards with springs... I have plenty of good keyboards from the 1980s/90s still (IBM Model M's), but every time I have to use someone else's keyboard, I might as well not know how to touch type. My fingers can't feel the key mechanism activating, and if I barely touch the key next to the one I'm trying to press (I have big fingers), both keys get typed... Even the XEGS keyboard, springless piece of junk that it is, offers a little more resistance than the garbage keyboards that come with new PCs these days... I have been keeping my eye out for older keyboards. I have the adapters for AT to PS2. I have these mushy keyboards all my life. Since getting the nicer 8bit keyboards, I have been searching for the older PC keyboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadmeow Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) My favorite keyboard of all time is the Apple IIgs keyboard. I read somewhere, that there is a ADB to USB adapter, if thats true I am gonna use my IIgs keyboard on my PC. http://obsoletecomputermuseum.org/app_iigs/funkykey.jpg I am currently using an Apple Blueberry IMac keyboard on my PC. Its a little bigger than the Apple IIgs keyboard, but it is still compact and a great keyboard. It has really small function keys and a really nice design. http://monkey.org/~aaron/photos/misc/nicks...ac-keyboard.jpg I still miss the clicks of my Apple IIe spring loaded keyboard. Edited January 12, 2007 by deadmeow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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