Krokodile Cart - Review

[+Andrew Davie]

Thought I'd fire a quick first-hand report to the list on this new '2600 cartridge from Kroko (who has posted here, too).

 

In short, the Krokodile Cart (not it's official name -- yet is now in prototype form. The designer, Armin, first created a wire-wrapped spiderweb, got it working and then ordered three actual boards to his design. These worked (except for the RAM) and I have agreed to purchase one of them with a view to testing and assisting with development on future prototypes.

 

The cartridge arrived on my doorstep a few days ago. It is exceptionally well-made, and comes completely enclosed in a standard '2600 cartridge shell. The Krokodile Cart emulates '2600 cartridges including many differing bankswitching schemes. Of particular interest to me are the 512KB ROM support, and future 128KB RAM -- and note, Kroko has been asking about RAM-based bankswitch schemes. Something to consider carefully, given that this cartridge may form the basic development system for a lot of us (if I get my way!). The proto I have does not have extra RAM due to a small glitch in the original design Thus, the RAM-bankswitch schemes are not functional on this particular unit. That problem has already been fixed, though, so it's a non-issue.

 

This thing is fantastic. Obviously there are a few rough edges -- but not many, and for a first-up proto, it's amazing. I have successfully downloaded all of my demos that I've not previously seen running on the real thing. Well, they all worked just fine. Downloading a 512KB ROM takes just under a minute - but a simple 4K ROM takes around half a second... barely enough time to blink!

 

The cartridge keeps the ROM data intact even when powered down. Evidenced by the fact that Kroko shipped this to me from Germany with the Dancing Baby ROM saved on it... and it made it here just fine and worked first time I plugged it in. It's quite possible for this thing to become the multicart to end all multicarts -- 512K could hold 128 of your favourite 4K ROMs, for example, with a simple menu selection program. That's in the future -- for now, just a single ROM at a time, but the potential is enormous. Once you have your program downloaded to the Krokodile Cart, it looks and behaves just like any other 'cart. Take it with you and plug it into a friend's machine (without its power supply)... and it will work just fine, with your program running.

 

The PC software interface is well designed, and intuitive. Armin is planning a command-line interface, too, so we can all use this device from our makefiles. But for now, it's a windowed utility providing selectable files, bankswitching, and an inbuilt MD5 checksum and file database for automatic configuration. Download is via serial cable, male to female. The cartridge requires its own power supply (6VDC). Both the power input and serial port are carefully installed in the top-end of the standard '2600 cartridge.

 

This cartridge is the CuttleCart we all wanted, but could never get. I would recommend you all put in your orders for this beauty NOW, because the greater the demand, the quicker they'll get to final production. I'm absolutely stoked with the potential this thing has, and VERY impressed with the fine work Kroko has done in design and production.

 

Rating: 10/10

 

Cheers

A

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Sounds really great.

 

I only wonder why an external power supply is necessary.

 

How much

[maibock]

*drools*

 

nice work!

[YarsRevengeFan]

This is incredible!

 

Now, if it could be priced at my price range, that would be awesome! :wink:

 

I could tell my wife "Honey, if I buy this I will never have to buy another cartridge again!"

[Spirantho]

I only wonder why an external power supply is necessary.  

 

Given it has to use Flash ROM (otherwise it would lose the data with no power) I would imagine it's so it doesn't draw too much power from the 2600's cartridge slot.

 

I agree though - how much?

 

As a pre-orderer of a Cuttle Cart II I doubt I'd need this widget but it looks nice nonetheless!

[raindog]

I already have a CC1, don't have a 7800 so the CC2 is worthless to me, and would really like one of these. Looking forward to being able to preorder in some reputable fashion.

[Brad2600]

If I had the cash, I'd get something like this.

 

It definitely sounds sweet by Andrew's description.

[Kroko]

Thanks again for the great feedback, Andrew :-)

 

The power supply is needed for programming. With the current

design, it is not possible to program it reliably with the VCS

switched on. But it needs power from somewhere.

 

I would have had to cut of the databus and the lower 7 address-lines from

the VCS for reliable in system programming. That would have required a different CPLD version which is more expensive and doesn't exist in a PLCC package.

 

For the next version, I will put a jumper on the board. I will test if the cart will run without external supply if it is connected to the VCS supply. There are two things that have to be tested: Maximum current drawn from the VCS and also the "startup time" of the microcontroller. I hope it will start fast enough. So maybe, there will be a version that runs without external power (at least if used as a standard cart which is not reprogrammed).

 

But then you would have to remove it from the VCS everytime you reprogram it, because otherwise the cartridge powers the VCS during programming and that will not work.

 

Well the decision is difficult, we will see .....

 

The price will most likely be in the 100 Euro region. I still don't know, how much a label a box and a manual would cost if someone made them for me. And the design is not yet completed. This is why I cannot be more accurate at this time.

[TheAtariKid]

I'll order one.

[Goochman]

Andrew,

 

Just curious how you would compare this to the Cuttle Cart II that was just released?

[ajaxlex]

Kroko, just wondering if you would consider making this available as a kit (discounted) for us hobbyists with light wallets and soldering irons...? Thanks!

[Kroko]

Hi ajaxlex !

 

I am not planning this. The chips have to be programmed and the system has to be tested somehow. If you solder this thing together on your own, then nobody would know why it is not working (just in case ...)

 

Do you have an idea, how a kit could be sold ? How could we solve this problem. Who would "repair" them , in case people are not able to build them properly ? I guess that would have to be me

 

Kroko

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Do you have an idea, how a kit could be sold ? How could we solve this problem. Who would "repair" them , in case people are not able to build them properly ? I guess that would have to be me  

How about making the layout etc. public? Maybe after your initial run has sold out?

[vb_master]

Do you have an idea, how a kit could be sold ? How could we solve this problem. Who would "repair" them , in case people are not able to build them properly ? I guess that would have to be me  

How about making the layout etc. public? Maybe after your initial run has sold out?

That's what I has thinking.

[Kroko]

How about making the layout etc. public? Maybe after your initial run has sold out?

 

Yes, I will do that. I have always planned this as an open source project.

 

I will finish the development, sell a few devices to get back prototyping costs and publish the stuff afterwards.

 

Maybe if there is enough demand we can order a bigger amount of chips and PCBs which would reduce costs

 

Kroko

[neotokeo2001]

How about making the layout etc. public? Maybe after your initial run has sold out?

 

Yes, I will do that. I have always planned this as an open source project.

 

I will finish the development, sell a few devices to get back prototyping costs and publish the stuff afterwards.

 

Maybe if there is enough demand we can order a bigger amount of chips and PCBs which would reduce costs

 

Kroko

 

I would definetly like to get one.

[+Andrew Davie]

Andrew,

 

Just curious how you would compare this to the Cuttle Cart II that was just released?

 

This device runs on the Atari 2600. From what I know about the Cuttle Cart II, it sounds like a wonderful device - but it is not what I need. What I need is a programmable cartridge which works on the '2600. The Cuttle Cart II does NOT do that, though it does allow you to run '2600 software on a 7800.

 

I don't think it's really fair to either to compare the two. If you want a cartridge which will run on your Atari 2600, and which supports the latest and greatest '2600 homebrews -- then go for a Krokodile Cart. If you want to play on your '7800 and want to put every single '2600 game on a single media, then go for a Cuttle Cart II.

 

I am sure they are both made with great skill and care -- and are both excellent value for money. Buy them both! Or, consider very carefully HOW you intend to use your cartridge (for programming? Keeping a library of games?) and then purchase accordingly.

 

For me, it's the Krokodile cart.

 

Cheers

A

[Goochman]

Andrew,

 

Just curious how you would compare this to the Cuttle Cart II that was just released?

 

This device runs on the Atari 2600. From what I know about the Cuttle Cart II, it sounds like a wonderful device - but it is not what I need. What I need is a programmable cartridge which works on the '2600. The Cuttle Cart II does NOT do that, though it does allow you to run '2600 software on a 7800.

 

I don't think it's really fair to either to compare the two. If you want a cartridge which will run on your Atari 2600, and which supports the latest and greatest '2600 homebrews -- then go for a Krokodile Cart. If you want to play on your '7800 and want to put every single '2600 game on a single media, then go for a Cuttle Cart II.

 

I am sure they are both made with great skill and care -- and are both excellent value for money. Buy them both! Or, consider very carefully HOW you intend to use your cartridge (for programming? Keeping a library of games?) and then purchase accordingly.

 

For me, it's the Krokodile cart.

 

Cheers

A

 

Ok,

Just some clarifications - You can do the programming stuff with CC2 but it requires a 7800 for both 2600 and 7800 stuff (same kind of cable hookup). However, this RAM thing is prob a bit different than the CC2 - Im trying to understand if I would want both or not since there is alot of overlap.

 

The CC2 supports Supercharger Games as well - does this cart also support this format?

[RangerG]

Wow - this sounds terrific and I would 100% buy one. Please include the "multi-cart" function described so that the owner can save games to the cart. This is like an upgraded Cuttle Cart in my mind in that I don't need to save to a CD to play games/roms. Best of luck, keep us posted, and make sure the finished product has easy user instructions.

 

Looks great!

[crsdawg]

this project is looking good. i'm a guy who had to lay off the cuttle cart because of cost reasons. if this is sold in the $100 price range as mentioned in another thread, it will be very tempting.

 

multicart functions would be a must tho(as mentioned in the review).

 

also integrating some sort of removeable media, or even a zif socket would make it even more attractive.

 

keep up the good work.

[Paul Slocum]

Just some clarifications - You can do the programming stuff with CC2 but it requires a 7800 for both 2600 and 7800 stuff (same kind of cable hookup).

 

Yeah, the CC2 comes with a serial interface for easily loading ROM images.

 

However, this RAM thing is prob a bit different than the CC2 - Im trying to understand if I would want both or not since there is alot of overlap.

 

My understanding is that the CC2 can also support the 512K ROM + 128K RAM mode that is being discussed for the KC. The CC2 supports reconfigurable bankswitching, so when a new bankswitching scheme comes out, support for it can be added to the CC2 by simply updating a file on the memory card.

 

The CC2 supports Supercharger Games as well - does this cart also support this format?

 

I don't think it does.

 

The CC2 pretty much has all the features of the KC and a few more, but only runs on the 7800 and costs twice as much. You just gotta decide if the extra features are worth another $100. For me, the 7800 game support and reconfigurable bankswitching were worth it.

 

-paul

[Goochman]

Thanks Paul, I bought a CC2 before knowing about this but it sounds like for me there wouldnt be additional value.

[Stingray]

This is a really amazing device. I'd be very interested in one if as others have said, it supports multicart functions.

 

-S

[Kuddy]

I missed my chance to get a Cuttle Cart 2, but I'm sure as hell not going to miss out on my opportunity to purchase one of these. Time to start saving up...