2600 Video Mod Comparison site updated

[+Nathan Strum]

For those interested in adding a video mod to their 2600, my Atari 2600 Video Mods Comparison Project has been completely updated.

 

I completely re-tested every mod, and captured new (and better) screen shots of the mods in action. I've also updated the results to reflect the new tests, and expanded some of the other information on the site.

 

Also, the screen captures all have thumbnails now, so you can more easily see what's available.

 

The tests include Ben Heckendorn's mod, the CD4050 mod, the CyberTech S-video mod, and several others.

 

Enjoy!

[InanimateCarbonRod]

Any plans on including Povlok1's mod as well?

 

Jerry

[InanimateCarbonRod]

Good work by the way!

 

Just curious about the quality of Povlok's mod. I paid for one of his modded units a while ago, just waiting for it to turn up!

 

Jerry

[+Nathan Strum]

He was planning to loan me a modded 2600 board to test several months ago, but that never seemed to materialize. I'd be happy to add it to the site though if I can get ahold of one.

[Albert]

That's a great page, thanks!

 

..Al

[GamebaseST]

The link for the Cyberlink S-Video (www.atari2600.com) doesn't work. Is this just bad timing on my part or is the site gone now?

 

I'd like to buy one of those, preferably in the UK but direct from the states if necessary. Are there are other people selling them?

 

Rob

[Whisper]

Oooh new eye candy! Liked the first version of the page, love the updated one! Strange though that from the screenshots Ben H's mod seems to produce the best picture...

[+Nathan Strum]

The link for the Cyberlink S-Video (www.atari2600.com) doesn't work.  Is this just bad timing on my part or is the site gone now?

 

I'd like to buy one of those, preferably in the UK but direct from the states if necessary.  Are there are other people selling them?

 

I can't get to the site right now either. I assume it's just a temporary glitch.

 

I don't believe anyone else is selling the CyberTech mod. When Chris Wilkson gets back later this week I'm sure he'll have more info.

 

Oooh new eye candy! Liked the first version of the page, love the updated one! Strange though that from the screenshots Ben H's mod seems to produce the best picture...

 

That's the main reason I included screen captures. Everyone has their own criteria as to what they're looking for, picture-wise.

 

Ben's mod can produce very bright pictures, but the colors are a bit off (although it's all relative if you don't have a stock 2600 to compare against) and there tends to be more noise in the picture than with the S-video mods. But it looks much better than RF does, and it's dirt-simple and cheap to build.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Ben's mod can produce very bright pictures, but the colors are a bit off (although it's all relative if you don't have a stock 2600 to compare against)...

Couldn't you just adjust the brightness before taking the pictures? That would make comparing them much easier.

[sku_u]

That's an excellent site you put together. It's now bookmarked on my machine for reference. The only thing I ended up disagreeing on was the advice to shoot some contact cleaner into a termpermental switchbox as contact cleaner solidifies over time, making the problem bigger. On your advice, I picked up a 7 input Pelican AV station (not the 5 input).

 

I'd like to try some of those mods on a few of my systems. I was wondering if you had plans to expand the site to include the CV mods and 5200 mods?

[+Nathan Strum]

I just noticed I'm on the front page at AtariAge! I'm famous!

 

Couldn't you just adjust the brightness before taking the pictures? That would make comparing them much easier.

 

It would have been nice to sort of balance them all out, but the only ones where any adjustment can be made are Ben's and the CyberTech mod. With Ben's, I adusted it until the test patterns (color phase, color bars and grayscale) were as close to "normal" as I could possibly get them. There was no way to turn down the overall brightness. In fact, Ben's mod only got brighter the more out-of-adjustment it got. With the CyberTech mod, the adjustment pots had a dab of glue on them to keep them in place, so I left them at the factory settings.

 

Basically, the difference in brightness is inherent in the various mods, so the tests results accurately reflect that. Any external adjustments I would have made to compensate would have thrown that off.

 

The only thing I ended up disagreeing on was the advice to shoot some contact cleaner into a termpermental switchbox as contact cleaner solidifies over time, making the problem bigger.  On your advice, I picked up a 7 input Pelican AV station (not the 5 input).

 

I'd like to try some of those mods on a few of my systems.  I was wondering if you had plans to expand the site to include the CV mods and 5200 mods?

 

I haven't had a problem with contact cleaner solidifying, but then I haven't tested this particular cleaner long-term. The cleaner I use seems to be very good stuff though, and I used it on my four-switch's four-switches, and so far so good. If it gunks up, then I'll append the page accordingly. (And I'll be in some trouble too, since I've been cleaning cartridge contacts with it.)

 

Is your 7-input Pelican this one?? It looks like about all it's missing is a remote control. (Looks expensive, too.)

 

I don't have any plans to expand the site beyond the 2600, since I don't own any other classic system (apart from a 7800). I'll have to leave that to someone else.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[sku_u]

I haven't had a problem with contact cleaner solidifying, but then I haven't tested this particular cleaner long-term. The cleaner I use seems to be very good stuff though, and I used it on my four-switch's four-switches, and so far so good. If it gunks up, then I'll append the page accordingly. (And I'll be in some trouble too, since I've been cleaning cartridge contacts with it.)

 

The problem with most contact cleaners is that they do not completely dissolve, especially when in a closed environment and that they are flammable. I had a bad experience with contact cleaner. I tend to use rubbing alcohol when cleaning electronics becuase it dissolves rapidly and doesn't leave any residue. The contact cleaner I had a bad experience with was the contact cleaner that can be purchased from Radio Shack.

 

Is your 7-input Pelican this one?? It looks like about all it's missing is a remote control. (Looks expensive, too.)

 

Yes, that's the one. I managed to find one for $59.99. I have a number of game systems and media that I'd like to connect to my home entertainment center that I currently can't because of a lack of AV outputs.

[+Nathan Strum]

I tend to use rubbing alcohol when cleaning electronics becuase it dissolves rapidly and doesn't leave any residue.  The contact cleaner I had a bad experience with was the contact cleaner that can be purchased from Radio Shack.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't use the Radio Shack stuff. I think it's actually just repackaged 7-Up.

 

I've used alcohol, too. But the MG Chem stuff I've been using has been working very well. It's cleaned crud off of cart contacts that alcohol wouldn't. Hopefully it won't gum up over time, but I think it's considerably better grade than what Radio Shack sells.

 

"Radio Shack - you've got questions, we've got cell phones."

[aradia]

Or, if you can reach the contacts, the ultra-cheap method is a pencil eraser. I broke one off the end of a pencil and stashed it in the glove compartment of my old Alfa for cleaning the fusebox contacts. It'll shine contacts faster than you can say... umm... well, it does a pretty darn good job. =)

[cwilkson]

Hey...I'm back!

 

First, a big "thank you!" to Nathan for all his hard work on the new comparison page. (and a knowing congrats...that's a lot of work )

And a special thanks for the CyberTech installation hints.

 

Nathan, does the CyberTech board really look that bad on your setup? I know you mention that the captures were verified in realtime vs. a live feed. But the shifting looks horrible! What was your capture resolution? It looks like the pixels are quite large compared to a real display? This could be a TIA thing, but I wouldn't expect it to be that bad. The trees are a TIA thing, but the red cross shifting isn't. (at least it shouldn't be.) It also looks like you've got some bleed from the chroma over onto the luma. You can fix this by reducing the saturation.

 

I wanted to let you know that all the pots are freely adjustable. The glue dab is there to lock in the spec during shipping. It should give a video signal that is 1V peak to peak into 75 Ohms, with a 286mV (40 IRE) sync level, and a 1:1 chroma saturation level. The peak to peak level doesn't change, no matter what you do to the pots.

 

On your Rev 0 board, I believe they're labeled: BRIGHT(ness), CONT(rast), and SAT(uration). Saturation is adjustable all the way...you should have no adverse effects beyond the standard color bleed caused by oversaturation and 2 vertical lines, one oon each edge ofthe picture. You'll see the blue line on the left and the (pink or green) line on the right get worse with higher saturation levels.

 

A couple of notes on the luma controls:

 

You probably want to leave the brightness all the way down. Otherwise you'll get a truly black screen border, with gray instead of black in the actual game image (including the HMOVE lines). The usual way of saying this is that you'll get a "blacker-than-black" screen border.

 

And if you adjust the contrast too high, you'll lose sync. If there's a Rev 2 version, the bright and contrast controls will be done differently, fixing some of the issues. But I consider them minor issues at this point, not worth messing with really. They only misbehave when they are working outside the NTSC specs.

 

Anyway, feel free to set the pots anyway you like! It's all about personal taste.

 

-Chris

[cwilkson]

Grr...stupid no editting....

 

I just realized that you said the captures *did* exaggerate the color shifting. Sorry.

 

-Chris

[cwilkson]

The link for the Cyberlink S-Video (www.atari2600.com) doesn't work.  Is this just bad timing on my part or is the site gone now?

 

I'd like to buy one of those, preferably in the UK but direct from the states if necessary.  Are there are other people selling them?

 

Rob

 

You mean CyberTech.

 

I don't know if the link was down for a while, or what...I didn't have web access. But it's working for me now. Let me know if you're still haveing problems.

 

-Chris

[+Nathan Strum]

First, a big "thank you!" to Nathan for all his hard work on the new comparison page.  (and a knowing congrats...that's a lot of work) And a special thanks for the CyberTech installation hints.

 

Glad to finally get it done. Took me only six months to get around to it.

 

Nathan, does the CyberTech board really look that bad on your setup?

 

Then...

 

I just realized that you said the captures *did* exaggerate the color shifting.  Sorry.  

 

I suppose I could have made that point clearer on the page. When any video gets captured to a computer like that, you're just seeing pure picture data, and don't have the benefit of it being filtered through an NTSC monitor. Computers are far less forgiving - DV actually captures a wider range than legal NTSC, so you're seeing more video information on the frame grabs than most TVs will display. Also, DV is capturing a non-square pixel (720x480), so it exaggerates the width of the image.

 

There was no way to really show what it looks like on NTSC. I attempted taking pictures of the monitor, but without a proper setup, I just couldn't get satisfactory results. But since the same issue affects all of the mods, the relative differences between them are still accurately reflected in the frame captures.

 

I suppose a workaround would have been to resize the images to 640x480, add scanlines and adjust the gamma in Photoshop, but that didn't seem like an objective approach.

 

I was really impressed with the CyberTech's picture on a professional monitor though. I just wish I had a TV at home that looked that good.

 

Oh, and Atari2600.com said they'd send me a replacement capacitor after all. Of course, I don't need it now, but it was nice of them anyway.

 

I wanted to let you know that all the pots are freely adjustable.  The glue dab is there to lock in the spec during shipping.

 

Anyway, feel free to set the pots anyway you like!  It's all about personal taste.

 

Well, I felt since the mod came pre-adjusted, I'd leave it that way for the sake of testing. I thought that was the most fair approach, since that's how the mod would arrive to other people. Ben's required adjusting, so I had to tweak his.

 

Besides, I really don't want to open up my poor 2600 again. It's starting to feel abused, and just wants to play games for awhile. (It's current favorite is Star Fire.)

[cwilkson]

Yeah, I sometimes have nightmares about your poor console's fate.

 

That all makes sense. I found that capturing at VGA (640x480) gives a much more accurate view of what NTSC really looks like on a monitor.

Unfortunately, the images are 4x the size and it starts to add up.

 

Good work still. I finally got my hands on another 2600 Jr. I installed a Rev 1.0 CyberTech card in it, replaced the shield and everything and closed the case. No bulging, no nothing. It's beautiful!

 

Here's a pic...

 

-Chris

[+Nathan Strum]

Yeah, I sometimes have nightmares about your poor console's fate.  

 

It's much happier now that I bought it some homebrews. Although I fear it may become addicted, which could get expensive.

 

Aside from a couple of partially-stripped screw holes (pesky aluminum shield), the only problem I'm having with it is that Midnight Magic doesn't always work right. Apparently, that game randomly loads one of several demo modes at power up (I think there are four of them), and my 2600 just gives me garbage when two of them come up. Sometimes, it will reset the game after about 30 seconds, but then plays fine. My four-switch 2600, however, works just fine with that cart and runs all demo modes, so it isn't the cart. It hasn't affected any other game yet. I'm not sure what's going on - something isn't right somewhere, but if that's the extent of the problem, I can live with it. I never noticed it before I installed the mod, but I removed the mod temporarily, and it was still happening.

 

During testing though, I discovered something about Activision games, which may already be common knowledge. "Dead" Activision games may not be dead. I had a Pitfall II that simply wouldn't work, even after cleaning the contacts, and trying it in two different 2600s. I discovered that if I inserted all the way, then pulled it out slightly (where there's still resistance), then powered up, it would make proper contact and work just fine. I'm not sure exactly why this is the case - maybe Activision carts have thinner circuit boards or contacts that wear out quicker.

 

I finally got my hands on another 2600 Jr.  I installed a Rev 1.0 CyberTech card in it, replaced the shield and everything and closed the case.  No bulging, no nothing.  It's beautiful!

 

Someday I'll have to try and pick up a cheap Jr. to test the mods for it shown in the FAQ. But I'm in no rush.

[cwilkson]

Yeah, activision pcbs are thinner. So they sometimes (most of the time actually) don't make good contact. And Pitfall II unfortunately, is one of the worst. My solution is to fold a piece of paper a few times and wedge it in beside the cart. It works pretty well.

 

-Chris

[+Nathan Strum]

I had something *really* weird happen last night with my CyberTech modded 2600...

 

I plugged in my SuperCharger, and fired up Escape from the MindMaster, only to get to the first maze, and discover that it was invisible! The entire top two-thirds of the screen, where the maze is, was solid blue.

 

Sort of like this:

 

I could still see the map below, and move through the maze. The puzzle pieces and the little alien guy were still visible, and I could even stumble around and find the doorways. I reloaded the game a couple of times, but it kept doing the same thing.

 

I was wondering if somehow, the CyberTech mod was misadjusted, and was making the two blues bleed together. I could tell there was something on the top part of the screen, but I couldn't distinguish any shapes.

 

In the end, it turned out to be my TV set. I just bumped down the Color setting a few notches, and suddenly the maze appeared, and life was good again...

 

 

Sure had me going there for a minute though. Weird stuff.

 

BTW, I made a few minor changes to the mod comparison page. Just to clarify a few things that have come up. If anyone spots anything else, please let me know.

 

I'm also planning to test another mod (or two) and add those to the site in the coming weeks. So stay tuned.

[cwilkson]

Hrrmmmm.....

 

How does your tv picture look if you watch the news? (Or any other live broadcast that includes people's faces?) I suspected before that the color setting on your CyberTech card was set too high. If normal tv images look washed out now, that's probably the problem.

 

Heh...I made the color adjustable so that people wouldn't need to adjust their tv/monitor because of the 2600. Now look what you've done!!!

 

-Chris

[+Nathan Strum]

How does your tv picture look if you watch the news?  (Or any other live broadcast that includes people's faces?)  I suspected before that the color setting on your CyberTech card was set too high.

 

Yeah, they look a little washed out now. The 2600's colors look pretty over-saturated if I leave my TV where it was (I use the Video Essentials test patterns to calibrate it). Admittedly, my TV is pretty ancient, so that's part of the problem. I should plug in my unmodded 2600, and see what MindMaster looks like.

 

However, an invisible maze adds a whole new twist to MindMaster. Could make for a good sequel!

 

Heh...I made the color adjustable so that people wouldn't need to adjust their tv/monitor because of the 2600.  Now look what you've done!!!  

 

Yeah, it's all my fault for... hey... waitaminute! I don't recall anything in the CyberTech instructions about how to "properly adjust the color". Why I oughta...

 

(What's really needed, is a 2600 cart that generates true split SMPTE color bars with pluge, that could be checked with a blue filter. The VideoSoft cart can't do that.)

 

Well, the color is definitely over-saturated... here are vectorscope displays of the color bar cart, from the captured video.

 

RF:

 

CyberTech:

 

CD4050:

 

Ben's mod:

 

I hate the thought of adjusting the thing... since that means I should probably go back and recapture the tests for it.

 

But I suppose I oughta.

 

Aren't those guys at Atari2600.com supposed to check these somehow before they go out the door?

[cwilkson]

I hate the thought of adjusting the thing... since that means I should probably go back and recapture the tests for it.

 

But I suppose I oughta.

 

Oh, your poor, poor Atari!!!!

 

Aren't those guys at Atari2600.com supposed to check these somehow before they go out the door?

 

Yes, they are. And they do. But they don't have a vectorscope I assume, and I don't have one either. Er, well...I do, but I can't get to it, don't know how to use it, and I got it after when I needed it, etc.

 

I told them to adjust it so that the burst/scanline amplitude ratio was 1:1. Maybe that's too much? But it was impossible to find chroma information without paying the $350 for the spec. GRRR.

 

Do you have the ability to measure the chroma amplitude vs. the color burst? Or do you know the proper ratio off the top of your head? If so, I would be forever indebted to you if you could pass along the correct value.

 

-Chris

 

PS. Those are cool vectorgrams. Are those from a software vectorscope package? Or are they from a hardware 'scope?