No love for Defender

[shadow460]

I've come to realize something. It doesn't matter what platform the game is played on...Defender just plain sucks. I think the best platform I've played it on was actually the Saturn, but that's still not saying much.

 

I looked at the reviews for the 5200 version, and amazingly, they are almost all positive. I didn't think the reviews would be off in any way, since many good games get good marks and many bad games get bad marks. I dunno, maybe my cart of Defender is the only one that didn't come pre packed with weed.

 

I posted this here because I like the 5200 version the least. The other versions have tight control, but it gets boring after a while. Between the controls and the horrid collision detection, though, I think the 5200 cart of mine will be the one copy that collects the most dust.

 

Anyone else think this game is absolutely terrible?

[Gabriel]

Uhm, no.

 

My only complaint is that it's too easy. The real Defender is hard as hell. Both the 2600 and 5200 Defender are laughably easy to play forever.

[JB]

I've never actually PLAYED 5200 Defender for any length of time, though I LOVE the 99/4a version.

 

All I can say about the 5200 version is it has the most pathetically half-assed demo I've ever seen.

[shadow460]

Uhm, no.

 

My only complaint is that it's too easy. The real Defender is hard as hell. Both the 2600 and 5200 Defender are laughably easy to play forever.

 

You play it with a Wico stick of the stock 5200 hand controller?

[deadmeow]

At least its better than the laughable Atari 2600 version.

[Cobra Kai]

This game + Competition Pro = bliss.

 

The audio in the 5200 version is awesome, thats the only word to describe it. The game is easier than the arcade for sure, but I like the fact that its not frustratingly hard. This game rocks, your opinion is wrong

Edited March 9, 2007 by Gunstarhero

[jetset]

Aw man, Defender for the 5200 is awesome!!! That game was one of THE reasons to own a 5200 back in the day! I still think it stands as one of the best coin-op conversions of it's time. Agreed though it does get to be too easy after a while...but to me that shows how great the controller is for this game. When you play Defender on the 2600, or Colevovision, or even the Atari computer line, yor hand gets cramped after a while from having to contantly push left or right the whole game without break. The non-self centering of the 5200 stick that everyone whines about is perfect for this game. The graphics are great, the sound is great...what's not great about this game?

I say no love for Defender haters.

[Goochman]

I played it on the 800 and loved it - fun and frantic, though a tad too easy. I like it better than the 2600 and Jag version (control pad on Jag not good for this in classic mode)

[Gregory DG]

The Jag version of Defender classic is my fav. The 5200/8-bit is good, but I don't like the oversize version of the ship.

[Gabriel]

Uhm, no.

 

My only complaint is that it's too easy. The real Defender is hard as hell. Both the 2600 and 5200 Defender are laughably easy to play forever.

 

You play it with a Wico stick of the stock 5200 hand controller?

 

stock 5200 controller.

 

Oh. Once again, if anyone gets the urge to hack Defender, here's what I would like:

 

1) an option on the difficulty screen for the buttons 7, 8, and 9 to control the extra man point interval: 7 could be 10K (default), 8 could be 20K, and 9 could be 30K. This would actually go a long way towards addressing the game's lack of difficulty.

 

2) Auto-Fire.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Gabriel

[Major_Havoc]

My primary problem with the 8-bit Defender is when the screen gets hyper crowded it's hard to tell what's an enemy shot or an explosion particle. Also the flicker can get bad too. And since when you're good at the game, Defender gets fun when things get hectic (free space anyone? ).. it makes somewhat of a difference.

 

Too bad though the control scheme of Defender doesn't translate well to home ports. It makes it harder to do things like fly backwards or do ultra quick reversals.. all essential advanced arcade techniques to the game.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Major_Havoc

[joeybastard]

5200 Defender is good. I like the CV version about equally, maybe a little more.

 

Since I got MAT for the Gamecube though I pretty much only play Defender on that with my Pelican arcade stick.

[ZylonBane]

8-bit/5200 Defender is adequate at best. It was programmed on an Apple II(!), and as such doesn't take advantage of any of the Atari's special graphics features. No sprites, no hardware scrolling, no DLIs... nuthin'. Even the raw bitmaps aren't particularly arcade-faithful. They didn't even get the font right!

 

Dropzone is an infinitely superior effort in all regards.

[Lord Helmet]

5200 Defender is great! In fact, it's my favorite version of the game since its fairly easy, yet still feels/looks/sounds alot like the arcade game (which is hard as hell).

 

The game sucks with the stock 5200 stick though, because of all of the side button presses. I use the RSI 7800 stick with the Redemption adapter. Loads of fun.

 

Edit:

 

Speaking of Defender...I was watching "Once Upon Atari" the other day. When asked what their favorite game was...most of them said Defender

Edited March 9, 2007 by Lord Helmet

[darthkur]

I love Defender too. I think the 5200 version is one of the best for all of the different systems I have it for. The sounds are pretty much dead on. The only other one I think has a better sound, for the little red gadgets that burst out of a blasted pod anyways, is the TI99/4A one. Like others said it is too easy. I've played it to the point where I just start doing erratic maneuvers and such just to liven it up a bit and ultimately cause more ship loses to make up for how easy it is to get an extra one.

The Colecovision version is WAY too easy to the point it gets quite boring. The INTV one has really sloppy controls. Makes it a challenge. The TI, C64 and Apple ][ versions are pretty good as well. Everyone should at least give those a go and see if you like them.

[Paranoid]

I personally wasn't a fan of the arcade game. It was a ruthless quarter eater, and possibly the first example of "too much shit going on all over the place" gameplay. Add some frustratingly complex control scheme, and I just never understood the allure, even in the arcade, even back in the day. It was just too much for me.

 

I liked the 2600 version, because well, it was easy and had the BASIC concept of the game down. I played the hell out of it. It didn't last long, because it was way too easy, and in a short time I ruled at it.

 

The 5200 version never grabbed me the same, although I was certainly impressed with the improved graphics, which at the time, like Pac Man, were the best available on a major home console.

 

I've never seen the CV version. I guess I'll check it out in emulation. My CV emulation sounds horrible, though, and skips frames.

[Paranoid]

Yup. The Colecovision version is far better. The 5200 has more detailed graphics, I think, yet they still manage to be less faithful.

 

Didn't the CV version come out way after the 5200 version?

[NE146]

I personally wasn't a fan of the arcade game. It was a ruthless quarter eater, and possibly the first example of "too much shit going on all over the place" gameplay. Add some frustratingly complex control scheme, and I just never understood the allure, even in the arcade, even back in the day. It was just too much for me.

 

I guess you just need to be 3l33t

 

I got relatively good at Defender in the arcades.. I mean, it was a struggle to GET good, but once I hit my first 10,000 (and my first extra man) it just awesome from there. There's a pretty good feeling of power you get when you mastered the arcade controls and zipping around, slamming the reverse button to do a backwards strafe and then zooming through the shots to snag a falling human, let's just say it felt great to be in that zone. But yeah you needed to spend a lot of quarters to get there

 

By the way when I say 'relatively good'.. I mean I could score maybe in the 70k range on average which really isn't all that great, but it was good enough for me. I think my high was in the upper 100's. However, there were players that could score that in their sleep. When you consider the high scores for the game are in the 10's of millions, obviously the game is very masterable and lots of people did just that

[Goochman]

The thing that made Defender great in the arcade was your parents couldnt play it - Space Invaders and such they could talk 'poop' on how arcade games arent that great - I didnt know anyone over 18 that could play that game(atleast for a long time ). I was 'ok' - 50K was prob my best, but I sure looked like I could kick some Alien butt

[Zonie]

The thing that made Defender great in the arcade was your parents couldnt play it - Space Invaders and such they could talk 'poop' on how arcade games arent that great - I didnt know anyone over 18 that could play that game(atleast for a long time ). I was 'ok' - 50K was prob my best, but I sure looked like I could kick some Alien butt

"poop" Umm... OK.

 

Defender Rocks. I mastered it in the arcade at age 14, and loved the 2600 version even though it was too easy. A properly made defender controller went a long way to make that game even better at home.

[+Cafeman]

Man, Defender was so so awesome in the arcades, so much that it was supremely awesome to even be able to play the compromised 2600 version. When I first played the 5200 / A8 version, I was astounded. I think Steve Baker did a fantastic job on it, although I'm sure somebody could probably do a more faithful and more challenging version if they tried.

 

Here is my years-old "review" for it (perhaps a bit too optimistic, but man I did enjoy 5200 Defender back then), complete with comments from the programmer of the 5200 version.

 

http://cafeman.www9.50megs.com/atari/5200defender.html

[phuzaxeman]

give justice where it's due....5200 version defender is killer. sounds, graphics, and controls pay homage to the arcade. all you 5200 haters of this version need to leave. i wish the ship was smaller though.

[shadow460]

Well, I've hit 30K on most of the versions I've played, and it just doesnt appeal to me. What I do think of, though, is the 5200 version's sound effects. While not as faithful as I'd like, they are very good.

I think after reading this thread that the only way I'll ever enjoy the game is if I do play it in the arcade again with the correct controls.

 

Back then, the arcade game I Was best at was probably Galaga or Ms Pac-Man, and later I'd become very proficient with Pole Position II. All the other arcades I'm crazy good at are post crash titles like Daytona USA.

[Paranoid]

I'm thinking I had a few games that got into the 24-30k range in the arcade, too. I was better at Stargate, as I recall.

 

I've got MAME, and it still has too many damn buttons with an X-Arcade. What... left/right, smart bomb, fire and hyperspace... right? 5 buttons plus a joystick for up/down.

 

Probably the first game that they really started studying the high-scorers for possible military assignments based on their abilities.

 

I'm not a 5200 hater. I'm a 5200 fan boy. The 5200 version isn't as good as the Coleco version... I could tell after 30 seconds in an emulator. The 5200 version, like you point out... the graphics are a little more authentic (not EXACTLY though...), but things are all wonky.

 

THE CV version has a more correct aspect ration, but the colors are more flat and less vibrant, less true to the arcade graphics in that sense. Generally I prefer the 5200 and more vibrant graphics (Donkey Kong 8 bit, for example) to the flatter colors of the CV. In this case, though, the advantage seems to go to the CV.

 

I'm thinking around the Defender era... maybe a bit after, is when I got into Xevious big time. Xevious is my era-defining game.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Paranoid

[NE146]

I'm thinking I had a few games that got into the 24-30k range in the arcade, too. I was better at Stargate, as I recall.

 

Heck, STARGATE is the one with all the buttons. It added the inviso button!

 

I've got MAME, and it still has too many damn buttons with an X-Arcade. What... left/right, smart bomb, fire and hyperspace... right? 5 buttons plus a joystick for up/down.

 

Well you really only need to use 3 for the most of the game. Thrust & Fire on the right (just like in Asteroids type games), and the reverse button.

 

Left Hand

-Up/Down Joystick

-thumb controlled Reverse Button

 

Right Hand

-Thrust

-Fire

 

 

Then of course you got the smart bomb which you just slap with your right thumb when needed. The hyperspace in the center is almost never used unless you panic.

 

You need the layout of the original.. the x-arcade just aint going to cut it. (believe me I've tried)