what happenned to the redemption?

[mimo]

any news on the possibility of a new release of the redemption?

[doctorclu]

You know, I think the best "redemption" would be a 5200 controller rebuild.

 

For starters, as a 800 user, I thought it insipid to spend lots of money, just to have essentially a weak 800 or a 400 at best. And even then you still have no floppy, IDE drives, and most the 5200 games are ported to the 800.

 

What makes the 5200 different? Why have I liked playing with a 5200? The controller? And the 2600 module is interesting. The 5200 has the audio/video in, so technically you could make all sorts of "adaptors" if you wanted. So to me, added lines on the cart port and the controller itself make the 5200 special. And the sexy black case.

 

So why not, since you are redesigning the redemption anyway, and someone joked about using a 5200 controller shell... just make a way to redesign the 5200 controller?

 

I'm going to start a poll here to aid in this discussion... I think the redemption 5200 module should allow the 5200 controller to work as is, OR have a joystick port on the side where you can plug in a 2600/7800 (Sega) controller. So it could work as a stand alone controller or be a bypass.

 

By rebuilding the controller with a motherboard swap you wouldn't need to sacrifice ANY cartridge shells.

 

Let me start that poll.... (Which fire button do you use)

[SRGilbert]

I think the redemption 5200 module should allow the 5200 controller to work as is, OR have a joystick port on the side where you can plug in a 2600/7800 (Sega) controller. So it could work as a stand alone controller or be a bypass.

I don't have one, but didn't the Redemption already do exactly that?

 

I'm not sure I understand, but redesigning the controller would be a MAJOR undertaking, and even then, you could never come up with one that would please everybody.

[Paranoid]

Nah... That isn't what DoctorClu is talking about...

 

Oh... and thanks for getting me involved in ANOTHER thread, SRG.

 

Anyhow... yeah, I see what DoctorClu is talking about. You take a regular 5200 joystick, and leave it mechnically unchanged - BUT, it now has a 9 pin port in the side so that you can plug a CX-2600 style joystick into it. You've got a working 5200 joystick analong stick, but it has a passthru to use a digital stick... and because the 5200 stick HAS the keypad, you've got it all in one nice little package that looks basically "stock".

 

It would be UBER cool.

 

But, my guess is that it is practically impossible to CONVERT a classic 5200 stick into this design. We can infer from Al's statements above that the Redemption doesn't even have a PCB that matches a 5200 PCB footprint, and it requires internal modification of the 5200 cartridge case to get it to fit (I bet he has to remove pegs and other mechanical features of the shell to get it to fit). I'm guessing it is a bigger PCB. If you've opened up a 5200 stick, you know that there isn't much room for anything else in there, let alone a PCB that is bigger than a 5200 PCB.

 

What you would need is for someone to design and manufacturer a whole NEW 5200 look-alike/work-alike that also has a 9 pin pass through. And that seems beyond the "garage engineering" that takes place in the Atari community. Chad or Steve or Al are not going to be able to design, manufacturer and distribute an item like this profitiably just for our little culture. It would take a company to get something like this out on the market... which probably means it isn't going to happen, unless Curt Vendle somehow convinces Atari to make something like this - which I would assume is REAL low on his priorities.

 

The current Redemption is an external case, you plug a WORKING 5200 controller into it, to use the keypad, and a working digital stick into it, to use the joystick. It disables the analog stick on the 5200 (I bet simply by not passing through the signals over the passthru - that is, there aren't even wires from the 5200 stick to the Redemption). DoctorClu is talking about basically miniturizing the Redemption and putting it INSIDE the 5200 stick, with the option of using EITHER the analog stick on the 5200 controller OR using a passthru to a digital stick. It is certainly technically possible - but I bet at the very least, you would have to design a whole new BOTTOM half of the 5200 controller to give you the space to fit it in. Then you're talking about having somewhere in the pacific rim do custom molds, which isn't cheap... and... yeah... I just don't see it ever happening.

[Brian R.]

On a stock controller, I think all that would need to be done would be to make the stick self-centering - like a Wico - and to make the fire buttons more responsive, put a switch underneath and/or replace the rubbery fire buttons with solid plastic.

 

Having the function and keypad buttons actually work would also be required.

 

Possible? Practical?

Edited July 23, 2007 by Brian R.

[SRGilbert]

On a stock controller, I think all that would need to be done would be to make the stick self-centering - like a Wico - and to make the fire buttons more responsive, put a switch underneath and/or replace the rubbery fire buttons with solid plastic.

 

Having the function and keypad buttons actually work would also be required.

 

Possible? Practical?

I've read where someone had replaced the flex circuit fire buttons with microswitches. Sounds great, but I can't find any documentation on how to go about it.

[JB]

On a stock controller, I think all that would need to be done would be to make the stick self-centering - like a Wico - and to make the fire buttons more responsive, put a switch underneath and/or replace the rubbery fire buttons with solid plastic.

 

Having the function and keypad buttons actually work would also be required.

 

Possible? Practical?

In the design as-is, I don;'t think there's room for hard plastic caps.

It's one of the few things I'd change about the stick(self-centering never bothered me, really. I habitually guide the stick back by hand).

[Paranoid]

The function and keypad are the fundamental "flaw" in the stock 5200 controller, if you can't open them up and drag them across some cardstock occassionally yourself. This is the problem that the rather expensive Best Electronics gold-dot solution tries to address.

 

There is a link around here where someone made a replacement keypad out of an old style, mechanical pushbutton phone keypad.

 

There have been any number of solutions to try and make the original controller self-centering. The BEST solutions, for MOST games, have always relied on introducing a DIGITAL stick.

 

All of these solutions are going to either require you to DIY, or to buy a pre-assembled replacement stick, and in either case, it is going to be expensive, in a relative sense.

 

The prototype 5200 stick, you can find images of it on Best Electronics site, used the same kind of PCB as an Atari 2600 stick. Same foil hats under the keypad, same solid buttons, same thing for the fire buttons. It is POSSIBLE, but, it doesn't seem practical, to me.

 

What we need is someone like Atari to make a 5200 FB3 that has a pin compatible replacement for the original 5200 stick - a product that enjoys an economy of scale that allows them to sell the whole thing for between $20-$50... then we can rush out and buy a bunch of them, just for the sticks, and stockpile them in our garages, attics and basements.

 

But all of it is probably wishful thinking. A new run on the Redemption adapter is probably the BEST we can hope for.

 

Another thing worth noting is that the 5200 has an analog game port, so PART of the problem, regardless of the stick, is the console ITSELF. I can plug 6 different sticks into 3 different 5200 consoles, and each stick will act completely different on each different console. That is a lot of variable that is outside of the control of the stick itself (no pun intended). Even digital sticks... there is a digital to analog translation going on somewhere in the circuit. I think the Redemption must have some logic to account for this, because so far, it seems to handle this the best of all of the solutions I have tried. But ultimately, the sticks get blamed for something that even the best designed stick REALLY has no *control* over, and that is the variable resistance it will find the console expecting for any input.

Edited July 26, 2007 by Paranoid

[AtariRocks]

Any new news on this stuff?

[BIGHMW]

Wow, the Redmption being discontinued (?!?!)

 

Good thing I got two 2600 adapters and two 7800 adapters back in 2002, after finding this great site thanks to some Atari 5200-related auctions (hosted by AtariAge) on eBay.

[MulberryBill]

I just wanted to bump this thread to check and see if any progress has been made toward a Redemption 2.0 adapter.

 

I recently picked up a 5200 off ebay, with the plans to refurb & mod it. I found this thread while searching the board

for possible 5200 controller replacements. I really hate that the 5200 joysticks aren't self-centering

 

Thanks all.

Edited September 28, 2007 by MulberryBill

[Prodos8]

I just wanted to bump this thread to check and see if any progress has been made toward a Redemption 2.0 adapter.

 

I recently picked up a 5200 off ebay, with the plans to refurb & mod it. I found this thread while searching the board

for possible 5200 controller replacements. I really hate that the 5200 joysticks aren't self-centering

 

Thanks all.

If you can read a simple schematic, solder a few dozen joints and endure a few hours of tedious work you can make one of Lab Rats's nifty Genesis pad adapters. I took that route, though, I did incorporate the use of a Wico y-cable to simplify the overall design. These work extremely well, in fact they're supposed to be better than the original MasterPlay device.

 

Anyway, until the redemtion adapters are brought back, a DIY build may be your only option for a while.

 

Lab Rat's 5200 Genesis adapter

[cyberfluxor]

I just wanted to bump this thread to check and see if any progress has been made toward a Redemption 2.0 adapter.

 

I recently picked up a 5200 off ebay, with the plans to refurb & mod it. I found this thread while searching the board

for possible 5200 controller replacements. I really hate that the 5200 joysticks aren't self-centering

 

Thanks all.

If you can read a simple schematic, solder a few dozen joints and endure a few hours of tedious work you can make one of Lab Rats's nifty Genesis pad adapters. I took that route, though, I did incorporate the use of a Wico y-cable to simplify the overall design. These work extremely well, in fact they're supposed to be better than the original MasterPlay device.

 

Anyway, until the redemtion adapters are brought back, a DIY build may be your only option for a while.

 

Lab Rat's 5200 Genesis adapter

That's some great information there. The PSX controller mod is crazy cool.

[Zonie]

I am out of boards for the Redemption and I'm unlikely to order more until I can get the board redesigned to make it easier and less expensive to assemble. The board is more complex than it needs to be, since it can also be configured for a "PC Joystick" option as well as the 2600/7800 versions. I stopped selling the PC version a while ago, since few people were buying it and it didn't work consistently well depending on the joysticks used. I'd also like to find an alternative enclosure, since the current Redemption uses 5200 carts and those take a fair amount of work to prep. To say nothing of having to sacrifice a 5200 game to make a Redemption.

 

..Al

 

Al,

the serpac cases or even the radio shack cases are totally acceptable in my opinion. I remember back in the late 1970's early 1980's that some Apple ][ controllers came in those type of enclosures (unless you got a set of atari pong paddles!) They look more "custom made" anyway.

[TunnelRunner]

To say nothing of having to sacrifice a 5200 game to make a Redemption.

 

No one will miss a few more Super Breakouts.

You're supposed to use Super Breakouts? I heard Albert was working his way through a pallet of sealed BBSBs that

he found in a warehouse one day.

John,

No, that pallet is holding up some table legs in my garage....