bandit Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Well my memory is still working, Back in late 80's C64 and Apple piracy was running rampant , Even local they were selling disks for $5 each with games. Atari was lowest in sales so he singled out Atari 8-bits to scare commodore and apple users and stopped distribution and publishing Of atari 8 bit software, The ST was not fully included. But we got back when the 3DO came out, even on the BBS's we told people 3DO no good enough and buy playstation and others first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 At least it seems there was the strong intention for an A8 release. Have a look at the list of supported platforms in a German games magazine, testing "Gunship". Normally the information given was quite accurate... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 That is not evidence anything existed. Undoubtably everyone can agree that MPS, at some point announced, Atari Gunship - people saw ads or editorials to that affect. And then at some point that project was canned. It happens, a lot… I have as many canned games in my working life as published ones… sTeVE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machf Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) There's the evidence of what I saw with my own eyes. But you don't want to believe me. Well, I won't believe you either. Edited June 15, 2022 by machf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Sadly, magazines are prone to using the info given to them without trying to check it. I was sent a preview game by Psygnosis to review on the Amiga, at the time it was called Draconus (or similar, it's a while back ), I called them to say there was a title with the same name on the C64 on the market at the same time, so it was changed to Menace. So both magazines in general, take the info and run with it unless someone spots it, in the case of Gunship I suspect it may have been mentioned as an intent to add it to the collection on the Atari (which at least 2 of us with close and very close connections to the game or publisher never saw). I also say again, if Gunship had ever turned up as a proto, beta or even a full game, it would have been pirated a million times over, the pirates took anything and everything and put it on disks, from the most skanky game or demo to the top quality titles. If it was out there then a title such as Gunship would have drawn attention, so people may say it was on their lists but can anyone actually pull up that disk and show it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 10 hours ago, machf said: There's the evidence of what I saw with my own eyes. But you don't want to believe me. Well, I won't believe you either. Sigh - wow, sad attitude… …does not change that whatever you saw was not Gunship.. Of course if you can show me then I can go tell all my colleagues at Microprose they were telling fibs… ? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 On 6/14/2022 at 7:04 PM, darwinmac said: As I recall, when Trip Hawkins was heard of EA, he claimed rampant piracy was why EA didn’t produce more games for the Atari. I know he said that about the ST. I wasn’t aware the quote applied to the 8-bit as well. Bob C Been sooo many years, but didn't E. A kind of drop ST support for a while, then return only to drop support again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: That is not evidence anything existed. Undoubtably everyone can agree that MPS, at some point announced, Atari Gunship - people saw ads or editorials to that affect. And then at some point that project was canned. It happens, a lot… I have as many canned games in my working life as published ones… sTeVE Yep, games get annouced, adverts designed and booked with various platforms listed on them, appear in magazines and yet by the time they appear, the planned conversions abandoned as market changed coding teams unavailable etc. I still say the biggest Billy bullshitter of his time, was Martin Hooley of Imagitec Design. Annoucing Daemonsgate and Phrophecy :The Viking Child as start of a series of Trilogy of games for each, conversions for multiple platforms for each. He always used the Press, annoying megagame X would be out on multiple platforms, used fake screens, had crews do fake demos just for the press. Then there's this.. https://www.gamesthatwerent.com/2020/08/hellraiser/ A heated debate broke out on another forum years ago after a certain poster claimed the advert was proof the game had been started on the Lynx. Erm...no, it doesn't work that way. Edited June 15, 2022 by Lostdragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 9:39 AM, Jetboot Jack said: I find that extremely unlikely - the only Jag Dev we did was in the UK and was porting 68K Tin Head as proof of concept, avoiding the custom chips as much as possible ? Why on earth would we have done "3D modelling" before having code up and running, sounds fish -since all the assets were already created for the PC at various LOD's and those would have been used for POC or test purposes if such work had been undertaken, of which I have no recollection... sTeVE Recovered my research. So it was Drew Northcott https://www.mobygames.com/developer/drew-northcott/credits/developerId,1534/ Whom i had been chatting with, about the Xcom games, trying to find out more on the canned titles. During the conversation I must of asked if he knew of anyone who'd worked on any Jaguar titles during his time at Microprose he said he knew the coder of Jaguar Gunship 2000 and would ask how far along the game got, on my behalf. Reply came back, only as far as early 3D modelling. He didn't state who the individual was or where the coding was being done. I never pressed for more details, as like stated earlier, it was just another of those 'port' titles, games if you wanted them that badly, go and play on another system. But yep, Drew was the line of enquiry used. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I’ll ask him… sTeVE P.S. If you need to know XCOM I’m happy to offer recollections - after all I designed one and produced another - the canned ones were canned for a reason, to be fair post Apocalypse everything is rather dreadful… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, Jetboot Jack said: after all I designed one and produced another SJG? ? 27 minutes ago, Jetboot Jack said: post Apocalypse everything is rather dreadful… Interesting. Do you mean the likes of Interceptor, or the Enemy Unknown series? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: I’ll ask him… sTeVE P.S. If you need to know XCOM I’m happy to offer recollections - after all I designed one and produced another - the canned ones were canned for a reason, to be fair post Apocalypse everything is rather dreadful… You'll probably get more from him as you worked with the Microprose people. Going to take thread even further off topic for a moment, but XCOM wise. Had the original on Amiga and later, Playstation, it only clicked with me on PlayStation as it ran faster and the music was very atmospheric, but once it clicked, I was absolutely hooked. Picked up Terror From The Deep, took up a huge amount of save files on a PlayStation memory card and bugged, saves would often corrupt, but games biggest flaw i found were the Alien Terror missions, maps so large, you could spend hours searching for the last Alien needed to be killed to compete the mission. You were designer on DOS original? Design: Stephen J. Goss Missed out on XCOM Apocalypse, as PC only, picked it up when I picked up. A gaming PC, but had no clue what I was doing with DOSbox, so never got it running. You were one of the Producers on this one? Producer Grant Dean, Stephen J. Goss, James Hawkins, Stuart Whyte Never know with credits on Mobygames. XCOM:Interceptor, had the big box version, couldn't get into it at all, it fell between 2 stools of gameplay and just felt like an absolute cash in. But it was still far better than the dreadful XCOM:Enforcer, that was just vile. Had high hopes for Gollop with: https://www.gamesthatwerent.com/2020/09/dreamland-chronicles-freedom-ridge/ But that sadly wasn't to be either. Edited July 16, 2022 by Lostdragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 The usual problem with the industry, far too much hype and so little delivery.... Too many suits telling the devs what to do with so little understanding of the way it works.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said: The usual problem with the industry, far too much hype and so little delivery.... Too many suits telling the devs what to do with so little understanding of the way it works.. Amen to that statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 9:05 PM, Lostdragon said: You were designer on DOS original? Yes I was On 7/16/2022 at 9:05 PM, Lostdragon said: You were one of the Producers on this one? Yes I was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Not sure that you can be as simplistic as this: 17 hours ago, Lostdragon said: On 7/17/2022 at 1:50 PM, Mclaneinc said: The usual problem with the industry, far too much hype and so little delivery.... Too many suits telling the devs what to do with so little understanding of the way it works.. Amen to that statement. Whilst there is a certain amount of decision making out of the hands of developers, there are really good reasons for that - not all (in fact make that many) game developers are good at game design ? sTeVE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Jetboot Jack said: Not sure that you can be as simplistic as this: Whilst there is a certain amount of decision making out of the hands of developers, there are really good reasons for that - not all (in fact make that many) game developers are good at game design ? sTeVE It was deliberately simplistic as many people will not know the way things work in the dev, planning, costing, production etc etc. I remember having some of the Psygnosis lads over at my flat when I was fixing a machine for them, they complained how there was often interference from people outside the actual dev side. Obviously it's not a great idea for the dev team to control the purse strings but if you let the dev team do what they do best it works best. The recent dispute between the team deving Sonic origins and Sega shows how it can go astray, especially if the publisher announces a release time that the project is then tied to, no matter if it's actually fully ready and as debugged as possible. I have nothing but respect for dev teams, the mad hours they work to hit deadlines for one thing. Also trying to hit unrealistic claims by the publisher. I don't claim to be an expert regarding this but I've been around many a dev over the years, often seeing first hand the fiery chats shall we say, over what is expected versus what they can deliver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) I bow to your expertise and experience, my 33+ years of being a game developer has little merit in the face of such anecdotes ? I am just saying it's more complex, much more complex, than making statements like "The usual problem with the industry" and "Too many suits telling the devs what to do with so little understanding of the way it works" - they are not really useful in decoding the work and effort reality of making a game and bringing it to market, and the variety of skills and abilities needed to do that. I value many skills in others that I lack and am grateful for their support in what I do... sTeVE Edited July 18, 2022 by Jetboot Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Jetboot Jack said: I bow to your expertise and experience, my 33+ years of being a game developer has little merit in the face of such anecdotes ? I am just saying it's more complex, much more complex, than making statements like "The usual problem with the industry" and "Too many suits telling the devs what to do with so little understanding of the way it works" - they are not really useful in decoding the work and effort reality of making a game and bringing it to market, and the variety of skills and abilities needed to do that. I value many skills in others that I lack and am grateful for their support in what I do... sTeVE Oh don't be like that Steve, I am the first one to say just how much I support devs like yourself, I know its much more complex but how much more I don't have a real clue as I only saw so much of the process, it's a job I wanted to get in to and have done a few of tasks involved but the fact I'm NOT in the industry is just testament that I didn't have what it takes despite trying. Sure I knew quite a few blokes on the inside and yes I sometimes am a little loose lipped about who I knew, but it's merely because they were good times, it's in no way to try and 'big' myself up. So, apologies if it seemed I was trying to make it all sound so simple that even a nob head like me could do it, that is very much NOT the case. We all look up to the guys and girls at the coal face, you do an incredible hard job, work long hours and have to have a million and one skills as well as being a totally team player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 No I was not - you misconstrue me. I was trying to be constructive and say that it’s not us and them ? sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 13 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: No I was not - you misconstrue me. Ok, lets leave it at that for the sake of the thread..Was never meant to be a critique of any people in the industry, more a less educated passing remark. Thanks for updating it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yautja Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 So, when are we gonna have the 5200 version? ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Of Gunship or X-Com ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Both, and he wants them 10 mins ago... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 18 hours ago, Yautja said: So, when are we gonna have the 5200 version? ? There will be no 5200 version. I'm working on a version for Big Sexy though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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