How the 42 FB2 games were choosen ?

[oldric]

I wonder how the 42 titles in the FB2 were choosen ? why isn't there Ms Pacman for example ?

[mstulir]

I wonder how the 42 titles in the FB2 were choosen ? why isn't there Ms Pacman for example ?

 

This has been asked and answered a number of times already.

 

Ms. Pac-Man was a LICENSED title. Any game that was a licensed title could not be used without renewing the license for the game. Space Invaders, Berzerk, Dig-Dug, any of the Pac-Man games or any of the hundreds of licensed 2600 games could not be used. Renewing those licenses would have pushed the cost of the unit through the roof.

 

That limited the design team to the games originally designed and published by Atari. The exceptions were the two Activision games which were included via a special arrangement.

[supercat]

Space Invaders, Berzerk, Dig-Dug, any of the Pac-Man games or any of the hundreds of licensed 2600 games could not be used. Renewing those licenses would have pushed the cost of the unit through the roof.

 

Aside from the title, what copyrighted or trademarked properties of Taito exist in Atari's "Space Invaders" cartridge? If they'd released the code under the title "Alien Advance", what basis for complaint would Taito have had?

[mstulir]

Space Invaders, Berzerk, Dig-Dug, any of the Pac-Man games or any of the hundreds of licensed 2600 games could not be used. Renewing those licenses would have pushed the cost of the unit through the roof.

 

Aside from the title, what copyrighted or trademarked properties of Taito exist in Atari's "Space Invaders" cartridge? If they'd released the code under the title "Alien Advance", what basis for complaint would Taito have had?

 

Wow. Just... wow. Do you honestly think that Taito would allow that to happen? Do you honestly think that we could take a game that was Space Invaders, change the name, and then everything would be fine?

 

Let's use Atari's history to show why this could never happen. In the early 80's, Atari had the licenses to publish Pac-Man for home consoles & computers. Meanwhile, Magnavox made a game called K.C. Munchkin, which contained all of the major gameplay mechanics & elements of Pac-Man, but it was not called Pac-Man. Atari sued the pants off of Magnavox (and won) for doing so. Now you are asking if FB2 could have the Space Invaders game with all of the Space Invaders gameplay mechanics and elements but not call it Space Invaders? Doing so would open the door for a lawsuit. Heck, I read last year that Taito sued some clothing company that made a tie with gaming artwork that kind-of looked like Space Invaders. They would certainly want to sue Atari for sales of FB2 units that infringed upon their intellectual property & gameplay mechanics.

Edited July 23, 2007 by mstulir

[Curt Vendel]

Berzerk was being considered as a title to include, but in the end it was the Activision titles that were chosen in a deal coordinated between Atari and Activision.

 

 

Internally we actually looked at taking the source code to 2600 Pole Position and changing the track patterns and car shapes and turning it in 2600 Checkered Flag. Thomas J was commissioned to do the work and the final game looks pretty darned sharp. The question came to whether Namco may in fact have had with Atari changing a game that was original Pole Position and turning it into a different game.

 

This really shouldn't be a problem since Atari Corp did this themselves when they were developing Super Sprint for the Atari 2600 and apparently the licensing deal did not work out between Atari Corp and Atari Games. So Atari simply renamed Super Sprint to Sprintmaster

 

Since the 2600 Checkered Flag game was never used or put into a contract, Thomas is free to release bin it out if he wanted.

 

 

 

Curt

[Gregory DG]

Since the 2600 Checkered Flag game was never used or put into a contract, Thomas is free to release bin it out if he wanted.

I'm certainly not the only one who would like to see that!

[Lord Helmet]

Since the 2600 Checkered Flag game was never used or put into a contract, Thomas is free to release bin it out if he wanted.

I'm certainly not the only one who would like to see that!

 

 

I'd love to give that one a play. Thomas always does great work!

[supercat]

In the early 80's, Atari had the licenses to publish Pac-Man for home consoles & computers. Meanwhile, Magnavox made a game called K.C. Munchkin, which contained all of the major gameplay mechanics & elements of Pac-Man, but it was not called Pac-Man.

 

It also featured a character which looked more like the trademarked Pac Man character than did even Atari's own Pac Man cartridge.

 

Commodore released a number of game cartridges based on arcade games; with the exception of Gorf, none that I am aware of used the original titles. Among the games were Avenger (Space Invaders), Radar Rat Race (Rally X), and Cosmic Cruncher (Pac Man). Within the U.S., only Avenger (Space Invaders clone) used graphics that matched the original game, though I have seen a version of Rally X on disk which used the arcade graphics; I've also seen a cart called Jelly Monsters which was a European release of Pac Man with original graphics.

 

The graphics and gameplay mechanics of Atari 2600 space invaders are less like those of the arcade than are those of Avenger or--for that matter--the advancing-aliens games of other systems. Other than the trademark on the title, I really don't see any proprietary Taito property there.

[panamajoe]

Since the 2600 Checkered Flag game was never used or put into a contract, Thomas is free to release bin it out if he wanted.

I'm certainly not the only one who would like to see that!

 

 

I'd love to give that one a play. Thomas always does great work!

 

would love to see that work!

[kevin242]

Berzerk was being considered as a title to include, but in the end it was the Activision titles that were chosen in a deal coordinated between Atari and Activision.

 

 

Internally we actually looked at taking the source code to 2600 Pole Position and changing the track patterns and car shapes and turning it in 2600 Checkered Flag. Thomas J was commissioned to do the work and the final game looks pretty darned sharp. The question came to whether Namco may in fact have had with Atari changing a game that was original Pole Position and turning it into a different game.

 

This really shouldn't be a problem since Atari Corp did this themselves when they were developing Super Sprint for the Atari 2600 and apparently the licensing deal did not work out between Atari Corp and Atari Games. So Atari simply renamed Super Sprint to Sprintmaster

 

Since the 2600 Checkered Flag game was never used or put into a contract, Thomas is free to release bin it out if he wanted.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

Any specific reasons why Bezerk was not used? It's one of my fav 2600 games and along with K-razy shootout (Atari 800 version not 5200) one of the best home console ports of that game as far as playability and fun. I think it would of been an awesome choice.

 

 

 

Kev

[Curt Vendel]

$$$

 

 

Any specific reasons why Bezerk was not used? It's one of my fav 2600 games and along with K-razy shootout (Atari 800 version not 5200) one of the best home console ports of that game as far as playability and fun. I think it would of been an awesome choice.

 

 

 

Kev

[Flojomojo]

Who owns the rights to Berzerk nowadays, anyway? I haven't seen anything done with it since the home ports on the VCS, 5200, and Vectrex -- and its inelegant sequel, Frenzy.

 

I agree that the VCS version was one of the best arcade translations we got on that machine. It deserves to come back! It's like a cave-painting version of DOOM.

[Curt Vendel]

Gary Stern - Stern Pinball...

 

He's still quite active and personally oversee's the design and manufacturing of the pinballs produced for Stern by Chicago Gaming in Chicago, Ill... I've been to their plant, amazing place, talk about quality cabinet assembly, painting (all multi-layer silkscreening - no cheapo decals on the pins!)

 

 

 

Curt

 

Who owns the rights to Berzerk nowadays, anyway? I haven't seen anything done with it since the home ports on the VCS, 5200, and Vectrex -- and its inelegant sequel, Frenzy.

 

I agree that the VCS version was one of the best arcade translations we got on that machine. It deserves to come back! It's like a cave-painting version of DOOM.

[supercat]

Internally we actually looked at taking the source code to 2600 Pole Position and changing the track patterns and car shapes and turning it in 2600 Checkered Flag.

 

What would have to change in Space Invaders, other than the name, to clear it from infringement on Taito's properties? I would think any patent on the advancing-alien concept would have long since expired or become unenforceable (given the many unlicensed games on other systems) and Atari's graphics bear little relationship to Taito's. Something like Pac Man would have to worry about the trademark and copyright on the central character, as well as (depending upon faithfulness) a copyright on the maze itself. But I don't see any copyrightable aspects of Space Invaders, other than the invader designs which Atari didn't use anyway.

[Flojomojo]

Internally we actually looked at taking the source code to 2600 Pole Position and changing the track patterns and car shapes and turning it in 2600 Checkered Flag.

 

What would have to change in Space Invaders, other than the name, to clear it from infringement on Taito's properties? I would think any patent on the advancing-alien concept would have long since expired or become unenforceable (given the many unlicensed games on other systems) and Atari's graphics bear little relationship to Taito's. Something like Pac Man would have to worry about the trademark and copyright on the central character, as well as (depending upon faithfulness) a copyright on the maze itself. But I don't see any copyrightable aspects of Space Invaders, other than the invader designs which Atari didn't use anyway.

There's only 2K of data in VCS Space Invaders. Atari obtained a license for the home version of this game because of its name recognition, and because of the Disney rules, copyright restrictions last a very long time in the USA. If the original game were modified to the point that it wouldn't look like Taito's game, it would no longer be Space Invaders and we might as well have gotten Demons to Diamonds or another property that Atari owned outright.

 

I agree that Space Invaders was an iconic part of the system, but the fact remains that it was never Atari's property.

[lord_mike]

That limited the design team to the games originally designed and published by Atari. The exceptions were the two Activision games which were included via a special arrangement.

 

This is understandable... too bad the team decided not to put in the numberous Atari sports titles... Basketball, Football, and HomeRun were lousy sports simulations, but they were really fun games to play with a friend. Considering the lack of two player head-to-head titles on the flashback, adding sports titled would have really been great!

 

Thanks,

 

Mike