phuzaxeman Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 i actually like the 5200 version. the music is way cool and i think the analog controller works well. but the video game critic gives it an "F." i think the review is a bit unfair and a complaint from a person that doesn't know how to use the 5200 controllers. http://www.videogamecritic.net/ look up 5200 and gyruss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 (edited) I couldn't get my 5200 controllers to work with this game (or is is vice-versa?). It's totally unplayable for me. I can sympathize with VGC's frustration on this one. His reviews for Spacemaster X-7 and F-Zero... Edited October 6, 2007 by Christophero Sly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 I couldn't get my 5200 controllers to work with this game (or is is vice-versa?). It's totally unplayable for me. I can sympathize with VGC's frustration on this one. His reviews for Spacemaster X-7 and F-Zero... i guess defect controllers would kill the whole thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 (edited) I couldn't get my 5200 controllers to work with this game (or is is vice-versa?). It's totally unplayable for me. I can sympathize with VGC's frustration on this one. His reviews for Spacemaster X-7 and F-Zero... i guess defect controllers would kill the whole thing... The controllers work fine on every other game I have. Edited October 6, 2007 by Christophero Sly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaf5136 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I couldn't get my 5200 controllers to work with this game (or is is vice-versa?). It's totally unplayable for me. I can sympathize with VGC's frustration on this one. His reviews for Spacemaster X-7 and F-Zero... i guess defect controllers would kill the whole thing... Even if you get the Best Electronics gold kit for the controllers, you still can't play at least 50% of the 5200 library. They are OK for Robotron or Space Dungeon though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Never had a problem with the controls on this one myself. Pretty much though the VGC is a 5200 hater. It's one thing to jump on the controller bandwagon, but he totally rips gyruss. He then gives the Colecovision version a "C" ?!?!?!?!?!?! Yes the graphics are slightly better, but not by a noticeable amount, and the CV suffers from an almost identical control problem. At least with the 5200 version you still have feeling in your hands when you put the controller down. I like both versions for their part, but not surprisingly VCG doesn't give the 5200 version a chance. I question if he ever even played it, or heard about it second hand. Many of his 5200 reviews leave you with a similar feeling...did he actually PLAY the game, or just look at a screenshot on the box and flip a coin? Meh..to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Never had a problem with the controls on this one myself. Pretty much though the VGC is a 5200 hater. It's one thing to jump on the controller bandwagon, but he totally rips gyruss. He then gives the Colecovision version a "C" ?!?!?!?!?!?! Yes the graphics are slightly better, but not by a noticeable amount, and the CV suffers from an almost identical control problem. At least with the 5200 version you still have feeling in your hands when you put the controller down.I like both versions for their part, but not surprisingly VCG doesn't give the 5200 version a chance. I question if he ever even played it, or heard about it second hand. Many of his 5200 reviews leave you with a similar feeling...did he actually PLAY the game, or just look at a screenshot on the box and flip a coin? Meh..to each his own. I agree, I personally really like this version myself. And to say the VGC is a 5200 hater is the understatement of the year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well, in all fairness, the 5200 is an easy system to hate. It takes work to see past the oversized case and find the heart of gold inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 I couldn't get my 5200 controllers to work with this game (or is is vice-versa?). It's totally unplayable for me. I can sympathize with VGC's frustration on this one. His reviews for Spacemaster X-7 and F-Zero... i guess defect controllers would kill the whole thing... Even if you get the Best Electronics gold kit for the controllers, you still can't play at least 50% of the 5200 library. They are OK for Robotron or Space Dungeon though. maybe for you. many still have no problem with controllers that work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 and what's the deal with giving dreadnaught factor a poor rating? not even close. this a game that i feel is great too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well... look what they rated Joust. I think their ratings are pretty suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaf5136 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Never had a problem with the controls on this one myself. Pretty much though the VGC is a 5200 hater. It's one thing to jump on the controller bandwagon, but he totally rips gyruss. He then gives the Colecovision version a "C" ?!?!?!?!?!?! Yes the graphics are slightly better, but not by a noticeable amount, and the CV suffers from an almost identical control problem. At least with the 5200 version you still have feeling in your hands when you put the controller down.I like both versions for their part, but not surprisingly VCG doesn't give the 5200 version a chance. I question if he ever even played it, or heard about it second hand. Many of his 5200 reviews leave you with a similar feeling...did he actually PLAY the game, or just look at a screenshot on the box and flip a coin? Meh..to each his own. I don't think he is the best review site there is, but how the hell is this guy a hater when plenty of his reviews are positive. I think he gives plenty of good reviews of 5200 games(eg. Defender,Robotron, Centipede, Junglehunt, Kangaroo, Mario Bros., Moon Patrol, Ms. Pac-Man etc.). Review sites are basically someone's OPINION and nothing more. The fact that many people are discussing this guy's site shows that he is doing a good job. Some people need to stop drinking the 5200 Kool-aid and stop calling people haters just because they criticize the 5200. It is a great system, but I really can't remember any other consoles that you have to take apart regularly to adjust controller positioning on the screen, take apart controllers almost all the time because they are constantly breaking down, whether they are used or not, and finally having most of your library of games UN-PLAYABLE(eg. BBSB, Hero, Gyruss, Frogger, Space Invaders, Gorf etc. etc. etc.). I never heard a peep about controller issues with the NES, Genny, Saturn, 2600, SNES, 7800, PS1, PS2, Atari 400, 800, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 See, and to me...people who can't adjust and use the 5200 controllers are the ones drinking kool-aid. Bounty Bob Strikes back unplayable?!?!?! SPACE INVADERS? You move left to right and fire. If you can't play SI and blame the controllers then you really should put your system on ebay. You are 110% correct though about it being opinion. And in mine, VGC is an ass, and probably doesn't play many of the games he criticizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streps Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 See, and to me...people who can't adjust and use the 5200 controllers are the ones drinking kool-aid. Bounty Bob Strikes back unplayable?!?!?! SPACE INVADERS? You move left to right and fire. If you can't play SI and blame the controllers then you really should put your system on ebay. You are 110% correct though about it being opinion. And in mine, VGC is an ass, and probably doesn't play many of the games he criticizes. BBSB is difficult without a masterplay/redemption adapter But you are right, you just move right or left on space invaders. How can that be unplayable. But the controllers are great with certain games. (space dungeon is one of them). It take a special person to like the 5200. I personally love it. Video GAme Critic. Some of his reviews are on the mark. Some aren't. Again it is one person's opinion. Take them with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 all in all , his reviews are good. i was just pointing out a few games. yes, reviews are all subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 The Colecovision version of Gyruss has very jerky animation compared to the Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 The VGC may get a few absolutely wrong once in a while (5200 Galaxian ), and he may not agree with a given individual 100% of the time, but he isn't a 5200 hater. To prove it, I quickly tested the null (the null being 5200="console x") using chi-square tests for pairwise comparisons of the VGC's 5200 reviews against his reviews for several other consoles with a similar number of reviews in three categories. Here are the results. The critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. % of reviews above average (C+ or better) 5200 (57%) vs. CV (54%) 0.08 5200 (57%) vs. INTV(63%) 0.55 5200 (57%) vs. XEGS(65%) 0.72 5200 (57%) vs. 7800(45%) 1.62 5200 (57%) vs. 02(40%) 2.97 5200 (57%) vs. Jag(54%) 0.11 5200 (57%) vs. N64(69%) 2.09 % F/F- reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(10%) 1.25 5200(17%) vs. IN(7%) 3.17 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(9%) 1.26 5200(17%) vs. 7800(20%) 0 .23 5200(17%) vs. O2(28%) 1.87 5200(17%) vs. Jag(19%) 0.1 5200(17%) vs. N64(8%) 1.964 % A/A+ reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(19%) 0.11 5200(17%) vs. IN(17%) 0.003 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(21%) 0.28 5200(17%) vs. 7800(12%) 0.48 5200(17%) vs. O2(15%) 0.08 5200(17%) vs. Jag(2%) 7.06 5200(17%) vs. N64(7%) 2.99 Again, the critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. In other words, if the values computed for the pairwise comparisons are greater than 3.84, then the null can be rejected. However, with one exception, no test generated a value greater than the critical value. Most values are well below that figure and could be rejected at far lesser significance levels. Only in the 5200 vs. Jag comparison of "% of A/A+ reviews" can the null be rejected, indicating that the 5200 has a significantly higher percentage of games rated "A/A+" than does the Jag. That obviously doesn't reveal an anti-5200 bias. A three-way comparison among the 5200, CV, and INTV in the "% of reviews above average (C+ or better)" category generated a value of 1.2. The critical value at a 5% significance level for this test is 5.99. In only the one test against the Jag can the null be rejected, and, obviously, that test reveals no anti-5200 bias. In all other comparisons the null can not be rejected. Therefore, no statistical bias relative to any of the consoles I examined is apparent. Just looking at the base statistics for VGC's 5200 reviews reveals a remarkable balance. The "% of A/A+" reviews equals the "% of F/F-" reviews and the percentage of reviews above and below average are split almost evenly, they even show a modest pro-5200 bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaf5136 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The VGC may get a few absolutely wrong once in a while (5200 Galaxian ), and he may not agree with a given individual 100% of the time, but he isn't a 5200 hater. To prove it, I quickly tested the null (the null being 5200="console x") using chi-square tests for pairwise comparisons of the VGC's 5200 reviews against his reviews for several other consoles with a similar number of reviews in three categories. Here are the results. The critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. % of reviews above average (C+ or better) 5200 (57%) vs. CV (54%) 0.08 5200 (57%) vs. INTV(63%) 0.55 5200 (57%) vs. XEGS(65%) 0.72 5200 (57%) vs. 7800(45%) 1.62 5200 (57%) vs. 02(40%) 2.97 5200 (57%) vs. Jag(54%) 0.11 5200 (57%) vs. N64(69%) 2.09 % F/F- reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(10%) 1.25 5200(17%) vs. IN(7%) 3.17 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(9%) 1.26 5200(17%) vs. 7800(20%) 0 .23 5200(17%) vs. O2(28%) 1.87 5200(17%) vs. Jag(19%) 0.1 5200(17%) vs. N64(8%) 1.964 % A/A+ reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(19%) 0.11 5200(17%) vs. IN(17%) 0.003 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(21%) 0.28 5200(17%) vs. 7800(12%) 0.48 5200(17%) vs. O2(15%) 0.08 5200(17%) vs. Jag(2%) 7.06 5200(17%) vs. N64(7%) 2.99 Again, the critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. In other words, if the values computed for the pairwise comparisons are greater than 3.84, then the null can be rejected. However, with one exception, no test generated a value greater than the critical value. Most values are well below that figure and could be rejected at far lesser significance levels. Only in the 5200 vs. Jag comparison of "% of A/A+ reviews" can the null be rejected, indicating that the 5200 has a significantly higher percentage of games rated "A/A+" than does the Jag. That obviously doesn't reveal an anti-5200 bias. A three-way comparison among the 5200, CV, and INTV in the "% of reviews above average (C+ or better)" category generated a value of 1.2. The critical value at a 5% significance level for this test is 5.99. In only the one test against the Jag can the null be rejected, and, obviously, that test reveals no anti-5200 bias. In all other comparisons the null can not be rejected. Therefore, no statistical bias relative to any of the consoles I examined is apparent. Just looking at the base statistics for VGC's 5200 reviews reveals a remarkable balance. The "% of A/A+" reviews equals the "% of F/F-" reviews and the percentage of reviews above and below average are split almost evenly, they even show a modest pro-5200 bias. Thanks exactly what I was trying to say!!!LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaf5136 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 See, and to me...people who can't adjust and use the 5200 controllers are the ones drinking kool-aid. Bounty Bob Strikes back unplayable?!?!?! SPACE INVADERS? You move left to right and fire. If you can't play SI and blame the controllers then you really should put your system on ebay. You are 110% correct though about it being opinion. And in mine, VGC is an ass, and probably doesn't play many of the games he criticizes. BBSB is difficult without a masterplay/redemption adapter But you are right, you just move right or left on space invaders. How can that be unplayable. But the controllers are great with certain games. (space dungeon is one of them). It take a special person to like the 5200. I personally love it. Video GAme Critic. Some of his reviews are on the mark. Some aren't. Again it is one person's opinion. Take them with a grain of salt. When playing Space Invaders I usually like to tap the controller to get precise shots. Can't do it with the 5200 dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The VGC may get a few absolutely wrong once in a while (5200 Galaxian ), and he may not agree with a given individual 100% of the time, but he isn't a 5200 hater. To prove it, I quickly tested the null (the null being 5200="console x") using chi-square tests for pairwise comparisons of the VGC's 5200 reviews against his reviews for several other consoles with a similar number of reviews in three categories. Here are the results. The critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. % of reviews above average (C+ or better) 5200 (57%) vs. CV (54%) 0.08 5200 (57%) vs. INTV(63%) 0.55 5200 (57%) vs. XEGS(65%) 0.72 5200 (57%) vs. 7800(45%) 1.62 5200 (57%) vs. 02(40%) 2.97 5200 (57%) vs. Jag(54%) 0.11 5200 (57%) vs. N64(69%) 2.09 % F/F- reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(10%) 1.25 5200(17%) vs. IN(7%) 3.17 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(9%) 1.26 5200(17%) vs. 7800(20%) 0 .23 5200(17%) vs. O2(28%) 1.87 5200(17%) vs. Jag(19%) 0.1 5200(17%) vs. N64(8%) 1.964 % A/A+ reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(19%) 0.11 5200(17%) vs. IN(17%) 0.003 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(21%) 0.28 5200(17%) vs. 7800(12%) 0.48 5200(17%) vs. O2(15%) 0.08 5200(17%) vs. Jag(2%) 7.06 5200(17%) vs. N64(7%) 2.99 Again, the critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. In other words, if the values computed for the pairwise comparisons are greater than 3.84, then the null can be rejected. However, with one exception, no test generated a value greater than the critical value. Most values are well below that figure and could be rejected at far lesser significance levels. Only in the 5200 vs. Jag comparison of "% of A/A+ reviews" can the null be rejected, indicating that the 5200 has a significantly higher percentage of games rated "A/A+" than does the Jag. That obviously doesn't reveal an anti-5200 bias. A three-way comparison among the 5200, CV, and INTV in the "% of reviews above average (C+ or better)" category generated a value of 1.2. The critical value at a 5% significance level for this test is 5.99. In only the one test against the Jag can the null be rejected, and, obviously, that test reveals no anti-5200 bias. In all other comparisons the null can not be rejected. Therefore, no statistical bias relative to any of the consoles I examined is apparent. Just looking at the base statistics for VGC's 5200 reviews reveals a remarkable balance. The "% of A/A+" reviews equals the "% of F/F-" reviews and the percentage of reviews above and below average are split almost evenly, they even show a modest pro-5200 bias. Thanks exactly what I was trying to say!!!LOL Maybe I got carried away. There have been several topics about VGC's reviews lately, and the question of whether he might show some bias against a particular console struck me as an interesting question. Statistically speaking, it was a very simple question to answer, so I decided to run the numbers and see what they revealed. Although I probably could have got away with just reporting the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The VGC may get a few absolutely wrong once in a while (5200 Galaxian ), and he may not agree with a given individual 100% of the time, but he isn't a 5200 hater. To prove it, I quickly tested the null (the null being 5200="console x") using chi-square tests for pairwise comparisons of the VGC's 5200 reviews against his reviews for several other consoles with a similar number of reviews in three categories. Here are the results. The critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. % of reviews above average (C+ or better) 5200 (57%) vs. CV (54%) 0.08 5200 (57%) vs. INTV(63%) 0.55 5200 (57%) vs. XEGS(65%) 0.72 5200 (57%) vs. 7800(45%) 1.62 5200 (57%) vs. 02(40%) 2.97 5200 (57%) vs. Jag(54%) 0.11 5200 (57%) vs. N64(69%) 2.09 % F/F- reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(10%) 1.25 5200(17%) vs. IN(7%) 3.17 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(9%) 1.26 5200(17%) vs. 7800(20%) 0 .23 5200(17%) vs. O2(28%) 1.87 5200(17%) vs. Jag(19%) 0.1 5200(17%) vs. N64(8%) 1.964 % A/A+ reviews 5200(17%) vs. CV(19%) 0.11 5200(17%) vs. IN(17%) 0.003 5200(17%) vs. XEGS(21%) 0.28 5200(17%) vs. 7800(12%) 0.48 5200(17%) vs. O2(15%) 0.08 5200(17%) vs. Jag(2%) 7.06 5200(17%) vs. N64(7%) 2.99 Again, the critical values at a 5% significance level for these pairwise comparisons is 3.84. In other words, if the values computed for the pairwise comparisons are greater than 3.84, then the null can be rejected. However, with one exception, no test generated a value greater than the critical value. Most values are well below that figure and could be rejected at far lesser significance levels. Only in the 5200 vs. Jag comparison of "% of A/A+ reviews" can the null be rejected, indicating that the 5200 has a significantly higher percentage of games rated "A/A+" than does the Jag. That obviously doesn't reveal an anti-5200 bias. A three-way comparison among the 5200, CV, and INTV in the "% of reviews above average (C+ or better)" category generated a value of 1.2. The critical value at a 5% significance level for this test is 5.99. In only the one test against the Jag can the null be rejected, and, obviously, that test reveals no anti-5200 bias. In all other comparisons the null can not be rejected. Therefore, no statistical bias relative to any of the consoles I examined is apparent. Just looking at the base statistics for VGC's 5200 reviews reveals a remarkable balance. The "% of A/A+" reviews equals the "% of F/F-" reviews and the percentage of reviews above and below average are split almost evenly, they even show a modest pro-5200 bias. What'd you do? Sit all day and compile statistics?!?!?! He still seems a hater considering how many of the games he rips. Maybe he just doesnt like classic systems. When playing Space Invaders I usually like to tap the controller to get precise shots. Can't do it with the 5200 dog. That's why they invented practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 (edited) What'd you do? Sit all day and compile statistics?!?!?! I guess you're all going to make fun of me. Actually, it whipped up quick in a spreadsheet. He still seems a hater considering how many of the games he rips. Maybe he just doesnt like classic systems.I ran a few more comparisons between classic and more modern systems (Genesis, SNES, Master System). I can't detect any statistical bias there either, sorry. What would really be interesting is to take a 5200 fanboy's (I mean this in the nicest sense of the word) reviews for the same games and see if any statistically significant difference exits between them and VGC. The biggest problem I have with VGC's reviews is that he uses the A,B,...,F rating system. It might be convenient to use that system because it's something most people intuitively understand. However, it's essentially a 14-level rating system and that's way too many. At most, ten are necessary, but IMO reviewers should buckle down and use a 5 point system. Honestly, how much difference is there between levels 4 (B+) and 5 (B) on a fourteen level scale? Not much. If find that I almost always agree with VGC on the games he gives high marks. It's really only the games he trashes where I will disagree with him. One thing I really like about his reviews is that they're concise and well laid out, with multiple reviews presented on one page. Edited October 8, 2007 by Christophero Sly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari5200 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 as probably one of the biggest fanboys of the 5200, i would be more than happy to review any of the games that I own. I know crap when i see it regardless of being a fanboy or not. I don't own Gyruss though so can't really put in my 2 cents, however I do own Dreadnaught Factor and it's one of the best games i've played in my life period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Like I said my gripe with his 5200 reviews are that it's apparent he either played only once, or never played at all. In half the D or F reviews he blames the controllers. If you're going to give Galaxian a D+, blame the fact it's not as arcade-like as it should be. But jesus tap-dancing Christ...you move left, you move right, you fire. How are the controls bad? His review of Star Wars Arcade is even more silly. The analog controllers are MADE for games like that. And I love his gripe about the Death Star explosion. In one sentence, he says how the CV version fireballs are impressive shattering explosions, then complains about the DS blowing into "six pieces". Ya? So? On the CV version the DS doesn't even blow up, the screen just flashes. Wow. I particularly like his review of Dreadnaught Factor..."Nobody likes this game" What an ass. Astrohase? Definetly not an "A+", but certainly not an "F"...unless...again you played once, sucked at it, and gave up. Again I understand, it's just opinion. But plenty of games on plenty of systems suck initially because of the controllers. Until you practice a little and get better at it. I have a feeling there are several reviewers at VGC, and maybe now and then one of the 5200 (or classic systems') reviews is done by someone predisposed to hate the game(s) before ever pushing the power button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Having played the game myself, I can confirm that the control in Galaxian IS bad. You need your ship to move at a constant, even pace in a shooter like this one, and the analog control makes that impossible. If you use a digital controller, you're still screwed because your ship moves too quickly to line up shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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