How does the 5200 compare to the NES?

[+Cafeman]

Adventure 2 is the best looking game on Atari 5200 and yet its busiest part is when the Dragon and the Goblin is on the same screen which does show flicker.

 

Yep. The biggest graphical weakness of the 5200, IMHO, would be the sprites capabilities - there aren't enough sprites! 4 1-color "players" is extremely limiting, unless the game design allows you to keep the many sprites separated at different vertical positions so you can re-use them. Robotron uses software sprites (the enemies are background graphics, not sprites) so it can pull off tons of on-screen motion, yet you lose a bit of fluidity doing it that way.

[chrisbid]

the game that put the NES on the map was super mario bros. i have no doubt in my mind SMB couldve been done on atari 8-bit/5200, the 7800, the coleco, c64, or the sega master system. like any other atari arcade port, obviously smb wouldnt have looked arcade perfect and it may have not been the megahit the NES version turned out to be, it couldve been done, and the established character of mario in such an expansive world compared to DK and Mario Bros wouldve turned heads.

[phonedork]

the game that put the NES on the map was super mario bros. i have no doubt in my mind SMB couldve been done on atari 8-bit/5200, the 7800, the coleco, c64, or the sega master system. like any other atari arcade port, obviously smb wouldnt have looked arcade perfect and it may have not been the megahit the NES version turned out to be, it couldve been done, and the established character of mario in such an expansive world compared to DK and Mario Bros wouldve turned heads.

 

 

Supermario on 8bit/5200 = Negative

Supermario on 7800 = more possible, but lousy atari 2600 type music! = pretty much a negative

Supermario on coleco = Negative

Supermario C64 = yes... but would propably be a little different in some areas

Sega Master System = HELL YEA! It would propably look alot better.

 

On another note.... here is a guy who beat Supermario 3 in 10 minutes! There is just so much going on in that game!

 

[phuzaxeman]

different generations. that would be like comparing the nes to the sega genesis. or comparing the 5200 to the intellivision in terms of graphics.

 

nes is probably one the greatest system of all times. however, the 5200 has a great place in gaming history too and is gem if you're a gaming fan.

 

all you people that rip the 5200 for its unreliable controllers better tear the nes for its crappy hardware/carts loading inconsistency. how many times do you have to blow that damn cart to get it to work?

 

how about 800xl vs nes?

 

graphics the nes is better than the 5200/8 bit. but if you really look at games and comparisons to the xl/xe, the 8bit has many games the nes could never do the same (alternate reality, mule, eidolon, koronis rift, 7 cities of gold).

 

also, games like donkey kong and karateka are much better on the atari computers than the nes. i think the xl computer has a lot to offer in terms of games that the nes doesn't have. keep in mind, im a huge fan of the nes and even have it emulated on my htc excaliber phone.

 

 

 

Mule and Donkey Kong do look better on the NES! However, I really dont know how to play MULE, so I cant say for the playability. I am pretty sure NES could pull all those games off. But it may have a different graphics engine. But saying that, I doubt Atari 5200 could pull off those wonderful Supermario and Zelda titles! I mean check out that wanna be Zelda title called Irata's Quest. Not even close! Even though its a demo, there just does not appear to be enough sprites to make it NES quality. Plus I think people should not rip on the NES. It was one of the systems that helped define the next generation of games. Imagine the world without Maro and Zelda! Yes I also know that without Atari's Adventure, there would propably not be a Zelda. But the NES still deserves just as much credit as Atari!

 

yes dk looks better graphically on the nes than 8bit/5200 version but nes mixing the scenes up and missing a whole factory scene gives the overall advantage to the atari systems in my book. plus the intermission screens are missing on nes version. graphic wise, the 5200 holds up well and is good. yeah there is mame, but the atari version still is my favorite among home systems....

[GameEngine]

I know that NES does not have shared VRAM architecture. Is it still possible to have paralax scroll like on 8-bit Atari or C64 (Crownland, Flimbo's Quest)? Does it require additional chip in cartridge? Which game would be finest example?

[+Cafeman]

Yes, Donkey Kong *should* have been better - arcade-perfect - on NES. But better programming on the A8 version made that version much superior, except for the graphics which are blockier.

[DracIsBack]

Supermario on 8bit/5200 = Negative

Supermario on 7800 = more possible, but lousy atari 2600 type music! = pretty much a negative

Supermario on coleco = Negative

Supermario C64 = yes... but would propably be a little different in some areas

Sega Master System = HELL YEA! It would propably look alot better.

 

On the 8 bit, there were actually some pretty good ports started. Look in the 8-bit forum for info.

On the 7800, they could always add a POKEY chip, like they did with Commando.

On the Coleco, there's actually a Castlevania port in the works, so one never knows.

C64 has a good clone out there

Edited January 5, 2008 by DracIsBack

[Bryan]

the game that put the NES on the map was super mario bros. i have no doubt in my mind SMB couldve been done on atari 8-bit/5200, the 7800, the coleco, c64, or the sega master system. like any other atari arcade port, obviously smb wouldnt have looked arcade perfect and it may have not been the megahit the NES version turned out to be, it couldve been done, and the established character of mario in such an expansive world compared to DK and Mario Bros wouldve turned heads.

Well, Crownland shows that a Mario-type game was technically possible on the A8/5200, however the NES was built to play that kind of game.

[chrisbid]

the game that put the NES on the map was super mario bros. i have no doubt in my mind SMB couldve been done on atari 8-bit/5200, the 7800, the coleco, c64, or the sega master system. like any other atari arcade port, obviously smb wouldnt have looked arcade perfect and it may have not been the megahit the NES version turned out to be, it couldve been done, and the established character of mario in such an expansive world compared to DK and Mario Bros wouldve turned heads.

 

 

Supermario on 8bit/5200 = Negative

Supermario on 7800 = more possible, but lousy atari 2600 type music! = pretty much a negative

Supermario on coleco = Negative

Supermario C64 = yes... but would propably be a little different in some areas

Sega Master System = HELL YEA! It would propably look alot better.

 

On another note.... here is a guy who beat Supermario 3 in 10 minutes! There is just so much going on in that game!

 

 

i never said it would be arcade/NES perfect, DK for coleco wasn't 'arcade perfect', but it was good enough in the eyes of many people used to 2600 graphics to sell x million units. had nintendo not taken the hardware gamble in the US, any one of those machines couldve scored a port of SMB.

 

if it werent for the ADAM, i still think the colecovision survives the crash and becomes the dominant system of the mid 80s.

[phonedork]

Supermario on 8bit/5200 = Negative

Supermario on 7800 = more possible, but lousy atari 2600 type music! = pretty much a negative

Supermario on coleco = Negative

Supermario C64 = yes... but would propably be a little different in some areas

Sega Master System = HELL YEA! It would propably look alot better.

 

On the 8 bit, there were actually some pretty good ports started. Look in the 8-bit forum for info.

On the 7800, they could always add a POKEY chip, like they did with Commando.

On the Coleco, there's actually a Castlevania port in the works, so one never knows.

C64 has a good clone out there

 

 

Ok... If it was done it would not look as good as the NES. There are simply not enough sprites to make it as good on either the coleco or Atari 5200. But I saw space harrier run on the atari 8 bit, and it does run faster and smother then the SMS! Although the SMS looks better. So i guess the Atari can run those types of graphics smoother although less detailed and blockier. But supermario on the other hand needs more sprites to pull off. NES is better for games like Supermario and Donkey Kong!

[Ethane]

Supermario on 8bit/5200 = Negative

Supermario on 7800 = more possible, but lousy atari 2600 type music! = pretty much a negative

Supermario on coleco = Negative

Supermario C64 = yes... but would propably be a little different in some areas

Sega Master System = HELL YEA! It would propably look alot better.

 

Kung Fu, Ikari Warriors, and Double Dragon (albeit all bad games but technically incredible) were ported to the 2600, what makes you think that something as primitive as SMB couldn't be passably ported to the 5200, or even the Colecovision for that matter?

[JB]

In terms of system RAM, the 5200 has more ... 16K, vs. 2K of memory and 2K of video RAM on the NES.

 

Yes, but they handle video in different ways. To the NES, everything's a character or a sprite and those are all stored in the cartridge. All you need to create is a list of what goes where (this is also a limitation in some ways). While the Atari can generate graphics in a similar way, many things are still done with a regular bit-mapped screen and that takes RAM.

 

 

To add to the discussion... the NES RAM isn't static. It was designed to be expanded.

Cartridges can, and usually DO, have more RAM inside them. Or ROM mapped into the VRAM area.

 

 

 

I know that NES does not have shared VRAM architecture. Is it still possible to have paralax scroll like on 8-bit Atari or C64 (Crownland, Flimbo's Quest)? Does it require additional chip in cartridge? Which game would be finest example?

Parallax is possible, though rarely coded. If I recall Ninja Gaiden 3(select levels only) and Metal Storm are the only examples of it.

Metal Storm is the best example, as it features THREE background layers.

 

I looked into the prospect of coprocessors once, and became FAR more impressed with the NES. About the most advanced you get is a programmable interrupt generator.

[DracIsBack]

One way the 5200 tops the NES: I've never had a problem loading a game on the 5200.

 

Isn't that the truth! Some of my favorite video games of all time are on the NES. Too bad, the NES is also one of the most unreliable consoles in history. I've had top loaders and front loaders and have issues with games loading on both. It's at the point where I'm ready to try a clone.

[phonedork]

One way the 5200 tops the NES: I've never had a problem loading a game on the 5200.

 

Isn't that the truth! Some of my favorite video games of all time are on the NES. Too bad, the NES is also one of the most unreliable consoles in history. I've had top loaders and front loaders and have issues with games loading on both. It's at the point where I'm ready to try a clone.

 

Top loaders work fine with me. as a matter of fact I have one that does both super nes and nes! Most of the time the reason why they are hard to load is because people blow there stinky humid breaths in them and rust the contacts. Use alcohol! But the system was never shut down or stopped because of hardware problems. The Atari 5200 crap joysticks were! The games are way better on NES! The bottom line is NES had the better games, more sprites to use without making games blocky, better control, and more selection. If you cant see that then you are blind! Not to mention making up propably 1% of gamers who think the Atari 5200 is better then the NES. Hell I believe the Atari Flashback 1 which featured both Atari 2600 and 7800 games were emulated by a NES chip. So obviously it can do alot more then ya think. Like I said I like both of them. Its just your are comparing the NES which is a superior system to Atari 5200. Your closest to Supermario would be Pitfall! Which is not much different then the one on the Atari 2600. Now if you would compare it to the Colecovision I would say the Atari 5200 is better.

[phuzaxeman]

One way the 5200 tops the NES: I've never had a problem loading a game on the 5200.

 

Isn't that the truth! Some of my favorite video games of all time are on the NES. Too bad, the NES is also one of the most unreliable consoles in history. I've had top loaders and front loaders and have issues with games loading on both. It's at the point where I'm ready to try a clone.

 

Top loaders work fine with me. as a matter of fact I have one that does both super nes and nes! Most of the time the reason why they are hard to load is because people blow there stinky humid breaths in them and rust the contacts. Use alcohol! But the system was never shut down or stopped because of hardware problems. The Atari 5200 crap joysticks were! The games are way better on NES! The bottom line is NES had the better games, more sprites to use without making games blocky, better control, and more selection. If you cant see that then you are blind! Not to mention making up propably 1% of gamers who think the Atari 5200 is better then the NES. Hell I believe the Atari Flashback 1 which featured both Atari 2600 and 7800 games were emulated by a NES chip. So obviously it can do alot more then ya think. Like I said I like both of them. Its just your are comparing the NES which is a superior system to Atari 5200. Your closest to Supermario would be Pitfall! Which is not much different then the one on the Atari 2600. Now if you would compare it to the Colecovision I would say the Atari 5200 is better.

 

why would anyone try to compare different generations in systems (5200 vs nes)? nes has like over 1000 games + with newer technology. would someone try to compare the genesis to an nes in terms of graphics and sound? genesis would have the nes for lunch....

 

for the record, there are some design flaws in the nes (zif design for wear/tear/dirt and material quality) that make it unreliable.

 

be careful when you say games are "way better" on the nes. 1 man's garbage is another mans treasure. when i have friends over and i show them a boxed working nes vs a boxed working 5200...it's the nes that gets overlooked (everyone had one of those). having a great cond. 5200 on display w/brand new refurbished joysticks always will impress gamers and collectors because of the uniqueness.....

Edited January 7, 2008 by phuzaxeman

[Ethane]

Parallax is possible, though rarely coded. If I recall Ninja Gaiden 3(select levels only) and Metal Storm are the only examples of it.

 

Battletoads, Castlevania 3 (the levels with the fog), Crisis Force, Batman Return of the Joker, Sunman (prototype only), and Swordmaster to name a few with parallax. I think Crisis Force was even able to due a sine wave effect on one of its parallax layers.

[JB]

Fine, free-scrolling parallax. I KNOW that eliminates Crisis Force, and I'm betting the Battletoads levels concerned are the bike levels.

 

Without the free-scroll, it's just an animated background. That's much easier.

 

I admit to not playing the others you named(well, not for long in CV3's case).

 

 

 

Another one I've seen tossed out is the Ninja Gaiden train level. Which isn't. It carefully layers the mountains to avoid overlap between the tile layers, and just scrolls different stripes at different speeds.

The illusion also breaks down when you're in motion, and some of the mountains start scrolling BACKWARDS. It's funny, but not effective.

The same illusion is used on home versions versions of Moon Patrol, but with far more effectiveness due to the game's control of the scroll rate.

The arcade one uses a fully animated background to simulate parallax, like Crisis Force does.

 

 

True parallax effects are rather rare. Fake parallax isn't quite so rare, though it's still uncommon.

[phonedork]

 

why would anyone try to compare different generations in systems (5200 vs nes)? nes has like over 1000 games + with newer technology. would someone try to compare the genesis to an nes in terms of graphics and sound? genesis would have the nes for lunch....

 

for the record, there are some design flaws in the nes (zif design for wear/tear/dirt and material quality) that make it unreliable.

 

be careful when you say games are "way better" on the nes. 1 man's garbage is another mans treasure. when i have friends over and i show them a boxed working nes vs a boxed working 5200...it's the nes that gets overlooked (everyone had one of those). having a great cond. 5200 on display w/brand new refurbished joysticks always will impress gamers and collectors because of the uniqueness.....

 

Exactly my point! The NES should not be compared to the Genesis! The same way Atari 5200 should not be compared to NES! I see what you are saying about one mans garbage is another mans treasure. Atari 5200 games are more unique when you are collecting. But for playing games rather then just collecting... I would rather play NES. Although I am quite fond of Adventure 2!

[ZylonBane]

phonedork, just FYI, ending every one of your sentences with an exclamation point does not make you seem smarter or more persuasive.

 

Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Prodos8]

Who dug this up anyway?

 

There's another thread just like this one, but with the CV as well. I find them rather pointless, but do find humor in some of the comments occasionally.

[DracIsBack]

Exactly my point! The NES should not be compared to the Genesis! The same way Atari 5200 should not be compared to NES!

 

It's a good point. What I took issue with is your assumption that "Anything the 5200 can do, the NES can do better". That's a very narrow view and it seldom holds true in any comparison of any console.

 

While the NES is newer and indeed does many things better, there are other areas where it is not "better".

[phonedork]

phonedork, just FYI, ending every one of your sentences with an exclamation point does not make you seem smarter or more persuasive.

 

Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

 

I am not trying to seem smarter by using exclamation points! LOL! This topic is a dead horse being kicked. I really dont think I can persuade anyone about anything, especially on a Atari forum based on the 5200 console. But I get a kick out of this kind of topic ...."My atari 5200 is the better system" Its kind of like the Jag forum where the Jaguar is better then the PSX. Its like people look to seek approval from others on how there system is better. I am just bringing a realistic ubiased approach to this rather delicate subject! LOL! I like the atari 5200 for certain reasons. But I am not going to say how much better it is then the NES. So if I seem like a dick head..... I am sorry! LOL!

[Bryan]

It's 2008 and all Atari systems are obsolete garbage. The sooner you all come to grips with that, the sooner you can start shipping your collections to me.

[phuzaxeman]

It's 2008 and all Atari systems are obsolete garbage. The sooner you all come to grips with that, the sooner you can start shipping your collections to me.

 

haha....that's the shit :-) lmao

[kroogur]

Actually this topic is called how does the 5200 compare to the NES? not "My Atari 5200 is the better system" as you suggested, and to further the point i started to make in the Jag thread systems like the PSX and Nintendo have benefited from long healthy sales runs of consoles and deep pockets in their marketing/development departments. The 2600 is the only system that Atari had that enjoyed a full healthy life and even that system has not reached it's full potential yet as evidenced by the Hacks and Homebrews for it.

Spend a little time as i have and read the posts that folks put up with samples and demos of their projects pushing the Atari/CV/ etc... to their very limits and you will see some incredible things, yes as far as history is concerned NES and PSX were giants in innovation and gameplay but what about their humble competitors? thats where the fine folks here that tinker and test with these systems are realizing that they could have been on par with NES and PSX but sadly they lacked the support to fully realize their potential.

 

And you are correct on another point this is a forum devoted to Atari so of course we will back our systems to the hilt (David and Goliath) we love our Atari so it is only natural if you or anyone else come in and start boasting about the superiority of the NES ad PSX you will ruffle some feathers and rile folks up...but then i suspect you already knew that