Which Atari 8 bit computer is best overall?

[1982VideoGames]

I'm looking into an Atari 8 bit computer and it seems to be a toss-up between the 800XL, 65XE, or XEGS (I understand they all have 64K).

There seems to be a number of used and brand new systems on vendor websites and ebay.

Does any one system have a big advantage over the others (ie. keyboard feel, display image, connections, cartridge port, etc.)?

Thanks.

[Curt Vendel]

I personally don't care for the XE keyboard's they are just too mushy...

 

The XEGS lacks PBI/ECI expansion, but unless you directly plan to use such devices, its a non-issue.

 

If I had to choose between the 65XE and 800XL, I'd prefer the 800XL for its look, fit, and finish, keyboard is more comfortable in my opinion.

 

If you really want to go for an XE system, then consider a 130XE so you get the full 128K and you can take advantage of several programs that use the additional memory or for having a ramdisk when needed.

 

 

 

Curt

 

I'm looking into an Atari 8 bit computer and it seems to be a toss-up between the 800XL, 65XE, or XEGS (I understand they all have 64K).

There seems to be a number of used and brand new systems on vendor websites and ebay.

Does any one system have a big advantage over the others (ie. keyboard feel, display image, connections, cartridge port, etc.)?

Thanks.

[Urchlay]

I'm looking into an Atari 8 bit computer and it seems to be a toss-up between the 800XL, 65XE, or XEGS (I understand they all have 64K).

 

Of the three, I'd say the 800XL is your best bet. If there's such a thing as a standard Atari 8-bit, the 800XL is it.

 

The XE series are kind of cheaply made, compared to the XLs... though if you had 130XE on your list, that would be worth getting (lots of the newer games/demos need 128K).

 

As far as keyboard feel, the XE keyboards are universally bad, and some of the XL keyboards are OK while others are awful (it's a toss-up, there are something like 5 different XL keyboards, which all look basically the same).

 

If you're just wanting to play cartridge games, you'll be happy with any of the above... maybe the XEGS has a slight edge in that it's got standard (RCA jack) video and audio outputs, no need for an adaptor to hook it up to most modern TVs.

 

If you're into hardware mods, the 800XL is easier to work with than the XE series... you might even consider a 1200XL (plenty of extra room in the case for mods).

 

So the answer is... it depends on what you're planning to do with it.

[Albert]

I also prefer the Atari 800XL. Not fond of the XE keyboards at all, although as has been mentioned, the XL keyboards can be hit or miss. The cartridge port is a bit easier to access on the XL, and the joystick ports easier to deal with. I also like the appearance of the XL better, and am not too fond of the "function" keys on the XE (although they're not really great on the XL either).

 

..Al

[Allas]

Without any doubt and confusion the 130XE is the best Atari 8bit system. The most wanted for gamers and programmers, and hard to find a unit working appropriate. Take care with sales on ebay.

[Fletch]

I also will chime in to get the 800xl. The 130XE is ok (The extra memory can be nice and the video is a crisp), but the build quality is poor. The 800xl's design and cartridge port location is nice, and the keyboard is 10 times as nice the 130xe's.

 

Fletch

[peteym5]

The 64k models of the XL and XE are just about the same computer in terms of the operating system, basic, chipset. Main thing different between XL & XE was PBI/ECI extension and cartridge position. The 130XE extra ram and PBI/ECI come in handy if you plan on using it.

[mimo]

Go for an 800XL and fit a memory upgrade and clearpic or supervideo mod

[Gunstar]

I've been using an 8-bit Atari steadily since 1985, my first being the 130XE(128K), then added an 800XL(64K) and 800(48K), then a 1200XL(64K). After I upgraded the 1200XL memory I got rid of all the others. The 1200XL has one of the best Atari keyobards ever with a comfortable, professional feel, easy access slanted joystick ports, a not inconvenient side cartridge slot, it looks like an elegent and serious computer, and incompatiblilities with the stock OS are highly overated, although I've upgraded to an APE WARP+ OS, I never had a problem with the 1200XL and compatibility with hundreds of programs. The 1200XL does require a cartridge for BASIC, it's not built in(normally). It's the best for upgrading. And works nearly identically to the 800XL and 65XE for all intents and purposes. But definately get an XL series for solid construction and compatibility with the vast majority of programs. If a keyboard isn't important, get the 130XE for the memory and therefore even more compatibility.

 

My 1200XL now has 576K memory, my choice of any of the Atari's best OS's with the APE Warp+ 32-in-1 OS, built in basic, dual POKEY chip stereo sound, PAL ANTIC chip mod, upgraded video output and several other items. It works like new, and is 100% compatible with all 8-bit Atari's, and 98% compatible with all PAL Atari programs too.

 

The 1200XL is the best for combined overall compatiblity, durability, design and expandability, IMHO. I recommend it to the Hacker, programmer and game player alike.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Gunstar

[Albert]

The 64k models of the XL and XE are just about the same computer in terms of the operating system, basic, chipset. Main thing different between XL & XE was PBI/ECI extension and cartridge position. The 130XE extra ram and PBI/ECI come in handy if you plan on using it.

One difference is the version of BASIC included. The XL's come with Rev. B BASIC and the XE's come with Rev. C. Rev. B BASIC has a nasty bug that slowly eats memory each time you load a BASIC program. Not a big deal in casual use, but when you're running a BBS that's running software using a mix of BASIC and assembly, and the computer is on 24 hours a day, it's a killer. I had to order a Rev. C BASIC cartridge from Atari to get around this issue!

 

..Al

[tjlazer]

If I could only have one it would be an upgraded 1200XL! Get one with 256K+, Clearpic/Super Video. 32-in-1 OS and SIO2PC!

[Marius]

One difference is the version of BASIC included. The XL's come with Rev. B BASIC and the XE's come with Rev. C. Rev. B BASIC has a nasty bug that slowly eats memory each time you load a BASIC program. Not a big deal in casual use, but when you're running a BBS that's running software using a mix of BASIC and assembly, and the computer is on 24 hours a day, it's a killer. I had to order a Rev. C BASIC cartridge from Atari to get around this issue!

 

..Al

 

Not completely true.... there are 800XL's with the Rev. C. Basic on board. I have plenty of 800XL's (officially called 800XLF) with the FREDDIE chip. Those came with Rev. C. basic AND have same video output as XE (also seperated chroma signal).

 

And don't forget: it is rather easy to update to Rev. C with a tiny program.

 

And last but not least: ok... REV. B. has problems. But I've read somewhere (not my own experience!) that Rev. C. has it's own problems/incompatibilities so Rev. B. is not THAT bad. But ok that is a discussion on it's own.

(By the way there are much better BBS programs for atari, not using basic!)

 

ON TOPIC:

 

It's said several times. It depends on what you're planning to do. I really L O V E the 800xl. Especially the ones with all the chips on Socket. Those first release XL's has most of the time the best keyboards and it is really easy to fix or upgrade these machines.

 

I agree: the XE keyboard feels bad, but I have a few xe's with better keyboards (original), and those type ok too. I love the looks of the XE too.

 

Here in the Netherlands we don't have the 1200XL. I love that machine, but it is not available here.

 

My #1 choice would be the 800XL with upgraded Memory (I have 576K), OS upgrade (I have MyIDE/Qmeg) and Video upgrade (there are a few very easy things to tweak with great effect!).

 

But I have a shared #1 choice... also very very VERY cool. Why not go for the 600XL? It is REALLY easy to upgrade internal to 64KB, and there is a great 512KB memory upgrade available, that is rather easy to install. Also it is not so hard to get a rather good screen output (just removing one capacitor is making a great difference already!) and all IC's are (always?) on socket on 600XL. Yes... I A D O R E the 600XL. I exchanged an 800XL keyboard with 600XL. I don't like the cheaper-feel 600XL keyboard (some types are like 800XL but it feels cheaper).

 

the 600Xl looks tiny... and really NO ONE would expect so much power in such a small computer. When you upgrade the 600XL to 576KB, adds new OS's, improve the screen output, and exchange keyboard (all these upgrades are easy). And you are in the luck your 600Xl did not turn from 'white' to darkyellow... I'd say: go for the 600XL... with all the power on board it is a real BEAST!!!!!

 

Marius

 

p.s. At this moment I'm using a 256KB 800XL and a 576KB 800XL. the 256KB is using QMEG + Sio2IDE and is located in the living room. Even my wife likes to play sometimes. The 576KB 800XL is hooked up to the blackbox, with 80GB IDE harddisk (with scsi adapter ofcourse). The 576KB upgrade is much more stable. The 256KB seems to have slight timing problems sometime (even with a stable-mod from Bob Puff)... strange.

[walter_J64bit]

I love my 1200XL (256k) but I just have the room for it's big foot , so I went for the XESG that just had a XE-GM1 mod installed 130XE 100% compatible (128k) with out the PBI/ECI expansion but you need that any more thanks to ATARIMAX MyIDE+Flash cats! I got my keyboard on an extension cable so I get use out it.

[mimo]

And don't forget: it is rather easy to update to Rev. C with a tiny program.

How?

 

 

the 600Xl looks tiny... and really NO ONE would expect so much power in such a small computer. When you upgrade the 600XL to 576KB, adds new OS's, improve the screen output, and exchange keyboard (all these upgrades are easy). And you are in the luck your 600Xl did not turn from 'white' to darkyellow... I'd say: go for the 600XL... with all the power on board it is a real BEAST!!!!!

Funny you should say that, I love my 1200XL, but I have just bought a 600XL and I am going to add 32-in-1 OS, 512K memory upgrade and SIO2SD (if there is enough room left) hopefully then my wife will let me keep it set up in the lounge, the 1200XL is so damn big it has to get put away all the time

[1982VideoGames]

WOW! Thanks for the responses. You guys know your tech stuff (i'm just a technical menial for now!).

I'll have to consider which system to buy based on the responses, but I would like to start a setup because there are so many programs/applications, and games in this realm of the Atari world.

Lots to decide and I appreciate the input!

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

to "update" (patch via software) from version B to version C of Atari Basic, search for a small ML-routine called "Revbtoc.*" in Antic, Analog or Compute. Think its already available online somewhere... But, this software patch loads in once and is gone after a coldstart or power-off - so you have to load it in every time you want to use Atari Basic (e.g. copy it on a disk with DOS and name it Autorun.Sys). Ok, this software patch is not the best solution... but it works... unless you get Basic rev. C on a cart or on an eprom...

 

Besides, my PAL Atari 800XL has no Freddie chip, but it still has Basic rev. C, so the Basic revision depends on when your 800XL was made... -Andreas Koch.

[Marius]

How?

 

Charlie Chaplin already answered that. If you can't find it... I'll search for you. I have it somewhere as a type-in basic program. So I could type it in for you, OR I scan the page of that list. If you really want to have basic C inside your computer, you should consider to let someone burn you a BASIC C. eprom. If you are going to upgrade your XL anyway, that is perhaps a good step to do too? I use Basic sometimes, but in my 800xl it still is Rev. B. I don't have any problem with that. (I play NERM or BEMER on it. that is really the most fantastic Basic game ever... in my opinion, it is REALLY cool)

 

Funny you should say that, I love my 1200XL, but I have just bought a 600XL and I am going to add 32-in-1 OS, 512K memory upgrade and SIO2SD (if there is enough room left) hopefully then my wife will let me keep it set up in the lounge, the 1200XL is so damn big it has to get put away all the time

 

We have under the Television-table free room! My 800XL + SIO2IDE (External) + 2 joysticks are located there. when I want to play, I take the 800xl from there... it is already connected, so that is done in 1 sec.

 

My wife knows how much I like the atari's, so this is a nice solution for both of us. And besides... there are a few 1VS1 games she likes to play against me (dynakillers whoooohoooo). And she also LOVES to shoot Cramps in the Barnyard blaster... (You hit cramps, NO BONUS! haha). So that makes the difference here I guess.

 

Btw. if I was you I would consider to build in the Sio2SD to an external case. Once you've build it in a computer you are always forced to use THAT particular atari.

 

Marius

[mimo]

Btw. if I was you I would consider to build in the Sio2SD to an external case. Once you've build it in a computer you are always forced to use THAT particular atari.

 

Marius

 

Yes, I think you are right, as the 600XL will be upgraded internally (memory) I will use the CXL-1064 to build in the SIO2PC

[Albert]

Not completely true.... there are 800XL's with the Rev. C. Basic on board. I have plenty of 800XL's (officially called 800XLF) with the FREDDIE chip. Those came with Rev. C. basic AND have same video output as XE (also seperated chroma signal).

I wasn't aware that some 800XL's came with Rev. C, that's interesting. Is there any way to identify these from external appearances?

 

And don't forget: it is rather easy to update to Rev. C with a tiny program.

Yeah, I forgot about the patch--when did that come out? I don't think that was an option for me "back in the day" when I was running the BBS.

 

And last but not least: ok... REV. B. has problems. But I've read somewhere (not my own experience!) that Rev. C. has it's own problems/incompatibilities so Rev. B. is not THAT bad. But ok that is a discussion on it's own.

(By the way there are much better BBS programs for atari, not using basic!)

I was running Carina II, which at the time I believe was the most powerful and flexible BBS program available for Atari 8-bit computers. The underlying I/O routines were all written in assembly (the Modem Operating Environment, or "MOE"), while the various modules the user interacted with were written in BASIC. This allowed the software to be quite fast but very easy to program for. I believe you just output text as you normally would and it would automatically direct that output to the appropriate serial port (as well as echo it to the screen) if someone was online. I remember at the time the only other viable BBS option was "BBS Express", and I didn't like that software as much.

 

p.s. At this moment I'm using a 256KB 800XL and a 576KB 800XL. the 256KB is using QMEG + Sio2IDE and is located in the living room. Even my wife likes to play sometimes. The 576KB 800XL is hooked up to the blackbox, with 80GB IDE harddisk (with scsi adapter ofcourse). The 576KB upgrade is much more stable. The 256KB seems to have slight timing problems sometime (even with a stable-mod from Bob Puff)... strange.

The 800XL I was running the BBS on was upgraded to 256K, with two 20MB MFM hard drives hanging off a 1MB MIO board and an Adaptec controller card. Those were fun times!

 

..Al

[mimo]

"? PEEK(43234)"

A= 162

B= 96

C= 234

[Gunstar]

I love my 1200XL (256k) but I just have the room for it's big foot , so I went for the XESG that just had a XE-GM1 mod installed 130XE 100% compatible (128k) with out the PBI/ECI expansion but you need that any more thanks to ATARIMAX MyIDE+Flash cats! I got my keyboard on an extension cable so I get use out it.

 

I agree, the ONLY thing that really kept me from upgrading my 1200XL sooner, and getting rid of the 130XE, was the lack of a PBI/ECI port on the 1200XL as well, but as you said, with the advent of the MyIDE+Flash, PBI/ECI isn't important for HD expansion any more, besides, the PBI/ECI HD boxes are rare and expensive, and aren't even IDE compatible, so only older SCSI type drives with less capacity can be used anyway. Without adapters or the new redone Multi I/O board that MetalGuy66 produced, but still far more expensive than a the MyIDE.

[Albert]

"? PEEK(43234)"

A= 162

B= 96

C= 234

Ahhh, good times, I remember doing that on machines.

 

..Al

[LYNXGUY]

IMHO the ATARI 800 computer is best as some XL computers require what is called THE FIXXL to play some games and run some programs.

 

My best friend has a 1200XL and it needed THE FIXXL for certain games and programs and you don't know what games and programs need it until you try to run a program or play a game.

 

My first Atari computer was an Atari 800 and I love it and I never had any problems with it and I also got an Indus GT disk drive and no problems with that either.

 

I did get another Atari 800 from EBAY and I thought I was having problems with it but it turned out to be the Atari 810 disk drive.

[Marius]

IMHO the ATARI 800 computer is best as some XL computers require what is called THE FIXXL to play some games and run some programs.

 

My best friend has a 1200XL and it needed THE FIXXL for certain games and programs and you don't know what games and programs need it until you try to run a program or play a game.

 

My first Atari computer was an Atari 800 and I love it and I never had any problems with it and I also got an Indus GT disk drive and no problems with that either.

 

I did get another Atari 800 from EBAY and I thought I was having problems with it but it turned out to be the Atari 810 disk drive.

 

Let me say at first I am a REAL atari 800 lover. What is it what I love... well... it is the AGE of the machine. In fact (together with the 400) it is the founder of our so beloved atari 8bit machines.

I get a very special feeling when I see the atari 800 running same games as my 800xl or even 130XE!

 

But that is also where my love for the 800 ends. It runs all (or most) original atari titles, and that is cool. But I am a REAL new-software lover. And many many new titles do not run on the 800. And the 800XL does!

 

It is possible to let the 800XL run the older software, but it is not possible to run all the newer titles on 800.

 

And to be honest... I never use translator software to run old 800 software on my XL... I'm very curious who is still using translator.

 

Why am I typing this? Well ... to prevent the Topicstarter for any more confusion. He wants to make a choice... and for a new-coming atari lover... I think the 800 would not be the best choice. Simple because most newer games we discuss here are not for the 800.

 

To have an 800 next to your 800XL... that is GREAT ofcourse. I love the 800!

 

Marius

[Ross PK]

I just love the 800XL, always have, always will.