Which Atari 8 bit computer is best overall?

[doctorclu]

Hmmmm... the basics that have already been said, no perfect 8-bit without modification. However, I think it can be said that all 8-bits can be perfect WITH modification.

 

Let's say you want the basics: 64K of ram, good video, good keyboard. Take a look at this:

 

Atari 400

- Pro, small footprint, 4 joystick ports, unique keyboard

------ Cons- Needs a XL memory upgrade, and a A/V mod (both of which coming available now) and a replacement keyboard.

 

Atari 800 - Pro: Sturdy, great keyboard, 4 joystick ports, 2 cartridge slots, easy to access ram slots, great video.

-----As you can see, the 800 is fairly close from the start. XL upgrades in ram have been created in prototype by Warerat, they work great.

 

(Atari 5200 (Game Console)

I just wanted to throw this in here, since I think in the next 5 years we will see someone hack a 5200 with the capabilties of being what it truly is, an Atari 400 8-bit computer. Give this puppy a modified OS to work with a hacked in keyboard and SIO port, and I love the large black case!)

 

400/800 even though XL memory mods are starting to exist, they both lack the back expansion ports of the later models (no hack for that yet) and when you upgrade to XL memory you loose joystick ports 3 and 4 anyway. But with the 800 switching back is as easy as changing out rom OS carts.

 

These two are now POSSIBLE to upgrade, but really really difficult to get all this. So how about a more practical choice? (Unless you are beige stubborn like me and can wait around for 10 years waiting and trading with engineers like Mr. Atari and Warerat for solutions.)

 

 

The Atari 800 XL

Pros - This computer has the middle of the road everything, and in my opinion, the best average Atari computer. You get 64K of ram, the expansion slots, a medium footprint, the usual ports, a small-ish design, and while the video is not the best, there are many hacks to fix that. Before long you throw in one of many upgrades and you have a 256K computer with switchable Axion, XL, XE and maybe a switch for XL/XE basic. These computers are a hackers delight.

 

Atari 1200

Similar to the 800XL in hacking. The 800XL and 1200 have some models with rom sockets, which is great for the entry level tinkerer. The 1200 has more space for adding hacks and working in, takes up a butt load of room (same is true for the beige 800), but looks cool. Great keyboard, great video, kinda hard to find.

 

Atari 600 XL-

This computer is just cute. You can take it and get the official upgrade to bring it to 64K, and then you have the footprint of the 800XL but many have upgraded these so that you have 64K+ AND get to keep the small footprint. Just sweet! And needs some video work. Many Atarians that are on the move, or in stages of downtime keep one of these or an 800 xl around for occational tinkering due to their small footprint and capability.

 

(Atari 1400/1450XL

HA! Good luck finding some of these...and when you do, save your money, buy a 1200...)

 

Atari 65/800 XE and XEGS

These have the 64K memory off the starting block. Electrically by design superior machines, but by production pieces of crap. However, once you upgrade the keyboard so they don't feel so mushy, resolder some traces, do some cosmetic work on the casing, and fix the video, these are not half bad machines.. so I've been told. The XEGS is wonderful with the detachable keyboard, and keyboard cable extensions are sold. I almost got into the XEGS, except for the mushy keyboard and poor video to display my 80 column Ice-T and Flickerterm is out of the question on these models without modification.

 

Atari 130 XE

128K of ram... I mean, this computer helped show what the 8-bit could do right off the production line. Unfortunately this computer has all the same flaws as the above mentioned XE machines, but again, once you fix those things, you have a hacker's delight. The expansion port on this is also a nice touch.

 

 

Bottom line, while a cool retro looking beige Atari 800 with XE memory is simply every perfect thing you'd want in an Atari 8-bit computer (yes expansion port still missing, but it's just cool), the best to start with, in my opinion, is either the 800XL (mod video and you're there), or the 130 XE (keyboard mod and video and you're there AND you get 128K ram!)

 

(Then again, if you can live with 48K, the Atari 800 worked great for me for years.)

 

Again, ALL 8-bits have the potential to be perfect machines. Just depends how determined YOU are.

[pepax]

Is there a way to play four/eight-player games (Asteroids, M.U.L.E., Super Breakout) on the XL/XE series? I'm curious because I'm becoming intrigued by this "Video Easel" cartridge I have, and want to see if there's a way to have joysticks three and four work on the XL/XE.

 

Here are the games patched or programmed especially for Multijoy.

[NightSprinter]

I understand about the multi-joy games, but I was referring to some of the original titles like Asteroids or Video Easel for how to get four players on the XL/XE games.

[pepax]

I understand about the multi-joy games, but I was referring to some of the original titles like Asteroids or Video Easel for how to get four players on the XL/XE games.

 

I believe there is no other way, why would anyone bother with patching them for Multijoy otherwise?

Video Easel is not patched yet.

Edited December 20, 2007 by pepax

[+wood_jl]

It seems that a common theme in this thread is always WITH MODIFICATION which is best.

 

Yet - over and over - I keep asking the questions "WHERE TO GET ONE MODIFIED?" and "WHAT IS THE COST OF MODIFICATION??"

 

And these questions keep going unanswered. That fact speaks for itself.

 

Getting an Atari-8 modified is not only impractical in 2007/2008, but likely prohibatively expensive.

 

So the only practical answer to this thread (to users, not modders) is "which stock machine offers the most utility."

 

So if you want clear video and don't do a lot of typing (who does on 8-bits nowdays?) then 130XE.

 

If you do more typing and want fuzzy video, an XL.

 

Does that sum it up, or can you tell where to get one modified and how much it costs?

[mimo]

It depends on what mods you want, and what you are prepared to do yourself.

1 year ago I knew nothing about moding Atari's and had not held a soldering iron for over 25 years.

to video mod an 800 XL, cost to do it yourself $10 ish, just need a few resistors and follow the simple instructions here

 

to upgrade the memory, probably the easiest way to mod an 800xl is to buy the 800XL Wizztronics 256K upgrade from Best Electronics for about $11, with the other bits you need it will be less than $30 all in.

 

or ask Atarimax (classics) for his memory upgrade- and he may do the mods for you (at a cost)

 

It is all pretty simple stuff, and within the newbies possibilities if you dare to have a go. As for getting someone to do it, maybe put a want add in the wanted forums, I would do it for a couple of beers, but I think the UK is too far for you

Edited December 27, 2007 by mimo

[Urchlay]

Getting an Atari-8 modified is not only impractical in 2007/2008, but likely prohibatively expensive.

 

Steve, aka Classics... atarimax.com. I'm a satisfied customer. As to the "prohibatively expensive" bit, well, it depends on what you consider expensive. I did my own video mod for maybe $10 worth of parts plus a day of my own labor (would take less time if I were better at soldering), and paid Steve $250 for the rest: 32-in-1 OS, internal MyIDE, 256K RAM, and internal SIO2PC.

 

$250 might be expensive or not, depends on your income. At the time, I could afford it, and now my 1200XL is like a Cadillac

 

Steve's in the US... if you're in Europe, talk to Beetle. His work is famous on this forum...

[atariksi]

Hmmmm... the basics that have already been said, no perfect 8-bit without modification. However, I think it can be said that all 8-bits can be perfect WITH modification.

 

Let's say you want the basics: 64K of ram, good video, good keyboard. Take a look at this:

 

Atari 400

- Pro, small footprint, 4 joystick ports, unique keyboard

------ Cons- Needs a XL memory upgrade, and a A/V mod (both of which coming available now) and a replacement keyboard.

 

Atari 800 - Pro: Sturdy, great keyboard, 4 joystick ports, 2 cartridge slots, easy to access ram slots, great video.

-----As you can see, the 800 is fairly close from the start. XL upgrades in ram have been created in prototype by Warerat, they work great.

 

(Atari 5200 (Game Console)

I just wanted to throw this in here, since I think in the next 5 years we will see someone hack a 5200 with the capabilties of being what it truly is, an Atari 400 8-bit computer. Give this puppy a modified OS to work with a hacked in keyboard and SIO port, and I love the large black case!)

 

400/800 even though XL memory mods are starting to exist, they both lack the back expansion ports of the later models (no hack for that yet) and when you upgrade to XL memory you loose joystick ports 3 and 4 anyway. But with the 800 switching back is as easy as changing out rom OS carts.

 

These two are now POSSIBLE to upgrade, but really really difficult to get all this. So how about a more practical choice? (Unless you are beige stubborn like me and can wait around for 10 years waiting and trading with engineers like Mr. Atari and Warerat for solutions.)

 

 

The Atari 800 XL

Pros - This computer has the middle of the road everything, and in my opinion, the best average Atari computer. You get 64K of ram, the expansion slots, a medium footprint, the usual ports, a small-ish design, and while the video is not the best, there are many hacks to fix that. Before long you throw in one of many upgrades and you have a 256K computer with switchable Axion, XL, XE and maybe a switch for XL/XE basic. These computers are a hackers delight.

 

Atari 1200

Similar to the 800XL in hacking. The 800XL and 1200 have some models with rom sockets, which is great for the entry level tinkerer. The 1200 has more space for adding hacks and working in, takes up a butt load of room (same is true for the beige 800), but looks cool. Great keyboard, great video, kinda hard to find.

 

Atari 600 XL-

This computer is just cute. You can take it and get the official upgrade to bring it to 64K, and then you have the footprint of the 800XL but many have upgraded these so that you have 64K+ AND get to keep the small footprint. Just sweet! And needs some video work. Many Atarians that are on the move, or in stages of downtime keep one of these or an 800 xl around for occational tinkering due to their small footprint and capability.

 

(Atari 1400/1450XL

HA! Good luck finding some of these...and when you do, save your money, buy a 1200...)

 

Atari 65/800 XE and XEGS

These have the 64K memory off the starting block. Electrically by design superior machines, but by production pieces of crap. However, once you upgrade the keyboard so they don't feel so mushy, resolder some traces, do some cosmetic work on the casing, and fix the video, these are not half bad machines.. so I've been told. The XEGS is wonderful with the detachable keyboard, and keyboard cable extensions are sold. I almost got into the XEGS, except for the mushy keyboard and poor video to display my 80 column Ice-T and Flickerterm is out of the question on these models without modification.

 

Atari 130 XE

128K of ram... I mean, this computer helped show what the 8-bit could do right off the production line. Unfortunately this computer has all the same flaws as the above mentioned XE machines, but again, once you fix those things, you have a hacker's delight. The expansion port on this is also a nice touch.

 

 

Bottom line, while a cool retro looking beige Atari 800 with XE memory is simply every perfect thing you'd want in an Atari 8-bit computer (yes expansion port still missing, but it's just cool), the best to start with, in my opinion, is either the 800XL (mod video and you're there), or the 130 XE (keyboard mod and video and you're there AND you get 128K ram!)

 

(Then again, if you can live with 48K, the Atari 800 worked great for me for years.)

 

Again, ALL 8-bits have the potential to be perfect machines. Just depends how determined YOU are.

 

It would be good to mention the various revisions of motherboards of the machines since some of which have socketed chips and some have chips that are soldered on the motherboard. I have an 800XL which died but I was able to fix it easily by swapping chips from a working 600XL (including ROM chip). I have another 800XL motherboard which I believe has a bad RAM chip since it freezes on memory test, but without doing soldering and desoldering, there's no way to fix it. This is a revision D. The revision D had all memory chips soldered on the motherboard. For maintenance into the future, it would be good to have a system where chips are socketed rather than soldered on the motherboard which makes the XE/XEGS series the worst to have.

Edited December 28, 2007 by atariksi

[atariksi]

It seems that a common theme in this thread is always WITH MODIFICATION which is best.

 

Yet - over and over - I keep asking the questions "WHERE TO GET ONE MODIFIED?" and "WHAT IS THE COST OF MODIFICATION??"

 

And these questions keep going unanswered. That fact speaks for itself.

 

Getting an Atari-8 modified is not only impractical in 2007/2008, but likely prohibatively expensive.

 

So the only practical answer to this thread (to users, not modders) is "which stock machine offers the most utility."

 

So if you want clear video and don't do a lot of typing (who does on 8-bits nowdays?) then 130XE.

 

If you do more typing and want fuzzy video, an XL.

 

Does that sum it up, or can you tell where to get one modified and how much it costs?

 

You don't have to get it modified; there are certain things you can add externally via the ports. I have used a PC keyboard with my 800XL and XEGS motherboard for quite some time-- just plugs into the SIO port/joystick port and controlled via a laptop pc. Works good for ASM editor and BASIC sort of stuff. I don't see much difference in video output on XL and XE series. Perhaps, someone can explain what exactly they are talking about that the XL video is fuzzy or give a link.

 

RAM you would need internal modifications to go over 64K, but you can also establish a high speed link through the joystick ports and avoid memory expansion if you are using custom applications.

Edited December 28, 2007 by atariksi

[atariksi]

Hmmmm... the basics that have already been said, no perfect 8-bit without modification. However, I think it can be said that all 8-bits can be perfect WITH modification.

...

The Atari 800 XL

Pros - This computer has the middle of the road everything, and in my opinion, the best average Atari computer. You get 64K of ram, the expansion slots, a medium footprint, the usual ports, a small-ish design, and while the video is not the best, there are many hacks to fix that. Before long you throw in one of many upgrades and you have a 256K computer with switchable Axion, XL, XE and maybe a switch for XL/XE basic. These computers are a hackers delight.

...

 

If anyone wants to hack a 800XL motherboard into 256K or fix one up, here's one I put one up for cheap rather than trash:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=320203877633