Paypal: Need details about "significantly not as described" claim.

[Christophero Sly]

I need to know the details of filing a "significantly not as described claim". Paypal's "help" pages contain no specifics.

 

Has anyone here successfully pursued such a claim?

 

If Paypal rules in my favor, do they refund all of my money including the shipping costs?

 

Do they refund my money ONLY if the money can still be pulled from the seller's account?

 

I know that if Paypal rules in my favor I'll be required to ship the items back to the seller at my expense. However, do I first have to return the merchandise and show proof a delivery BEFORE Paypal will refund my money?

 

Finally, will Paypal charge me any additional fees for filling a "significantly not as described" claim?

 

Thanks.

[+Psionic]

Only time I ever tried to pursue that through PayPal was when a seller shipped me a shirt that was the wrong color. PayPal ruled in the seller's favor and told me that my shirt was not "significantly not as described". PayPal sucks.

[Albert]

Only time I ever tried to pursue that through PayPal was when a seller shipped me a shirt that was the wrong color. PayPal ruled in the seller's favor and told me that my shirt was not "significantly not as described". PayPal sucks.

PayPal's criteria in this case: "Is it a shirt? Yes? As described!" Pricks.

 

..Al

[Headfamily]

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

2. No money will be refunded if they do not have it in their account.

3. You must ship the items back before a claim will be decided. Make sure you use tracking.

[+Psionic]

PayPal's criteria in this case: "Is it a shirt? Yes? As described!" Pricks.

Exactly. If I have a problem, I usually just try to work it out with the seller without the hassle of getting PayPal involved. In that instance, I wasn''t able to do either...I had to keep my shirt. I was gonna neg the seller. but they hadn't left feedback for me yet (big surprise) and had a history of retaliation. I already have 3 or 4 negs (all retaliation from sellers).

[Zwackery]

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

2. No money will be refunded if they do not have it in their account.

3. You must ship the items back before a claim will be decided. Make sure you use tracking.

 

I tried to do this once, and only once a couple of years back, with a seller who sent a big box of Atari stuff (several consoles, lots of carts and controllers), no internal packing at all, and half the stuff looked like it was dug out of the Florida swamp. I sent back all the broken crap, and after all the negotiating, PayPal deemed that I should be refunded a whopping $5. That is the exact moment when I decided that I would make all major payments through PayPal using credit cards, because the CC company will go after these bad sellers in a way that PP won't. Since then, in the two or three of problems I've had, my CC company has been behind me 100% and gotten every single issue resolved.

[Christophero Sly]

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

2. No money will be refunded if they do not have it in their account.

3. You must ship the items back before a claim will be decided. Make sure you use tracking.

It would sure be nice if Paypal would actually tell you these important details somewhere in their "help" pages.

 

$25 to investigate a claim!?! Why would anyone even bother with a claim for auctions <$100. $25 + $15 to ship it back and I'm out $40 with nothing to show for it. It's so unfair, I don't even have the words...

PayPal's criteria in this case: "Is it a shirt? Yes? As described!" Pricks.

Exactly. If I have a problem, I usually just try to work it out with the seller without the hassle of getting PayPal involved. In that instance, I wasn''t able to do either...I had to keep my shirt. I was gonna neg the seller. but they hadn't left feedback for me yet (big surprise) and had a history of retaliation. I already have 3 or 4 negs (all retaliation from sellers).

Sounds like I wouldn't win my claim anyway--"Is it a video game console? Yes? As described!"

 

I'm dealing with a real piece of work at the moment--sent me an item clearly DOA and refuses to make it right. I've tried my very best to work it out with this seller. I've been open and honest, patient, accommodating, reassuring, and beyond reasonable, but this seller won't even meet me half way and, instead, responds to me as if I were a criminal, accusing me from the get-go of trying to rip them off. In fact, the seller refuses to work with me unless and until I leave them positive feedback. Flat out, that's extortion.

 

After 5+ years on ebay, I still have 100% positive feedback on ebay. I'd love to leave this seller the negative they so absolutely deserve, but, of course, my feedback is being held hostage, so I'd just get a negative in return.

 

It's all so very frustrating--the buyer has no ally in Paypal, no friend in eBay, and, in the end, no recourse whatsoever.

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

2. No money will be refunded if they do not have it in their account.

3. You must ship the items back before a claim will be decided. Make sure you use tracking.

 

I tried to do this once, and only once a couple of years back, with a seller who sent a big box of Atari stuff (several consoles, lots of carts and controllers), no internal packing at all, and half the stuff looked like it was dug out of the Florida swamp. I sent back all the broken crap, and after all the negotiating, PayPal deemed that I should be refunded a whopping $5. That is the exact moment when I decided that I would make all major payments through PayPal using credit cards, because the CC company will go after these bad sellers in a way that PP won't. Since then, in the two or three of problems I've had, my CC company has been behind me 100% and gotten every single issue resolved.

What can I expect Paypal to do if I involve my CC company? Has Paypal ever retaliated against you for involving your CC company in a payment dispute? I've heard that Paypal will attempt to recover any money they lose in such instances by taking the money out of your bank account. Edited November 12, 2007 by Christophero Sly

[Headfamily]

They threaten you if you use the credit card company, but I think it is all idle threats But they will try to get it out of a bank account if you have left that information. If you are really worried threaten a mail fraud case or even go forward with mail fraud. IMO

 

 

And you could always wait to the very last second (30 or 45 days on the dot) to do negative feedback. That way they have no recourse. I've done that once.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Headfamily

[Almost Rice]

I'm dealing with a real piece of work at the moment--sent me an item clearly DOA and refuses to make it right. I've tried my very best to work it out with this seller. I've been open and honest, patient, accommodating, reassuring, and beyond reasonable, but this seller won't even meet me half way and, instead, responds to me as if I were a criminal, accusing me from the get-go of trying to rip them off. In fact, the seller refuses to work with me unless and until I leave them positive feedback. Flat out, that's extortion.

 

After 5+ years on ebay, I still have 100% positive feedback on ebay. I'd love to leave this seller the negative they so absolutely deserve, but, of course, my feedback is being held hostage, so I'd just get a negative in return.

 

It's all so very frustrating--the buyer has no ally in Paypal, no friend in eBay, and, in the end, no recourse whatsoever.

 

Who cares if you get a negative for a buyers account. If you only have 1 account, this is the reason I have 2. One to buy and one to sell. The selling account is an older buyer account withn lots of buy positives. Buyer account can be any age and I do no care if negs are left.

 

Also, ONLY use Credit Cards. They are your ally. DO NOT attach a bank account to the paypal account or ebay account. They will take money without permission and really make life a pain.

 

Last, do not use ebay/paypal if you can help it. I stopped selling last year when I calculated I made $100 profit for all of 2005 with thousands in sales. Other venues do a better job at helping you sell. I am using Amazon for my product. For Atari collectables, I would use AA and craigslist. I still use ebay, but only if I can not find it otherwise.

 

Good luck.

[DarthCalvin]

I haven't left feedback on ebay in over a year just because the sellers never leave it first anymore. 8 years ago, the seller left feedback when payment arrived, I left it when the item arrived. Simple. Honest. Somewhere along the line sellers (not all of them but at least the ones I've bought from) will not leave anything until the buyer does. There was a couple times I left feedback and never got anything like they had just forgotten about me. I've thought about bombarding ebay with emails about setting up a feedback system similar to the auctions as in feedback remains hidden until both parties have left feedback or the feedback period ends. Maybe even some simple yes/no questions in addition to open comments. "Did payment/item arrive promptly?" "Was buyer/seller courteous and professional?" so on and so forth. Perhaps even if a buyer/seller left positive feedback for the other party it would expire if no feedback was left for them. Maybe even a tiny little timeframe to cancel a negative feedback after it's left, in the event of a resolution. Just my 2 cents. Anyone feel like petitioning ebay?

[Zwackery]

I tried to do this once, and only once a couple of years back, with a seller who sent a big box of Atari stuff (several consoles, lots of carts and controllers), no internal packing at all, and half the stuff looked like it was dug out of the Florida swamp. I sent back all the broken crap, and after all the negotiating, PayPal deemed that I should be refunded a whopping $5. That is the exact moment when I decided that I would make all major payments through PayPal using credit cards, because the CC company will go after these bad sellers in a way that PP won't. Since then, in the two or three of problems I've had, my CC company has been behind me 100% and gotten every single issue resolved.

What can I expect Paypal to do if I involve my CC company? Has Paypal ever retaliated against you for involving your CC company in a payment dispute? I've heard that Paypal will attempt to recover any money they lose in such instances by taking the money out of your bank account.

Pretty much what headfamily said, basically if they realize that you have involved the CC company, they will rattle some sabers but to little effect. Personally, I've never had PP get nasty with me for anything, although I too have heard stories about PP trying to access bank accounts and so on but have never seen any actual documented cases.

 

Quite frankly, I use the PayPal CC - since you get "points" for stuff you buy, which turn into vouchers that you can use towards PP transactions - which is a MasterCard run by GE financial services, and since GE is running it they have autonomy from PP as a company. On those rare occasions when I've had to get tough with a seller, they've seemed a lot more concerned about charges of credit card fraud than threats from eBay or potential mail fraud allegations.

[+Psionic]

Anyone feel like petitioning ebay?

How about overthrowing eBay and destroying it instead?

[Christophero Sly]

I've poured over the Paypal user agreement and unless it's obscured in legalese, I can't see that Paypal is entitled to recover money from my account should I choose to initiate a chargeback through my CC. In fact, it appears that it's the seller that Paypal would hold liable. I haven't decided whether to go that route yet, but it's nice to know that I have some recourse here.

[midnight magicman]

I haven't left feedback on ebay in over a year just because the sellers never leave it first anymore. 8 years ago, the seller left feedback when payment arrived, I left it when the item arrived. Simple. Honest. Somewhere along the line sellers (not all of them but at least the ones I've bought from) will not leave anything until the buyer does. There was a couple times I left feedback and never got anything like they had just forgotten about me. I've thought about bombarding ebay with emails about setting up a feedback system similar to the auctions as in feedback remains hidden until both parties have left feedback or the feedback period ends. Maybe even some simple yes/no questions in addition to open comments. "Did payment/item arrive promptly?" "Was buyer/seller courteous and professional?" so on and so forth. Perhaps even if a buyer/seller left positive feedback for the other party it would expire if no feedback was left for them. Maybe even a tiny little timeframe to cancel a negative feedback after it's left, in the event of a resolution. Just my 2 cents. Anyone feel like petitioning ebay?

 

y'know,

 

this kinda thing really bothers me.

 

I'm a seller (not Atari stuff. jams, jellies & maple syrup) & I hear this stuff from my customers all the time.

 

As a seller it is your OBLIGATION to leave positive feedback the moment payment is received or cleared!! The buyer has done their part. End of Story.

 

It's sellers like that that give eBay a bad rap & understandably so.

 

Peace

[midnight magicman]

I've poured over the Paypal user agreement and unless it's obscured in legalese, I can't see that Paypal is entitled to recover money from my account should I choose to initiate a chargeback through my CC. In fact, it appears that it's the seller that Paypal would hold liable. I haven't decided whether to go that route yet, but it's nice to know that I have some recourse here.

 

yeah, chargeback will work but it's not totally being honest since you have to claim it was an unauthorized charge.

 

Is this seller being honest? No. But 2 wrongs.....yada, yada, yada

 

I had someone do a chargeback on me once (months after the fact) & I didn't have any $ in my checking account @ the time so I also incurred an overdraft fee (I never leave $ in my paypal acct). So, in effect, I had product stolen from me, payed shipping for them to steal AND got charged $33!!!

 

Buyers aren't the only ones who get ripped off on eBay.

 

Peace

[Christophero Sly]

I've poured over the Paypal user agreement and unless it's obscured in legalese, I can't see that Paypal is entitled to recover money from my account should I choose to initiate a chargeback through my CC. In fact, it appears that it's the seller that Paypal would hold liable. I haven't decided whether to go that route yet, but it's nice to know that I have some recourse here.

 

yeah, chargeback will work but it's not totally being honest since you have to claim it was an unauthorized charge.

 

Is this seller being honest? No. But 2 wrongs.....yada, yada, yada

 

I had someone do a chargeback on me once (months after the fact) & I didn't have any $ in my checking account @ the time so I also incurred an overdraft fee (I never leave $ in my paypal acct). So, in effect, I had product stolen from me, payed shipping for them to steal AND got charged $33!!!

 

Buyers aren't the only ones who get ripped off on eBay.

 

Peace

I checked with my credit card company and I don't have to claim that the charge was unauthorized in order to dispute it, so it's not a case of two wrongs not making a right. Although I think I'd win the dispute, I haven't decided whether or not to take that course of action. It's not really a question of the money, it's a principle at stake here. Like I said, I've made a Herculean effort to work with this seller, but they haven't reciprocated. Instead, they've treated me shamefully, going so far as to attempt to extort positive feedback from me. I'm not inclined to let them off the hook for that behavior, but I haven't sorted out whether my instincts to pursue this are rooted in vindictiveness and, thus, misplaced, or whether I'd genuinely be doing the right thing. Edited November 13, 2007 by Christophero Sly

[+remowilliams]

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

I was wondering about this recently. I've been a ebay user for 9 years now and have never had to file a paypal claim for any reason. I recently had a seller never ship me the item I purchased and I eventually had to file a claim with paypal. I remember reading about the fee and assuming that I would get unfairly charged over it. Paypal decided in my favor (without argument) and I got a full refund. Is there specific criteria for them charging an 'investigative' fee?

[midnight magicman]

I checked with my credit card company and I don't have to claim that the charge was unauthorized in order to dispute it

 

If that's the case, have them proceed with the chargeback

 

they've treated me shamefully, going so far as to attempt to extort positive feedback from me.

 

& don't leave any feedback. As someone stated earlier, a negative feedback has a detrimental effect on a seller's account but not a buyers. As far as I know, a seller can't block a bidder unless they have received @ least 2 negative feedbacks in the last 30 days. I doubt the seller will be dumb enough to leave you negative after the chargeback, but if they do, you can leave them negative which will impact them much moreso than you.

 

Peace

[lemoncurry]

As a seller it is your OBLIGATION to leave positive feedback the moment payment is received or cleared!! The buyer has done their part. End of Story.

 

It's sellers like that that give eBay a bad rap & understandably so.

 

Peace

 

Oh God, let's not start this argument again. Selling jam you might not run into them, but trust me, there are psycho buyers out there, the seller should not feign happiness before they know their buyer is happy. End of story.

Edited November 13, 2007 by lemoncurry

[+Psionic]

Oh God, let's not start this argument again.

If you don't want to start it again, there's a very simple way to do that...just let him express his opinion and don't say anything. :!:

[Christophero Sly]

1.Paypal will charge you a 25 or 35 dollar fee to decide on the case and will take that out of any money you hope to get back.

I was wondering about this recently. I've been a ebay user for 9 years now and have never had to file a paypal claim for any reason. I recently had a seller never ship me the item I purchased and I eventually had to file a claim with paypal. I remember reading about the fee and assuming that I would get unfairly charged over it. Paypal decided in my favor (without argument) and I got a full refund. Is there specific criteria for them charging an 'investigative' fee?

I looked into this too and couldn't find any specific language referring to such a policy in the user agreement. Perhaps is has something to do with whether the item qualifies for Paypal buyer protection. Edited November 13, 2007 by Christophero Sly

[Uzumaki]

So bottom line, no one is obligated to leave any feedback even for a good or bad transaction? I can see this: eBay user since 1997, 100's of auction a month and zero total feedback.

[lemoncurry]

Oh God, let's not start this argument again.

If you don't want to start it again, there's a very simple way to do that...just let him express his opinion and don't say anything. :!:

 

Well, when it gets stated so dogmatically, I have to say something!

 

There are plenty worse things that some sellers do which "give eBay a bad rap" than not being naive about feedback...

 

Myself, I leave it for buyers when they either leave me it first, indicating their happiness, or when they have had the item for a short while without any complaints, from which I can infer that they have none.

 

Sellers have so much more to lose from bad feedback than do buyers that I feel this is simply pragmatic. Saying the seller is OBLIGATED to leave immediate feedback for the obviously expected act of simply paying is just ludicrous. It may even be a troll... So, I'm done, no argument required!

[+Psionic]

Well, when it gets stated so dogmatically, I have to say something!

I know you do...and it's not just you, everyone always has to say something. That's the problem, and that's why arguments get started. And I don't disagree with you entirely on the issue...but we've already been through this before. At a certain point, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and let it go.

[Zwackery]

Well, when it gets stated so dogmatically, I have to say something!

I know you do...and it's not just you, everyone always has to say something. That's the problem, and that's why arguments get started. And I don't disagree with you entirely on the issue...but we've already been through this before. At a certain point, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and let it go.

 

I think you are both wrong, wrong, wrong!