eBay item lost in the mail - advice

[rklastleft]

Hello All,

 

Looking for advice about this situation as I am not a frequent eBay seller and only recently put some items up just for the purpose of clearing out the closet of some doubles and hoping the stuff would find a good home.

 

In this case, the Atari 7800 that I sold on eBay (posted to this forum) was purchased at the Buy It Now, but seems to be lost in the mail. I shipped it on Nov. 28th from LA, CA to Conneticut via Parcel Post. It cost my $19 since the box was Non-Machinable.

 

The buyer claims it hasn't arrived, and I have no reason not to believe him. Seems like a reputable guy based on current feedback. Though, he is rather 'communicative' about the fact it hasn't gotten there yet but from his point of view where you don't know the seller on the other end I can understand why.

 

I have gone as far as sending him the receipt from the post office to prove when it was mailed, etc. I know that this time of year the USPS can be slow, and I have had situation's where packages have taken an entire month to make it to me.

 

At what point do you guys throw in the towel and issue refunds? How long is a respectable amount of time to wait before you declare it is lost in the mail? And what is your refund / shipping policies?

 

I have another lot of stuff that I am waiting until the new year to sell so I would appreciate the advice.

[jimdandy75]

If you have a receipt, then you have the tracking number. Check here;

Track your package here! Enter #, hit go

If it says it was delivered, then he is trying to scam you. If it still isn't delivered tell him to please be patient till after the first of the year. You may also want to take your receipt to the post office and see what the deal is. The only way to protect yourself and not be responsible in these situations is to offer insurance on all your listings, and a disclaimer. Check my listing here; Q*bert's Qubes Listing look at return policy If they refuse the insurance, then they are responsible. I haven't had many problems either way and the USPS has been pretty reliable for me :-)

Hope this helps

[holygrailvideogames.com]

I live pretty much in the middle of the U.S. I have had 3 packages sent Parcel Post take 16 days. Considering that you shipped this across the country I am not surprised that it hasn't arrived. Based on post experience I would suspect that it will get there before Christmas. The post office is really good at getting everything delivered by Christmas when it was sent early enough but it might not get there until next weekend or even Christmas Eve.

 

Did you buy delivery confirmation? If not you are screwed unless the guy is honest and tells you if he gets it. If you are going to sell on eBay always get tracking or delivery confirmation. If a buyer spends $250 or more and pays through PayPal you have to get signature confirmation.

[jimdandy75]

AMEN

[rklastleft]

Thanks for the advice guys. I defineatly have to post something in my listing from now on outlining shipping policies and I defineatly have to add Tracking & Delivery Confirmation mandatory. This is actually the only package lost out of the 40+ I shipped in the last 2 months including the ones to international destinations. I actually can't ever remember a package not arriving before.

 

Unfortuneatly, I don't have a tracking number for it as I just went to the post office and shipped it directly from there. Shipping cost was over $19 bucks and the eBay calculator only charged him $11.77 so I was just trying to get it as cheap as possible since I was going to have to already eat $8+ for shipping on only $30 purchase and I know from the buying end I always hate buying something then having to pay more for shipping then the item itself cost.

 

I still have the feeling that it will show up next week, but he is threatening to file a PayPal claim if I don't refund him now.

[lemoncurry]

So you know, even with a disclaimer in your ad disavowing responsibility for uninsured items, if a PayPal user reports he didn't get an item in the condition described in the ad (even if either lost or damaged in the post), he can win a PayPal Buyer Protection claim and PayPal will yank the money for a refund out of your PayPal balance or even a bank account!

 

Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. The disclaimer in your ad may protect you against uninformed buyers, but that's all...

 

See one seller's explanation of why he requires insurance on all items (apparently a screen capture from somewhere):

http://cityofsteel.hazzardhockey.com/mandatory_insurance.jpg

[Phantom]

Thanks for the advice guys. I defineatly have to post something in my listing from now on outlining shipping policies and I defineatly have to add Tracking & Delivery Confirmation mandatory. This is actually the only package lost out of the 40+ I shipped in the last 2 months including the ones to international destinations. I actually can't ever remember a package not arriving before.

 

Unfortuneatly, I don't have a tracking number for it as I just went to the post office and shipped it directly from there. Shipping cost was over $19 bucks and the eBay calculator only charged him $11.77 so I was just trying to get it as cheap as possible since I was going to have to already eat $8+ for shipping on only $30 purchase and I know from the buying end I always hate buying something then having to pay more for shipping then the item itself cost.

 

I still have the feeling that it will show up next week, but he is threatening to file a PayPal claim if I don't refund him now.

 

Delivery Confirmation is like .65 cents, its well worth it.

[Pipster]

Agreed, i always post recorded, saves a lot of hassle. I'd put it down to experience and refund the buyer.

[Albert]

I still have the feeling that it will show up next week, but he is threatening to file a PayPal claim if I don't refund him now.

I really hate how PayPal empowers people to intimidate and potentially screw over the seller. Since it was sent Parcel Post, it could very well just be the slow mail system and I think it's premature to declare the package as "lost". Most especially this time of year! It's unfortunate that you did not get Delivery Confirmation, as that nearly always prevents situations like this. Not much you can really do at this point except hope that the package is delivered shortly and that the buyer is honest. I would not refund him at this point, let him file the PayPal claim as that will take some time to process (even though they WILL take your money right away). Even if he files the claim, if the buyer is honest and the package shows up while the claim is being processed, he can cancel the claim and you'll get your money back.

 

..Al

[jimdandy75]

So you know, even with a disclaimer in your ad disavowing responsibility for uninsured items, if a PayPal user reports he didn't get an item in the condition described in the ad (even if either lost or damaged in the post), he can win a PayPal Buyer Protection claim and PayPal will yank the money for a refund out of your PayPal balance or even a bank account!

 

Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. The disclaimer in your ad may protect you against uninformed buyers, but that's all...

 

See one seller's explanation of why he requires insurance on all items (apparently a screen capture from somewhere):

http://cityofsteel.hazzardhockey.com/mandatory_insurance.jpg

 

If thats true, it's pretty f*cked up!!!! If I offer someone $2 insurance on a $200 package and they blow it off. and the USPS uses his package as a football, he should be responsible. I have never been burned this way, but I would have to fight that claim. Ebay tells you to offer insurance, and clearly state your return policy, if that is done I believe the seller has a good chance of winning a claim if a buyer refuses to purchase insurance. Making insurance mandatory, turns some buyers away, they believe that you are just trying to find a way to screw them out of more money. JMO

[Lord Helmet]

One thing I have learned with Ebay and Paypal is to ALWAYS do delivery confirmation. It is the ONLY way to protect yourself. If you can't prove that you shipped it, then Paypal absolutely will refund every penny to the buyer without question.

[jimdandy75]

If you use paypal shipping I think that delivery confirmation is always added for $0.18, and I agree this is the best way to go. Had a guy recently won an auction for around $150, he never got it after 3 weeks, checked the #, his post office had delivered it to his house. He was upset, but I told him to investigate. So he talked to his P.O. and neighbors and mysteriously the package appeared on his doorstep the next morning. I think one of the neighbor kids ripped it out of his mailbox. Delivery conformation is good, but if you sell a really expensive one, signature conformation can protect both party's even further. This situation was neither of our faults, so who would of ate the loss if the package never showed? I held my end of the deal, the package had arrived at his house, so I really don't know, there is a very thin line in these matters???!!!!

[Albert]

If you use paypal shipping I think that delivery confirmation is always added for $0.18, and I agree this is the best way to go. Had a guy recently won an auction for around $150, he never got it after 3 weeks, checked the #, his post office had delivered it to his house. He was upset, but I told him to investigate. So he talked to his P.O. and neighbors and mysteriously the package appeared on his doorstep the next morning. I think one of the neighbor kids ripped it out of his mailbox. Delivery conformation is good, but if you sell a really expensive one, signature conformation can protect both party's even further. This situation was neither of our faults, so who would of ate the loss if the package never showed? I held my end of the deal, the package had arrived at his house, so I really don't know, there is a very thin line in these matters???!!!!

I've shipped many packages over the years, and I have never had anyone file a PayPal claim against me for any packages shipped domestically. I have had people state that a package hasn't arrived and nearly always when I look up the Delivery Confirmation number, it shows the package as delivered. I then give this information to the buyer and usually don't hear from them again (and if I do, it's often along the lines of, "Oh, someone put the package on a shelf where I didn't see it" or something like that). I wish it were as easy for international shipping.

 

For anything reasonably expensive (say, rare prototyeps) I will not ship with USPS. I'll use FedEx, UPS or DHL, but I simply don't trust the USPS with anything that valuable. It's easier to make an insurance claim with commercial carriers and their tracking is much more informative and reliable.

 

..Al

[lemoncurry]

If thats true, it's pretty f*cked up!!!! If I offer someone $2 insurance on a $200 package and they blow it off. and the USPS uses his package as a football, he should be responsible. I have never been burned this way, but I would have to fight that claim. Ebay tells you to offer insurance, and clearly state your return policy, if that is done I believe the seller has a good chance of winning a claim if a buyer refuses to purchase insurance. Making insurance mandatory, turns some buyers away, they believe that you are just trying to find a way to screw them out of more money. JMO

Yes, it is that. I haven't had it happen, either, but since I wised up I require insurance on any item I am not prepared to eat. As a buyer, I don't like paying for insurance on $10 - $20 items either, and usually a seller who "requires" insurance will let you be an exception if you ask nicely, basically adding an agreement not to claim if it arrives damaged. Then there's the sellers who think that refusing insurance gives them an excuse to pack sloppily...

 

You could fight that hypothetical claim, although you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and you'd lose. PayPal says it's your responsibility to get the item to the buyer in the condition stated in your ad. (I wonder what they'd say if you worded the description "great condition, potentially broken and smashed if you don't buy insurance"?)

 

Is that link I gave working? When I clicked on the one in my post this morning, it gave me a 403 error, but when I click the exact same URL in my favorites it came up fine... I'd just insert it here but its almost 1.5 megabytes...

 

Also: DC if free with PayPal shipping now. And if DC shows an item as delivered, the seller wins a non-delivery dispute. This is why I have my packages delivered to my job and not left on my porch.

[jimdandy75]

Yeah I've shipped about 200 packages with USPS this year, and besides that one scare all arrived safely. And that guy has made even more purchases from me since recovering his package. Now UPS, I had one package delivered to me a couple weeks ago and it was demolished. Granted it didn't have the proper packing material, but the package was severely abused. A 7800 system in the box ended up in 10 pieces what a waste

[rolenta]

Yeah I've shipped about 200 packages with USPS this year, and besides that one scare all arrived safely. And that guy has made even more purchases from me since recovering his package. Now UPS, I had one package delivered to me a couple weeks ago and it was demolished. Granted it didn't have the proper packing material, but the package was severely abused. A 7800 system in the box ended up in 10 pieces what a waste

 

When I offer something on Ebay, I don't require the buyer to pay for insurance or tracking. I'll cover the tracking because it's in my interest to have proof that the item made it to its destination or not. As far as insurance, it depends on the item. If it's something bulky and is worth a lot, I'll cover the insurance. If it's not worth much, I won't pay for insurance. I've never had problems sending stuff out.

 

The same applies when I get book orders. I only charge whatever the postage is and I throw in the tracking. The customer decides whether the books should be shipped via Priority mail or Media mail and I've never had a problem with the hundreds of books that I've sent. On the other hand, I have had problems when I sent out large orders of books via Media Mail. Several years ago an uninsured package to Gameroom magazine was damaged so I had to eat that. Two years ago I learned my lesson so when a package of books that were sent to Good Deal Games was damaged, they were fortunately insured. Last year a case of books that went to Albert never made it and it too was insured (although it took five months before the post office finally paid for it).

 

As someone posted earlier, tracking and insurance is for the benefit of the seller. It's worth getting and paying for it yourself.

Edited December 17, 2007 by rolenta

[Albert]

Yeah I've shipped about 200 packages with USPS this year, and besides that one scare all arrived safely. And that guy has made even more purchases from me since recovering his package. Now UPS, I had one package delivered to me a couple weeks ago and it was demolished. Granted it didn't have the proper packing material, but the package was severely abused. A 7800 system in the box ended up in 10 pieces what a waste

Unfortunately the plastic used for the Atari 7800 case is very brittle and breaks quite easily. I have a few 7800s that have one or more pieces broken off of them. Sorry to see that this one ended up in so many pieces--proper packing certainly would have helped. Did the seller refund your money?

 

..Al

[Phantom]

Yeah I've shipped about 200 packages with USPS this year, and besides that one scare all arrived safely. And that guy has made even more purchases from me since recovering his package. Now UPS, I had one package delivered to me a couple weeks ago and it was demolished. Granted it didn't have the proper packing material, but the package was severely abused. A 7800 system in the box ended up in 10 pieces what a waste

Unfortunately the plastic used for the Atari 7800 case is very brittle and breaks quite easily. I have a few 7800s that have one or more pieces broken off of them. Sorry to see that this one ended up in so many pieces--proper packing certainly would have helped. Did the seller refund your money?

 

..Al

People cant pack for shit!

I cant tell you how many times Ive got electronics of all kinds with NO PADDING in the package!

It is unbelievable how dumb some people are!

I would gladly pay the .50 to buy the dummys a newspaper! Its better than nothing!

[Albert]

People cant pack for shit!

I cant tell you how many times Ive got electronics of all kinds with NO PADDING in the package!

It is unbelievable how dumb some people are!

I would gladly pay the .50 to buy the dummys a newspaper! Its better than nothing!

It seems that many people simply don't care. They know they are doing a bad job at packaging. But they already have your money, and if the buyer doesn't buy insurance than tough luck! They don't understand though that even with insurance, if it's packaged poorly, good luck getting your claim. They also know that you probably won't be buying anything else from them, so why should they care if you're mad? Again, they already have your money and these lazy people don't care about anything else. It sucks that you even need to have a dialog with a seller to ensure that they'll at last make some effort in properly packaging whatever it is you want to buy from them.

 

..Al

[Phantom]

It seems that many people simply don't care.

 

It is as simple as that!

[jimdandy75]

Yeah this guy sent me a replacement unit, but I doubt it works. I'm done with him. Ebay is full of morons that pack for shit. They really should take more care in what they're doing though, I believe that over 60% of my business is repeat customers, and I go out of my way to keep them. Best thing to do is treat every package as if you're mailing to yourself, would you be happy to get it? There are good sellers too, but I don't know how you distinguish, because I'm friggin lost anymore........

[ianoid]

Delivery Confirmation - it's part of my shipping charge, they pay for it. State that as a policy. People have to pay my shipping expenses, even if that includes a few cents for Endicia.com services. If my shipping is too expensive, well too bad. My shipping prices are still reasonable.

 

International packages - I'm very frustrated by the lack of services offered here. Canada actually offers Delivery Confirmation to the US, why can't we offer it to them? And other countries have recorded delivery as an option, which we don't have either.

 

Now I just tell my international buyers (and there are alot considering the dollar is so weak) that there is no confirmation or tracking with Airmail, it's at their risk. The insurance I offer is simply Express Mail (EMS) and I charge $35+ for it. I tell them the package could get lost and that's their risk if they don't use EMS. So far, noone has bit, but I just put that out there. I also have to state, because so many international buyers are just as idiotic as US buyers, that a customs number is not tracking. Although it can be tracked in some systems, it will not serve as proof of anything.

 

This lack of services from the USPS is very frustrating. I'm all for privatization of the mail system. Problem is it would probably be like privatizing cable. You have a choice of cable providers in most parts of the country, as long as it's Comcast. (or Cox, or Time Warner or whatever, but there really isn't a choice!)

[ianoid]

Oh yeah, what to do:

 

Try to get the buyer to wait on it. Almost every package turns up eventually. bets on that 90% of 'lost' packages are reported as such by the recipient and still received. Sometimes it takes months, but stuff turns up. After a couple of months it will more than likely turn up at your doorstep.

 

If they won't wait, try to refund the auction cost without shipping. Or if they protest, refund the full amount. Make sure you tell them they need to pay you if it does arrive. Yes you have to trust that they will be honest.

 

And yes you will eat crap some of the time on eBay. That's simply part of the flavor of doing P2P business on teh interwebs.

[Albert]

Delivery Confirmation - it's part of my shipping charge, they pay for it. State that as a policy. People have to pay my shipping expenses, even if that includes a few cents for Endicia.com services. If my shipping is too expensive, well too bad. My shipping prices are still reasonable.

I use Endicia also and it's great! I just charge the actual shipping, including Delivery Confirmation for all domestic packages. Endicia is a lifesaver and saves me a huge amount of time for both domestic and international packages.

 

International packages - I'm very frustrated by the lack of services offered here. Canada actually offers Delivery Confirmation to the US, why can't we offer it to them? And other countries have recorded delivery as an option, which we don't have either.

Yes, this is very aggravating. I've gotten numerous packages from outside the US that have the green USPS Delivery Confirmation sticker on it!! What the heck! It's a USPS service and people outside the US can take advantage of it, yet when I ship a package to Canada or Germany, I just have to roll the dice and hope the buyer doesn't try to screw me? Totally screwed up.

 

Now I just tell my international buyers (and there are alot considering the dollar is so weak) that there is no confirmation or tracking with Airmail, it's at their risk. The insurance I offer is simply Express Mail (EMS) and I charge $35+ for it. I tell them the package could get lost and that's their risk if they don't use EMS. So far, noone has bit, but I just put that out there. I also have to state, because so many international buyers are just as idiotic as US buyers, that a customs number is not tracking. Although it can be tracked in some systems, it will not serve as proof of anything.

I know other people who will only offer EMS on anything reasonably expensive, and I can't really blame them. It's far too easy for a buyer to claim a package never arrived, and even though customs numbers sometime are tracked, it's not reliable or consistent (and it doesn't work at all for me with the numbers Endicia prints, even if I have them scanned at the post office which I tried for an entire month).

 

..Al

[rklastleft]

Hi All,

 

I would like to thank everyone for the advice. I just went ahead and issued the refund because I don't want to deal with it over the holidays and sent him a message through eBay.

 

I did notice that recently he receive 2 negative feedbacks since he purchased my item, and also I noticed that someone else left him a positive feedback even though in the feedback they stated that 'he claimed the item never arrived'. All at about the same time that I shipped my item.

 

I still believe that he honestly has not recieved it, but I have a feeling that it might be a local delivery problem as the other item not recieved was also a large package.

 

At this point I guess I just hope that the box appears back on my doorstep after the holidays. If it does I will send it to you 'jimdandy75' if it is still intact...

 

Thanks,

Rob