Ebay question - Is this a good idea?

[Red 5]

It seems so simple to me, and everybody wins in the end...

 

In the real world (not Ebay-land) an auction ends when there are no more bids.

Why not apply this to Ebay? Or at least make it an option.

 

Example...

Have a set time for the auction to end. (Just like it is now.)

For the sake of arguement, let's say a 7 day auction that ends on Sunday at 5:00 PM.

 

If there are no bids in the last minute (from 4:59 PM to 5:00 PM) the auction ends and the highest bidder wins. (Just like now)

 

If there IS a bid in the last minute, an extra minute is added to the auction. In other words, if there is a bid at 4:59, the

end time is now pushed forward to 5:01. The adding of minutes would continue until there is a full minute of no bidding.

After a full minute of no additional bids, the auction would end.

The "Going once, twice, gone!" effect would be inserted into Ebay-land!

 

Ebay wins because auctions would end at higher prices, obviously the seller wins and the buyers can no longer complain about snipers.

 

Why wouldn't this work? (Other than the obvious fact that most of us, myself included, love the rush of sniping at the last second and winning.)

 

(However as a seller, bidding wars would be really really fun!)

[Albert]

I've seen this suggested many times in the past and I'm pretty sure there are some auction sites that operate in this fashion, but I have no idea why eBay does not. It *seems* like an obvious win for eBay and sellers alike, especially given how attached eBay is to raking in their fees. I don't know what they are, but eBay mus feel they have good reasons for not going to a system of this nature. Buyers wouldn't like it since it would make it more difficult to get a "steal" (not including low "Buy it Now" prices).

 

People would still complain about those snipping in the "last minute" and that they weren't around to put in a counter bid.

 

..Al

[crunchysuperman]

It would certainly increase the length of many auctions. Therefore, ebay would get even slower due to the greater volume of open auctions, not to mention their increase in cost for hosting (which they would no doubt pass along to everybody). Also, how would you like ebay dynamically increasing your fees based on however long the auction ends up lasting? (as opposed to the original 7 day listing fee)

 

No thanks.

[jetset]

Yep, been there done that as far as suggestions, and it is a fine one. I think sniping sucks, and it benefits either those ebay brokers who have nothing better to do than sit all day in front of the pc and watch, and it also benefits those people savvy enough to use sniping software. Both perfectly "legitimate", (and I'll be the first to admit after losing auctionafterauctionafterauction I started sniping as well) but makes the playingfield unfair for most buyers.

That said...there's WAY too many changes ebay needs to make first. In the interest of not starting a flame war I won't list MY biggeest peeve...

Unfortunately Ebay doesn't listen to their members too often.

[video game addict]

I think with snipers and snipe programs a lot of the work is done away from the computer nowadays. I still snipe manually when I'm near the computer, but a lot of times I'll just add auctions to my snipe list. So even if I was involved in a last minute bid war for some goods, chances are I would not be able to place a 2nd or a 3rd bid anyways. And chances are the bidder who bid 3 days before isn't watching it down to the wire either. They could be, but probably not. (which is a huge reason why people like to snipe in the first place)

 

So I think ebay changing their setup to allow continuation of auctions for 1 minute or 5 minutes or even an hour would probably only be helping those manual snipers anyways. And I think that is probably not as large of a % of we might want to believe. You can get ebay on your cellphones now which could help change things in the future, as it becomes more accessible to bidders at all times, but really I don't see ebay changing it's design any time soon.

 

I've never understood the bidders who don't enter their max bids upfront either. I can understand giving caution to shill bidding, but if you're willing to go $20 don't enter in a bid of $5 and think you'll have a chance to up it later if the bidding gets heated. In my closest Napoleon Dynamite voice I shout, "Idiots!"

[Albert]

It would certainly increase the length of many auctions. Therefore, ebay would get even slower due to the greater volume of open auctions, not to mention their increase in cost for hosting (which they would no doubt pass along to everybody). Also, how would you like ebay dynamically increasing your fees based on however long the auction ends up lasting? (as opposed to the original 7 day listing fee)

 

No thanks.

Well, if the auction is only extended by a minute (or even a few minutes) each time, it's not going to go on too much longer than it already did (I mean, what's another 30 minutes for an auction that already lasts seven days?)

 

..Al

[Red 5]

It would certainly increase the length of many auctions. Therefore, ebay would get even slower due to the greater volume of open auctions, not to mention their increase in cost for hosting (which they would no doubt pass along to everybody). Also, how would you like ebay dynamically increasing your fees based on however long the auction ends up lasting? (as opposed to the original 7 day listing fee)

 

No thanks.

Well, if the auction is only extended by a minute (or even a few minutes) each time, it's not going to go on too much longer than it already did (I mean, what's another 30 minutes for an auction that already lasts seven days?)

 

..Al

 

And even 30 minutes would be extreme. That would mean there were 30 bids after the auctions official end time.

 

In an unlikely and extreme case 120 additional 'last minute' bids would cause and auction to continue for two hours.

 

If this idea were ever implemented I would guess that most auctions would last a mere 5 - 10 minutes after the original end time.

 

I don't necessarily think this should be an across the board change, but it would be a cool option for sellers if they wanted to do something

other than the normal way or buy it now. Just a third option.

[accousticguitar]

Sounds like a good idea. I think I would increase the auction time by 1 hour any time a bid is placed within the last 5 minutes. It might need a cap on it though, like it could only be extended for 5 hours max or something like that.

[Red 5]

Sounds like a good idea. I think I would increase the auction time by 1 hour any time a bid is placed within the last 5 minutes. It might need a cap on it though, like it could only be extended for 5 hours max or something like that.

 

That could make an auction last for a long long time.

 

The one minute rule would just eliminate sniping without adding days to the auction.

People could still put in their highest bid whenever they want, just like now.

 

Therefore there would be blame on anyone but yourself for not winning.

[lemoncurry]

I am quite sure eBay has thought about this, it's not like they don't get the suggestion every 5 minutes.

 

I can think of several possible reasons for not implementing it.

 

One, they like to make sure everyone knows they are not an auctioneer, just a venue. If they kept extending the end time it would appear otherwise.

 

Two, eBay would rather people enter their max bids right away and let their system do proxy bidding for you. Extending end times would run counter to that by encouraging people to wait for the end to bid. Also, when people decide to do just that but forget to do it, they may end up with lower prices after all.

 

Third, their database is distributed between servers in countries worldwide, it would be a nightmare to try to keep all these ever-extending auctions synced up between all those servers.

[Phantom]

Jewelry place called BIDZ i think, uses this way of auctioning things and it wors well but i think they reset to 10 seconds each time there is a new bid. A minute is too long. If youre there bidding, you know how much you want to pay and when to stop but if you wait until 59 secs each time it could go on forever. 15 secs wouldnt be bad either but a minute between each bid when you should watching said items to bid anyhow, should be sufficent. I think that should Atleast be an alternative way of listing an item and the 1st auction site that wanst to REALLY compete with ebay needs to have that kinda auctioning and they would dethrone Ebay IMHO or atleast have a chance to.

 

Heres the thing people dont realize.

EBAY MAKES MORE MONEY IF SOMETHING DOESNT SELL!

If there was this format instituted, there wouldnt be hardly any non selling auctions

BECAUSE... everyone would start their price low KNOWING that IT WOULD GET BID UP TO A NORMAL VALUE!

Why doesnt Ebay want this? MONEY!

They would LOSE all the relists and the fact that you can start an item lower,

HENCE NOT PAY EVEN HIGHER, OUTRAGEOUS INSERT PRICES which ebay would lose.

For Example, who would have a buy it now??? ANYONE?

Hardly would ever be used again if at all!

EBAY would LOSE money that they count on, from many different angles.

RESERVE FEES ALONE WOULD BE NON EXISTENT

AND YOU KNOW THEY MAKE A FORTUNE ON THEM!

HOW about ALL THE PROMOTIONAL EXTRAS

AKA Bold, Highlights, etc that THEY WANT TO SELL YOU?

THERE WOULD REALLY BE NO NEED TO USE THEM NOW WOULD THERE?

 

Bottom line is Ebay has created more ways to steal money from dupes than the Tax Bureau.Having a LEGIT auction process would drop EBAYS bottom line drastically.

It wont happen until SOMEONE ELSE does it and hurts Ebays business. Even then Ebay might be dumb and not change and that will be there downfall. I know everyone thinks Im crazy when i say Ebay is vulnerable EVENTUALLY, maybe now you dont think Im so crazy anymore. A real Company has the ability to knock out or atkeast compete with Ebay if they do it right and having real auctions like adding 15 secs each time a bid is made is a good start. If i had the $, Id try to start my own company to compete with them. Cheers

Edited January 14, 2008 by Phantom

[deathtrappomegranate]

FWIW, I like the current system.

 

When I sell stuff, I deliberately make sure that the auction will end at a time when I'll be able to ship quickly after payment. I have little time to ship at present, and, as a result, haven't sold anything on ebay in quite a while (that, and their ridiculous fees for selling video games in the UK).

 

If they were to extend the deadline every time a last minute bid was received, there would be auctions that would just never end. A malicious user, or users, could just keep bidding the price up forever. There would very soon be software to do just that.

 

Yahoo auctions did this "deadline extension" thing for a while. It did them no good at all.

 

The current system is entirely fair. Those who feel that it is unfair have usually misunderstood the system. There is a fixed endpoint. The highest bid, at the end of the auction, wins. Simple. Fair.

 

Some people seems to believe that they have some kind of right to buy an item because theirs was the highest bid for 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 58 seconds. Not so. The only relevant factor is the relative levels of the bids at the end of the auction. At the end. There are no prizes for bidding early. If fact, there are no prizes at all.

 

I dislike all of this talk of "winning bidders". The person with the highest bid, at the end of the auction, gets to buy the item at the specified price. This is not "winning". It is buying, having offered a higher price than other interested parties.

[accousticguitar]

I dislike all of this talk of "winning bidders". The person with the highest bid, at the end of the auction, gets to buy the item at the specified price. This is not "winning". It is buying, having offered a higher price than other interested parties.

You don't like "Shopping Victoriously?"

[deathtrappomegranate]

You don't like "Shopping Victoriously?"

Of course, I have often been in the position of bidding for a highly desirable piece of A8 kit, when another collector has also wanted the same item.

 

When this situation has occurred, the person who has bid the greater amount, at the endpoint of the auction, has had the opportunity to buy the item.

 

If I have bid the greater amount, I do not consider that to have been a "victory". Similarly, if I have not, I do not consider that to have been a "loss". Rather, the rules of the auctions have been applied as they were prescribed. Each bidder was dealt with according to his/her bid, in relation to those placed by others.

 

Once the auction is over, there is simply a contract to purchase a specified item at a specified price. Indeed, the high bidder could easily be construed as a "loser", since he or she was prepared to pay more than the "going rate" for a particular item.

[Omegamatrix]

If you started extended auctions someone would just create a sniping program to look for extensions and counter act. All you the user would have to do is give your sniping program a range.

 

 

I don't think it would help anything, but it could really start frustrating the manual bidders if they had to go somewhere and the auction kept getting extended some. Actually it might force them to turn to the dark side of evil bay, or lose.

[jetset]

I've never understood the bidders who don't enter their max bids upfront either.

 

Honest question....have you ever used ebay before?

All you're doing there is letting EVERYONE know how much you're willing to pay (unlike a real auction). Its also said time and time again that this is not a wise course of action since all you're doing is guaranteeing that people will chip away at your bid until they with outbid you by some measley amount (again unlike a real auction) OR simply max your bid out. And someone outbidding you by .50 cents on an item would also normally entice you to bid another buck (again...something in a real auction)

No...if you've ever used ebay you know that's probablly the WORST way to bid.

[DreamTR]

Yahoo Auctions Japan has been doing the "real" auction method for years that is being referred to in this posting.

[video game addict]

All you're doing there is letting EVERYONE know how much you're willing to pay (unlike a real auction). Its also said time and time again that this is not a wise course of action since all you're doing is guaranteeing that people will chip away at your bid until they with outbid you by some measley amount (again unlike a real auction) OR simply max your bid out. And someone outbidding you by .50 cents on an item would also normally entice you to bid another buck (again...something in a real auction)

No...if you've ever used ebay you know that's probablly the WORST way to bid.

 

 

Regardless of whether you bid on the first day or in the closing seconds, if someone bids higher you lose the auction. IF you know the maximum you're willing to pay it doesn't matter.

 

It doesn't matter whether you're outbid by some measley amount or by hundreds of dollars the end result is still the same. IF you have a max dollar amount in your head and you are sticking to it, you either win or lose the auction depending on how much the other bidders have bid. It doesn't matter if they have 3 days to chip away as you put it, or one last second snipe. The end result is always the same.

[Phantom]

Yahoo Auctions Japan has been doing the "real" auction method for years that is being referred to in this posting.

Cool thans for the heads up. Atleast we can kinda see it in action and though its not ebay, I hear Yahoo Japan really took off! Thanks

[Prodos8]

I've used the gunbroker.com auction site for several years now and though they have a 15 minute rule I've not seen an auction go on forever. In fact the bidding wars usually take place hours or days before the auction closes not in the final minutes like on ebay. It works out better imo than just ending like ebay does since you don't need to put in a high proxy bid or resort to sniping.

 

15 Minute Rule - What is it?

(last updated on 5/31/2005 1:51:36 PM)

 

All of our auctions use something known as the '15 minute rule'.

 

In a typical auction setting, there is always a called out counting that happens to allow buyers time to decide to place higher bids. This 'final call' is reset each time someone places a bid. "Going Once, Going Twice, Going Three times" - someone places a bid - "Going Once, Going twice" - another bid placed - "Going once, going twice".. and on and on until the auctioneer completes the entire phrase "Going Once, Going Twice, Going Three times, SOLD to the highest bidder"

So this rule is no different, but because of delay caused by the internet and other possible technological speed bumps, we have a 15 minute final call time.

 

When the seller lists an item, he specifies the number of days the auction will run. The auction listings display the scheduled closing time for the auction. If there is bidding activity on the auction within fifteen (15) minutes of when the auction is scheduled to close, the auction automatically switches into a special mode analogous to the 'going, going, gone' period of a live auction. In this mode, the auction is automatically extended until there have been no bids placed within fifteen (15) minutes. When fifteen (15) minutes have passed with no bidding activity, the auction closes.

 

The 15 minute rule makes auctions more fair, by allowing all bidders an equal opportunity to place their best bid. In other online auctions where an auction ends exactly at a given time, some bidders will hold their bids until the last minute or so, in the hope of winning an item on the cheap. This is referred to as 'sniping'. The 15 minute rule gives all bidders an equal opportunity to place their best bid on an item before the item closes. This way, no bidder loses an item to sniping, and the seller can be assured that he has gotten maximum value for the item.

 

Our auctions are more like a live auction. In a live auction, bidding continues until no one wishes to place another bid. The auctioneer does the 'going once, going twice' routine, and if someone places a bid the bidding resumes. Since all persons bidding on an auction are connected by the Internet which can be slow and cranky at times, we picked 15 minutes as a reasonable amount of time to overcome any slowness or technical problems.

 

In a 'live' auction, the person who is willing to pay the most wins the item. Why should it be different on the Web? We certainly don't hide the fact we do this - you will find the 15 minute rule described in our Help Center, User Agreement, etc. It is also why our auction listings say "Ends On or After".

 

In a recent survey, a feature similar to our '15 minute rule' was the #1 most-requested feature addition that eBay ® users would like to see added to the eBay ® site.

[crunchysuperman]

All you're doing there is letting EVERYONE know how much you're willing to pay (unlike a real auction). Its also said time and time again that this is not a wise course of action since all you're doing is guaranteeing that people will chip away at your bid until they with outbid you by some measley amount (again unlike a real auction) OR simply max your bid out. And someone outbidding you by .50 cents on an item would also normally entice you to bid another buck (again...something in a real auction)

No...if you've ever used ebay you know that's probablly the WORST way to bid.

 

 

Regardless of whether you bid on the first day or in the closing seconds, if someone bids higher you lose the auction. IF you know the maximum you're willing to pay it doesn't matter.

 

It doesn't matter whether you're outbid by some measley amount or by hundreds of dollars the end result is still the same. IF you have a max dollar amount in your head and you are sticking to it, you either win or lose the auction depending on how much the other bidders have bid. It doesn't matter if they have 3 days to chip away as you put it, or one last second snipe. The end result is always the same.

 

I guess you've never had a shill bidder run you up to your max bid right away then, have you? Sniping solves that.

[A.J. Franzman]

IF you have a max dollar amount in your head and you are sticking to it, you either win or lose the auction depending on how much the other bidders have bid. It doesn't matter if they have 3 days to chip away as you put it, or one last second snipe. The end result is always the same.

Not always. Some people don't understand proxy bidding, refuse to bid their maximum amount for unknown philosophical or paranoid reasons, or simply don't have the intelligence to decide on a maximum amount in advance. These are most of the types who "chip away" until they either have the high bid (then either stop bidding, or place one more higher bid), or it somehow occurs to them that they don't want to spend any more for it than they've already bid.

 

If you really want it, and you know exactly how much you're willing to pay, and there are no other bidders in this same category whose maximum is higher than yours, waiting until the end to place your maximum bid will reduce the likelihood of a bidder in the category of my first paragraph above stepping the price up to either win it or needlessly raise its price. Of course, if there are two (or more) of these incremental bidders interested in it at the same time, as a smart bidder you're screwed, though the seller might be pleasantly surprised.

Edited January 16, 2008 by A.J. Franzman

[HammR25]

Putting in a bid early is like showing every poker player at the table your cards before betting.

 

eBay loves the "win" mentality. That's why the call it winning. The highest bidder is really the loser.

 

That's why I only use BIN or a snipe service for eBay to make sure I don't get stupid and pay more for something than I really should have.

[shadow460]

IF you have a max dollar amount in your head and you are sticking to it, you either win or lose the auction depending on how much the other bidders have bid. It doesn't matter if they have 3 days to chip away as you put it, or one last second snipe. The end result is always the same.

Not always. Some people don't understand proxy bidding, refuse to bid their maximum amount for unknown philosophical or paranoid reasons, or simply don't have the intelligence to decide on a maximum amount in advance. These are most of the types who "chip away" until they either have the high bid (then either stop bidding, or place one more higher bid), or it somehow occurs to them that they don't want to spend any more for it than they've already bid.

 

If you really want it, and you know exactly how much you're willing to pay, and there are no other bidders in this same category whose maximum is higher than yours, waiting until the end to place your maximum bid will reduce the likelihood of a bidder in the category of my first paragraph above stepping the price up to either win it or needlessly raise its price. Of course, if there are two (or more) of these incremental bidders interested in it at the same time, as a smart bidder you're screwed, though the seller might be pleasantly surprised.

 

Couldn't have explained it better myself. This is exactly why I snipe. I might throw a $5 bid out there at the beginning, hoping no one else bids. In the end, though, I'll snipe with a bid several times what the item is worth. I usually wind up paying 60 to 100% of the item's worth when I do that.

[lemoncurry]

Couldn't have explained it better myself. This is exactly why I snipe. I might throw a $5 bid out there at the beginning, hoping no one else bids. In the end, though, I'll snipe with a bid several times what the item is worth. I usually wind up paying 60 to 100% of the item's worth when I do that.

 

This is madness. I always snipe, but putting a bid in for more than the item is worth is crazy unless you want to occasionally PAY more than it's worth, when another sniper with the same strategy comes along!