Shaun.Bebbington Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Micro Mart magazine (a UK PC magazine) recently held its first 8-bit homebrew awards in the Retro Mart section. In case you've missed it, here is a brief summary: The best overall game (all formats) was an Atari title called Yoomp! It's sort of a cross between Bounder and Trailblazer. Details can be found here: http://yoomp.atari.pl/ Jeo Gunn, for the Commodore 64, was second in this category, and Jonathan Cauldwell's Quantum Gardening was in third place. Therefore, Yoomp! won the best game by format (Atari 8-bit), beating Clownland and Jetboy, which were 2nd and 3rd respectively. Full details in issue 989 of Micro Mart, if you can find it. Not sure if Micro Mart do back issues :-( but I'll try and scan the pages if I can. Details are here: http://forum.micromart.co.uk/Topic235211-24-1.aspx - the competition for the 2008 awards has therefore already begun Regards, Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Huj... Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Again :-) Yoomp FTW It's really interesting. Someone puts clever code into the A8 for some "3D" looking game, and even people outside the Atari scene recognize an outstanding product. Seems, my thesis about 3d games turns right: Also in the 80's , people would have prefered 3D games if those only were "serious" enough. Yoomp! won the ABBUC contest (surprisingly) , it won the KAZ Compo and now this one in several categories. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yoomp FTW It's really interesting. Someone puts clever code into the A8 for some "3D" looking game, and even people outside the Atari scene recognize an outstanding product. Seems, my thesis about 3d games turns right: Also in the 80's , people would have prefered 3D games if those only were "serious" enough. It didn't win these awards (and it got an accolade in the Oldschool Gaming review of 2007 too) simply because it was 3D, it won these awards because it's a well designed and playable game. That's more about the huge amount of work that has apparently gone into the level design, the control system and tuning the thing until it works well and the nice looking graphics are just icing on an already tasty cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 It didn't win these awards (and it got an accolade in the Oldschool Gaming review of 2007 too) simply because it was 3D, it won these awards because it's a well designed and playable game. That's more about the huge amount of work that has apparently gone into the level design, the control system and tuning the thing until it works well and the nice looking graphics are just icing on an already tasty cake. Guess, we are both correct As you said: " well designed and playable".... a "3D" game on an 8 bit... which is making many people "wow". Believe me. Without that "3D tube" effect, not even the half of people would give 2 cents for a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 AND THE AWARD GOES TO...Of course, we do have to choose an overall winner, selecting a game that generated more interest in 2007 than any of the others and that is a pretty tall order; in fact, rounding down to a single title has been pretty much impossible and we're going to cheat and give two awards to games in different categories because there wasn't much between the two as regards both their playability and the impact they had on their respective communities. First off, the best platformer of 2007 is going to have to be Joe Gunn on the C64, simply because it got more people playing it than just about any other 8-bit game this year and rightly so because it was very well thought out and had a lot of longevity. And secondly, the best racing game award goes to Yoomp! on the Atari 8-bits for taking an old but still workable concept like Bounder and taking it to new, interesting and playable places whilst being technically rather adept with it. A couple of honourable mentions have to go to Frogger '07 for the expanded VIC 20 for being an amazingly good conversion despite the VIC's limited screen resolution, to On Reflection for being a text adventure that not only garnered a good deal of interest from the Spectrum community, but was proud of the fact that it didn't feature any orcs or sorcery and to Star Sabre for doing something that the CPC has been needing for a while. mmm... I've played Joe Gunn for some hours and it's a good game, but nothing to do against Crownland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun.Bebbington Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Again :-) Yoomp FTW It's really interesting. Someone puts clever code into the A8 for some "3D" looking game, and even people outside the Atari scene recognize an outstanding product. Seems, my thesis about 3d games turns right: Also in the 80's , people would have prefered 3D games if those only were "serious" enough. Yoomp! won the ABBUC contest (surprisingly) , it won the KAZ Compo and now this one in several categories. Congratulations. The overall winner was between Yoomp! and Joe Gunn (C64), both excellent games. Yoomp! won based on the fact that it was the best overall game - but it was a very close call. It could have gone either way. It wasn't the most original game, for instance; that went to a 2D ZX Spectrum game for the "most original" category. In fact, all but Yoomp! were 2D. Regards, Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun.Bebbington Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Guess, we are both correct As you said: " well designed and playable".... a "3D" game on an 8 bit... which is making many people "wow". Believe me. Without that "3D tube" effect, not even the half of people would give 2 cents for a vote. Not necessarily true - I generally prefer 2D games - Some ZX Spectrum homebrew is particularly superb. And take away the "tube" and make it 2D and you will get something like Bounder, which I think is an excellent game. Regards, Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 mmm... I've played Joe Gunn for some hours and it's a good game, but nothing to do against Crownland. Hm... Not sure, whether those games can be compared or not. The C64 game benefits by a very ambient music, and a "fitting" graphics. Overall it has really nice controls: When the jump was a little too short, the protagonist doesn't simply die-> He grabs the corner and climbs up to save his life. All animations are also very nice. I'd call it not only the best C64 platformer game of 2007. And, really, Crownland isn't the top of platformers, according to what's possible technically on the A8 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 First off, the best platformer of 2007 is going to have to be Joe Gunn on the C64, simply because it got more people playing it than just about any other 8-bit game this year I'd like to see the amount of voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun.Bebbington Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 I'd like to see the amount of voters. This thread would at least give some indication of Joe Gunn's popularity... http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24106 Regards, Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) On RGCD electronic magazine were reviewed both games: ---------------- Joe Gunn ----- Crownland Graphics -------- 88% ----------- 96% Sound ----------- 92% ----------- 95% Game concept -- 93% ----------- 88% Game play ------ 93% ----------- 97% Lasting appeal -- 90% ----------- 85% OVERALL -------- 91% ----------- 92% At least Crownland could reach a minimum victory, but those type of qualifies show how much the people inflating the C64 games. I'm agree that Joe Gunn is a fun game but not more like old Bruce Lee or Montezuma Revenge's quality. Maybe is something as Spelunker or last Caverunner Atari game. Graphics? 88% its so far for a game that all the 75 chambers looks the same thing ( as 90's polish adventure games ). Only is necessary a little view to take notice of that: Sound 92% vs 95%?... Joe Hunt have a unique background music on the all game and is a well known tune. Instead Crownland have many excellent pieces of music along the game. Rest of qualifies could be in justice, but the final results on a strange different of only 1%. Incredible! And other some sites said that Joe Gunn is the "Best 8-bit platformer game of 2007" ....eeeh? Sounds exactly equal to say "Jet Set Willy" is better than "Crownland" Edited February 12, 2008 by Allas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'd like to see the amount of voters. It's not based on votes as such, the games were nominated by the Oldschool Gaming review team and my comment (since t'was me who wrote the piece) is based on what i and the other OSG staff experienced; people from Atari, Amstrad and Spectrum sites were asking how to get past where they were stuck, huge conversations were held on the various flavours of #c-64 and our own channel #osg on IRCNet and just about every C64 message board has multiple threads and it went on for quite a while too. i started gettning annoyed with fielding questions after a while, i kept telling people i was lousy at the thing and after the first month it got a bit silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Rest of qualifies could be in justice, but the final results on a strange different of only 1%. Incredible! And other some sites said that Joe Gunn is the "Best 8-bit platformer game of 2007" ....eeeh? For a start, that's a bogus argument; just because one site sort of backs up your opinion doesn't mean to say that the others have to agree too. RGCD's reviewing system is based on an average for the overall score, any game that scores slightly lower for graphics will get a lower overall score too under that system. We don't use the same system at OSG and i don't believe Shaun does for his weekly column in Micro Mart, a game with weak graphics that plays brilliantly can out-score something that looks good but isn't as playable. As a result Joe Gunn topped Crownland for us at OSG. Sounds exactly equal to say "Jet Set Willy" is better than "Crownland" As a game, yes a lot of people will say that Jet Set Willy is a better game than Crownland - after all, xxl must have been pretty impressed with it to put all that effort into a conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sounds exactly equal to say "Jet Set Willy" is better than "Crownland" As a game, yes a lot of people will say that Jet Set Willy is a better game than Crownland - after all, xxl must have been pretty impressed with it to put all that effort into a conversion. Yes, I heard people said JET SET WILLY is the top platformer game of all times, eve better than Sonic. But, there are fanatics. At the eyes of anyone is obvious what is better. Here at least, nobody take much attention on Joe Gunn, instead they played a lot of time Crownland and Yoomp!, there were players from PC, any deep knowledge about 8bit scene. Strange things happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ---------------- Joe Gunn ----- CrownlandGraphics -------- 88% ----------- 96% Interesting. 88% for JG is a good assumption. But 96% for Crownland.... where do they come from? Seems, someone got impressed by the colours. By all the "flicker" and the reduced resolution, the game got that high number for the graphics. I'd not call the "voters" C64 biased here. Sound ----------- 92% ----------- 95% A clear thing. The mass wins. For a single tune, the JG one beats all of the A8 tunes. It's not by the limits of either soundchips. It's by the ambient. Listening to the Knight Lore tune, you may recognize that pokey even can do "ambient" music by standard 64kHz programming. Game concept -- 93% ----------- 88% No questione here. Jumping after some stars and just to come to the end of the level would just gain some 20-30% on todays PC games. Joe Gunn is a Jump&Run Adventure. Game play ------ 93% ----------- 97% Well, the Atari Games has very good controls. But, the C64 game offes more control options. So, again, we cannot easily say that the "Voters" are C64 biased Lasting appeal -- 90% ----------- 85% Belonging to the type of Games, correct . OVERALL -------- 91% ----------- 92%[/b] Seeing Yoomp! beyond the rest of "contestants" and a clear winner, Joe Gun really is better than Crownland, if it is really possible to compare them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yes, I heard people said JET SET WILLY is the top platformer game of all times, eve better than Sonic. But, there are fanatics. At the eyes of anyone is obvious what is better. Yes it's obvious as long as you ignore the graphics and worry about how the thing plays since they are, after all, games and that's the important thing. Here at least, nobody take much attention on Joe Gunn, instead they played a lot of time Crownland and Yoomp!, there were players from PC, any deep knowledge about 8bit scene. Strange things happens! The bulk of the interest here was, according to my memory of things, for Yoomp! because it's a good game and that interest extended onto other sites and other platforms whilst talk about Crownland barely left the Atari boards (the only time i remember it reaching the C64 community was a private message chat on IRC about porting it to the C64 but without the time shared sprites so that it wouldn't flicker). To my mind, there should have been far more interest in MULE Wars than Crownland because that's a far rarer genre of game for homebrew developers, something that should at least be applauded for taking the risk but, unfortunately, that particular title didn't have flashy graphics and a lot of people seem to have ignored it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Interesting. 88% for JG is a good assumption. But 96% for Crownland.... where do they come from? Seems, someone got impressed by the colours. It's not really a case of them bumping up the overall score, the review system at RGCD takes all the other scores and an average is calculated on a purely mathematical basis for that final score - the reviewer doesn't get to choose it. As you rightly said, the "lasting appeal" score is more important than the overall in review systems like that. (Personally i thought the graphics score was a bit low, Joe himself is beautifully animated.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eru Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 First of all, thanks for all the nice words about Yoomp! - we're very happy you all liked it so much. But, I would like to take an opportunity to say something about Crownland. Technically, it is the most ambitious project in a long while on Atari - you do not really seem to appreciate the complexity of the engine and the amount of work Pr0be put into it. It's a pity its development was spread over such a long time, and the final version is still not here. I think if not for that, it could have defeated Yoomp!. All in all, I don't like the messages that are being so negative about one production or another - we should try to encourage the developers any way we can, and this type of discussions doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I like both... but played more often Crownland... sorry Mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) oh... and Eru... yup...sometimes people underestimate the time which was spend to get the game running... and it wasn't only probe but the guys who did level design, artwork, msx beta testing etc... as well. but good to here there will be a "final" version... hopefully with nice G2F and more levels... so...on schedule are - Crownland 2008 - Bomb Jack - Pang - Alien 8 - Nightshade - Metallamas - Lord of Midnight - Tempest Deluxe - Yoomp NTSC ... and some other projects I am working on when I am finishing Metallama... not bad at all I can think of years when we had less games appearing... Edited February 13, 2008 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Not that I've played the others a lot, but Yoomp IMO was a cut above. It's the sort of game that would be just as at home on a mobile phone or a modern console. In fact, a mobile version would be great, since really it only needs 3 keys for control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Rybags...oh...you are one of the poeple who play mobile games on the phone? i tend to use my DS... but maybe i am oldschool and hate mobile phone controls and games in general... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) ... Edited February 13, 2008 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 All in all, I don't like the messages that are being so negative about one production or another - we should try to encourage the developers any way we can, and this type of discussions doesn't help. There's nothing negative about saying that game A is better than game B, it doesn't automatically imply that game B isn't good. i'll happily say right now that i think Crownland is a very good game and a lot of people agree, but a lot more people named Joe Gunn in preference to it when the various round ups of 2007 happened. Yes, it's a complex project and i believe that i can indeed appreciate what the engine is doing but, as i keep finding myself saying on this board (and i'm getting slightly concerned that i'm repeating this so often), it's all about playability and how much fun each game offers; it looks great yes and better than JSW or Joe Gunn but those two will keep a player busy for months and Crownland doesn't have that kind of staying power, at least not to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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