8-bit synth?

[+pboland]

Is there any software for the 8-bits that turn the atari computer into a synth? If so, what are name of these software titles? I tried the search but all I get is some Hardsynth (which seem to be a collection of music programed by users with an atari computer,but not software the turns the computer into a synth.) stuff and the 2600 synth cart thing. Maybe I am just missing something?

[+bcombee]

Is there any software for the 8-bits that turn the atari computer into a synth? If so, what are name of these software titles? I tried the search but all I get is some Hardsynth (which seem to be a collection of music programed by users with an atari computer,but not software the turns the computer into a synth.) stuff and the 2600 synth cart thing. Maybe I am just missing something?

 

There's a fair amount of composition software. Notable titles are the early cartridge "Music Composer" and the popular disc titled "Advanced Music System" and "Music Construction Set". Looking through the Antic archives, I also saw mention of the "Colleen Music Creator", which has a drum machine mode.

 

There'a a lot of good music articles at http://www.atarimagazines.com/index/index.php?issue=v2n8

[+pboland]

Is there any software for the 8-bits that turn the atari computer into a synth? If so, what are name of these software titles? I tried the search but all I get is some Hardsynth (which seem to be a collection of music programed by users with an atari computer,but not software the turns the computer into a synth.) stuff and the 2600 synth cart thing. Maybe I am just missing something?

 

There's a fair amount of composition software. Notable titles are the early cartridge "Music Composer" and the popular disc titled "Advanced Music System" and "Music Construction Set". Looking through the Antic archives, I also saw mention of the "Colleen Music Creator", which has a drum machine mode.

 

There'a a lot of good music articles at http://www.atarimagazines.com/index/index.php?issue=v2n8

Thanks for the the info! I like the sound of the DRUMESISER the best, but it is probably impossible to find the cart these days without giving up a kidney or something.

[Urchlay]

This is sort-of on topic...

 

I know there are several MIDI adaptors for the Atari 8-bit, but as far as I can tell, they're MIDI output: you run tracker software on the Atari, which spits out MIDI notes (events) over the SIO port (or maybe the joystick port), and the sound is played by an external device like a MIDI keyboard or drum machine.

 

Did anyone ever do the opposite? I think it'd be cool to play a MIDI keyboard or guitar, and send the notes to an Atari, and have the Atari synthesize the tones using the POKEY... How cool would that be?

 

As far as I know, such a thing doesn't exist... but I hope I'm wrong. Somebody tell me I'm wrong...?

[analmux]

This is sort-of on topic...

 

I know there are several MIDI adaptors for the Atari 8-bit, but as far as I can tell, they're MIDI output: you run tracker software on the Atari, which spits out MIDI notes (events) over the SIO port (or maybe the joystick port), and the sound is played by an external device like a MIDI keyboard or drum machine.

 

Did anyone ever do the opposite? I think it'd be cool to play a MIDI keyboard or guitar, and send the notes to an Atari, and have the Atari synthesize the tones using the POKEY... How cool would that be?

 

As far as I know, such a thing doesn't exist... but I hope I'm wrong. Somebody tell me I'm wrong...?

 

Only thing I can say is that I once did a try, with a selfmade interface connector. It worked.

 

MIDI is also a serial protocol, which can be best handled with the standard SIO port. This is what I did.

 

There is a downside however: SIO activity always means noises on the bus, as SIO is internally handled by Pokey which is also the soundchip. It's similar to when accessing diskdrives e.a. Everytime you push a key on your midi-keyboard, you'll hear some kind of SIO click on Pokey, which off course interferes with a synth-voice also played by Pokey.

 

Also, it sounds more logical (to me) to do MIDI output from atari, as a synth apparatus often doesn't have the limit of 4 voices (like Pokey)

 

Unless you make use of so-called arpeggios it's not possible to play big chords anyway with this procedure, so playing the atari can just as well be done by simply using the atari-keyboard.

 

here's a similar topic, where I wrote similar things with maybe some more explanation:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121617

[UNIXcoffee928]

Hmmm... Bet it would work out fine with dual/multiple POKEYs, though!

 

Certainly worth a try, after all, we do have a long way to go to catch up with the SIDstation.

 

Synth-wise, we would first need to develop a standardized method of creating an ADSR Envelope (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) to use as a generalized library/subroutine.

 

Then we need to make up some libraries/subroutines for modulation of the sound. Volume Only (speaker sound) could be used as a fully programmable modulator, if included into the audio mix.

 

The envelope itself is just a series of volumes & duration loops. If we made up a table to start with, we could use it for hashing, later in the design. The whole thing is that we would want to optimize it & really bum the code down to the cycle to really make full use of the hardware. It would be important to consider designing MIDI Start/Stop clocking, and BPM control, right from the start, as a basis for timing. Various system timers could be used to this end.

 

Other than that, a control panel (GUI &/or hardare knobs/sliders/buttons) that allows the direct manipulation of the standard POKEY addresses found in De Re Atari manual. Atari 800s with the 4 ports in front are ideally suited for this type of hardware console interface (using all possible pot, stick, & button pins). Multiple POKEYs would really work out here, too.

 

Once these basics have been fleshed out, we could be well on our way to designing an Atari-based synth.

 

It would be nice to have at least a synth panel, like in the old Amiga program, Aegis Sonix (formerly Musicraft) that could be controlled with basic note on/off messages via MIDI.

 

Speaking of which, we should define an opensource MIDI hardare interface, for the Atari, that anyone can build easily.

 

With these things in place, then everyone could easily add to the functionality of such a setup.

 

As far as I know, Rybags is the guy to talk to regarding the needs of the software, and MetalGuy could certainly come up with some sort of inexpensive & easy to build MIDI interface in his sleep.

 

If we can generate enough interest in such a thing, I would certainly like to help out in any way possible.

 

Let's discuss the limitations & workarounds that we would be facing with such an endeavor, maybe we can actually come up with something fast, cheap, & cool.

Edited March 1, 2008 by UNIXcoffee928

[athleos]

Hmmm... Bet it would work out fine with dual/multiple POKEYs, though!

 

Certainly worth a try, after all, we do have a long way to go to catch up with the SIDstation.

 

Synth-wise, we would first need to develop a standardized method of creating an ADSR Envelope (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) to use as a generalized library/subroutine.

 

Then we need to make up some libraries/subroutines for modulation of the sound. Volume Only (speaker sound) could be used as a fully programmable modulator, if included into the audio mix.

 

The envelope itself is just a series of volumes & duration loops. If we made up a table to start with, we could use it for hashing, later in the design. The whole thing is that we would want to optimize it & really bum the code down to the cycle to really make full use of the hardware. It would be important to consider designing MIDI Start/Stop clocking, and BPM control, right from the start, as a basis for timing. Various system timers could be used to this end.

 

Other than that, a control panel (GUI &/or hardare knobs/sliders/buttons) that allows the direct manipulation of the standard POKEY addresses found in De Re Atari manual. Atari 800s with the 4 ports in front are ideally suited for this type of hardware console interface (using all possible pot, stick, & button pins). Multiple POKEYs would really work out here, too.

 

Once these basics have been fleshed out, we could be well on our way to designing an Atari-based synth.

 

It would be nice to have at least a synth panel, like in the old Amiga program, Aegis Sonix (formerly Musicraft) that could be controlled with basic note on/off messages via MIDI.

 

Speaking of which, we should define an opensource MIDI hardare interface, for the Atari, that anyone can build easily.

 

With these things in place, then everyone could easily add to the functionality of such a setup.

 

As far as I know, Rybags is the guy to talk to regarding the needs of the software, and MetalGuy could certainly come up with some sort of inexpensive & easy to build MIDI interface in his sleep.

 

If we can generate enough interest in such a thing, I would certainly like to help out in any way possible.

 

Let's discuss the limitations & workarounds that we would be facing with such an endeavor, maybe we can actually come up with something fast, cheap, & cool.

 

is it possible to configure MIOS used in the Midibox platform (uCapps.de) for this? it's possible that once the program is figured out one could incorporate a POKEY "module" that would interface with the other "modules" utilized in a Midibox... i'm building a Midibox SID right now and want to use my 600xl as a synth as well. this would be a great way to utilize the POKEY to it's max potential. only problem is, you have to cannibalize an 8bit computer to get a POKEY(S) correct me if i'm wrong. i would do anything in my power to help but unfortunately i can't program at all let alone in C and i don't have any knowledge of electronics beyond the basics. i'm just really good at following instructions. i can however, direct you all to the midibox.org forums where we can get some help figuring the Midibox idea out. i'm interested in making the POKEY give the SID a run for it's money (though unfortunately it will probably just jog the SID and then lose all the money). just search for POKEY and see what comes up. it looks to me like there just isn't enough demand/time for the right people to figure it out.

Edited March 2, 2008 by athleos

[athleos]

OK.. upon further investigation. i found a few things. here they are: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/top...5.html#msg74465

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/midibox_pokey?s=pokey

 

and, i answered my own question and found that you can in fact buy POKEYs without destroying an 8bit computer. i hope this helps anyone interested in this option.

[UNIXcoffee928]

Yeah, that's interesting, at http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/midibox_pokey?s=pokey.

 

I like the bitwise Tetris-like buttons, cool GUI idea, very modern. That concept could really get a lot of mileage with both MIDI & POKEY apps, for future GUI designs, due to the nature of the data that needs to be manipulated.

 

- What is the MAX amount of POKEYs that have been tried successfully in an ATARI?

 

Has anyone gone beyond quad?

 

I think that the Star Wars vector arcade machine did dual quad POKEYS, I'll have to check on that, though.

 

It would be rather interesting to use the LPT POKEY with a real ATARI (instead of a PC), hooked up to the parallel interface on the 850 interface module. It would probably work.

 

In a case like that, you could achieve unbelievably thick sounds by layering the output of the voices, especially if each POKEY had a separate audio line-out available. Then it would be just a matter of running each of the POKEY's output through a mixing board.

 

It seems to me that the LPT POKEY interface could easily be scaled up to MANY (like maybe 16) POKEYs.

 

We would need to determine the real-world bandwidth of the 850's parallel port, and compare it to the data I/O requirements of a single POKEY to determine the theoretical maximum number of POKEYs, that could be used at once, on the printer port, then there would be a foo factor for whatever the port can REALLY handle when it comes to real-world POKEY transmissions, but it would be quite interesting to do, nonetheless.

 

 

- Anyone out there have a lot of experience with multiple POKEYs?

- Anyone have a list of signal values from the audio port for each Atari 8-bit model? Are they standard Line-level?

 

 

 

L8R.

[UNIXcoffee928]

WOW! The main MIDIBOX page is pretty amazing!!!

 

http://www.ucapps.de/

 

Thanks for turning me on to this!

 

 

L8R.

[athleos]

I really can't answer any of your questions but i do know that at http://www.c64net.com/fotios/fbss.php these guys made a second SID chip possible for the C64 without any modifications. they used the cartridge bay though... which may be a little awkward, especially with a 600 or 800 XL. the Midibox stuff is amazing isn't it? i'm building a Midibox SID v.2 right now and plan to build two more with more and more SID chips each time. but since i am familiar with this process i really would like to do a multiple POKEY midibox now that the info is almost all there. since i only have musical knowledge and no electronic or programming, this is the best option for me. i do have an 8bit computer though, and if you do figure out how to go multi-POKEY with an 8bit, i'd love to give it a shot.