Big_Mo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey all: Does anyone know if there were ever any programs for animating in GTIA modes like GR. 9 or 11? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollett Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey all: Does anyone know if there were ever any programs for animating in GTIA modes like GR. 9 or 11? Well, the program was definately a stronger paint program than animation program, but I remember Rambrandt allowed you to make small animations in the GTIA modes. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey all: Does anyone know if there were ever any programs for animating in GTIA modes like GR. 9 or 11? Well, the program was definately a stronger paint program than animation program, but I remember Rambrandt allowed you to make small animations in the GTIA modes. Bob I recall having that program a billion years ago, but I have some recollection that I couldn't get it to work. The reason I ask is I had created GTIA images for a sub-pixel animation that I never had the chance to get animated on my XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey all: Does anyone know if there were ever any programs for animating in GTIA modes like GR. 9 or 11? Well, the program was definately a stronger paint program than animation program, but I remember Rambrandt allowed you to make small animations in the GTIA modes. Bob I recall having that program a billion years ago, but I have some recollection that I couldn't get it to work. The reason I ask is I had created GTIA images for a sub-pixel animation that I never had the chance to get animated on my XL. I think Mr. Atari's digitized movies utilized the GTIA modes. I don't know if that is what you are looking for but the outcome may be the same: http://www.mr-atari.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 The reason I ask is I had created GTIA images for a sub-pixel animation... I don't think "sub-pixel" means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) The reason I ask is I had created GTIA images for a sub-pixel animation... I don't think "sub-pixel" means what you think it means. Then kindly tell me what you think it means instead of implying ignorance on my part. Edited March 26, 2008 by Big_Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Subpixels. Unless you've managed to secure an 80x200 color LCD panel, I very much doubt you're doing subpixel anything. Only thing I can guess is that you're talking about antialiasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 he could be talking about sub pixel accuracy movement and rendering (like when using float coordinates to render a quad in OpenGL, for example) well, technically this could be considered as some kind of anti aliasing (like super sampling).. anyway, gtia 9 with its pixel ratio and 16 shades is a nice candidate for horizontal movement with sub pixel accuracy (..moving to program a small demo..) NRV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 he could be talking about sub pixel accuracy movement and rendering (like when using float coordinates to render a quad in OpenGL, for example) well, technically this could be considered as some kind of anti aliasing (like super sampling).. anyway, gtia 9 with its pixel ratio and 16 shades is a nice candidate for horizontal movement with sub pixel accuracy (..moving to program a small demo..) NRV More or less. Albeit Zylonbane refers to the more recent 1999 and on usage of sub-pixel, years before that some of us old video game graphics guys used "subpixel" to describe moving images an increments smaller than one computer generated pixel via color shifting (a sort of sliding antialias). I took a starship from the DS9 Sega Genesis game I worked on and converted it to GTIA monochome, and then used this method to move it one GTIA pixel width over 4 frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I think the 'Numen' Demo uses GTIA modes....as it uses a graphics coding trick called 'GTIA bug' according to the demo's authors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Numen uses several gfx modes... http://numen.scene.pl/tech.html mostly when flickering it's using the "gtia bug" which means hip/tip-mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Numen uses several gfx modes... http://numen.scene.pl/tech.html mostly when flickering it's using the "gtia bug" which means hip/tip-mode. Ok, I'll bite. What's a hip/tip mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/k_nadj/tip.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Numen uses several gfx modes... http://numen.scene.pl/tech.html mostly when flickering it's using the "gtia bug" which means hip/tip-mode. Too bad the Gr. 11 is not shifted by one color clock or the upper bit of 4-bit pixel in Gr. 10 does not cause half-bright; that would have allowed for good colored photos at 160*200. It's not really a GTIA "bug" though if all Gr. 10 are shifted by one color clock unless there are some GTIAs without the color clock shift. I spotted an actual bug in the GTIA (or GTIA-related) a long time ago-- when I was displaying 16 shades of gray in Gr. 9 on Atari 400; I see one blue vertical line in the middle which is not present on the Atari 800/XL/XE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Atariksi, that's why I am nowadays speaking of "bug" instead of bug... as GTIA needs time to get the right colour for mode10 and this is causing the delay by one colour clock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 That's my theory as well. Actually, it would have been nice if Atari had just put a HDELAY register in, like you have VDELAY for lores PMGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/k_nadj/tip.html Link doesn't work. 404 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 oh...my website has gone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Its not hard to do animation with gtia modes, but what I think will be cool if someone did something with APAC mode besides just having still pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 ok. as my old website seems to get whipped from the provider i dig into archives.org... question... as the www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/k_nadj/tip.html and /mode9++.html were not linked from the main index is there any chance that some of you have the english text around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) Don't seem to have it. It was a pretty short doc anyway, wasn't it? To get square GR. 9, 10 or 11 pixels, alternately have the VScroll bit set in each second Display List line. Have a DLI on each line. Due to a bug/feature in ANTIC, what should be only a single line graphics mode can then be transformed into as many lines as you wish by careful manipulation of the VSCROL register at the right times. Set the VSCROLL register to $D for the lines with the VScroll bit set, then set it to 3 on the lines without VScroll set. The reason the mode works is the way Antic does it's scrolling. On the first line of a scrolled region, it displays lines from the VSCROL register value up until the number of lines in the mode. For the last line of the scrolled region (ie the first one it finds without the VSCROLL bit set in it's DList instruction), it displays from line 0 up until the value in the VSCROL register. Since the VSCROL register is only 4 bits wide, a value of $D causes it to roll over to 0 after 4 iterations. This method, despite having overhead for the DLI routines, provides a large saving in CPU time since no graphics DMA needs to be performed except on the top line of the pixels, as opposed to having a Display List with repeated LMS from the same location which would then cause the exact same data to be re-read from RAM for each screen line. Edited April 5, 2008 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 hmmm.. somewhere inside this modes.zip NRV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Hmm, here is the information I have about HIP, RIP, TIP and mode 9 plus in general. The four ASCII texts are very similar, looks like they were written by one author (and maybe later modified or re-used by others)... -Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Its not hard to do animation with gtia modes, but what I think will be cool if someone did something with APAC mode besides just having still pictures. I did write some program to transmit audio-visuals in real-time through the joystick port to the Atari from the PC; however, I used standard GTIA mode 9 and got about 2fr/second w/streaming 4-bit sample audio (using no compression). Is the APAC and these other modes "owned" by someone or are they available for use by anyone? I mean the idea not the code since I know how to use a DLI or VBI to toggle between graphics modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 thanks Andreas, these are all files we need to restore for years to come... same to the sample playing stuff and all other nice features you can do with the Atari hardware... btw. the hip doc is written by me... small world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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