Space Invaders 7800

[ZylonBane]

I completely agree. I though the game was just perfect without it.

You thought the game was "perfect" without the visual characteristic so distinctive to Space Invaders that it's been retained in every official sequel? WTF is wrong with you? No SI port can be perfect without that effect.

 

PMP's version of Space Invaders was, however, very good. I'm more than a little surprised that he's deciding to start over, since I'd gotten the impression from his recent posts that he was ready to move on to something else.

 

But if he really is going to do a 2.0 version, I'd strongly recommend moving the status displays off to the side this time. SI needs all the vertical space it can get.

[Underball]

I completely agree. I though the game was just perfect without it.

You thought the game was "perfect" without the visual characteristic so distinctive to Space Invaders that it's been retained in every official sequel? WTF is wrong with you? No SI port can be perfect without that effect.

this is why bob scrapped his first version and is going to start all over.

 

he got tired of all the whiners like you.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Underball

[HammR25]

Now they'll have new things to whine about in the new version as well because it won't be "perfect" either. If the real game doesn't have the status display on the side then any version Bob does shouldn't either. It wouldn't be "perfect".

 

Personally I'm very happy with any version Bob puts out for basically free.

Edited July 24, 2008 by HammR25

[Shannon]

They seemed more like persistent requests, than whining to me...

 

Non the less I still have the versions released in this thread to play with in the meantime.

 

On the other hand it will be an opportunity for PMP to learn more about the 7800. But is it really gonna be possible without taking up too many cycles?

[+Sauron]

I'm disappointed that the release of the current version has been canceled, as I thought he had done a fantastic job with it. However, this is essentially PMP's creation and it's up to him to release whatever version he decides is best, despite what other people have to say. If he feels that making it closer to the arcade version would be best, then so be it. I'll purchase whatever version he decides to release.

[Vic George 2K3]

As long as it's worth the wait.

[ZylonBane]

Now they'll have new things to whine about in the new version as well because it won't be "perfect" either. If the real game doesn't have the status display on the side then any version Bob does shouldn't either. It wouldn't be "perfect".

Hey, you.

 

Stop being so stupid.

[PacManPlus]

Guys, please don't do this. I am trying to bring something fun in here, don't ruin it by taking shots at each other.

 

On a lighter note, thanks for the compliments. As I noted inthe other thread I have my doubts that the sprite way will work (or maybe they are just doubts about my ability to make it work), but I'm going to try either way.

 

I just have something I have to get out of my system first (an Idea I have about another game). I need to see if it works the way I think.

 

Bob

[Bill Loguidice]

Guys, please don't do this. I am trying to bring something fun in here, don't ruin it by taking shots at each other.

 

On a lighter note, thanks for the compliments. As I noted inthe other thread I have my doubts that the sprite way will work (or maybe they are just doubts about my ability to make it work), but I'm going to try either way.

 

I just have something I have to get out of my system first (an Idea I have about another game). I need to see if it works the way I think.

 

Bob

 

At this point, with all that you've learned (and the fact that you're not moving ahead with a final release of the finished game), and the fact that Space Invaders is already widely available for many other systems (including a great ColecoVision version), why not just go for it with this next "retry" and create an original variation on the Space Invaders theme? It seems like you could really pull something neat off and you wouldn't have to bother with recreating something to exacting detail when it really wouldn't accomplish much. I think overall it would be a lot more exciting, especially considering the 7800 platform is starved for new original games. Just my opinion, and I'll of course support whatever you end up with.

[gambler172]

Hi Bob

I am really sad,that you cancelled the game.It was really good.But it seems,that a programmer could never make a perfect game......There are always some guys,who give you the feeling that you did a bad job.But this is not true,the 7800 Space Invaders is really great and plays very well on my 7800 systems.And remember;there are soo many SI versions in the net.....Which one is perfect????It is not important to make a perfect game,it is important to make a good game.And SI 7800 is really good.

greetings Walter

[NE146]

Let me just say I've played a LOT of Space Invaders in my life since the late 70's. And the version you created above is absolutely amazing to me in that it captures the arcade GAMEPLAY so well. Almost all the strategies you use in the arcade game are directly applicable to your version.. that's why I think it's unique amongst every other classic console Space Invader "port" out there. Visual effects (rainbow, ripple, etc.) be damned.

 

Yes we have Space Invaders on the Colecovision, but to be fair that used a ported version of the actual arcade source code. So of course it's perfect.. heck it's almost an emulation in a sense. It even has the easter eggs & bugs.

 

However yours is what I'd always imagined as a kid what a Space Invaders at home could be...so close to the real thing, and has a feel all of it's own. Don't lose that original version man

 

If you're going to start from scratch though, maybe you could consider having SI part 2 / Deluxe in there. Just a thought

[CV Gus]

 

From what I can see so far- I cannot play it here, I'm afraid- it still looks great. It has that "essence" missing from the 5200 version.

 

Apparently, programming on the 7800 is REALLY a hassle. That you've accomplished so much so far is beyond what 99.8% of 7800 users (or anyone) could do. And even fewer would dare try.

 

That's what I like about homebrewers. Most of us would like to see new games for old systems, especially games that never came out but were supposed to (TEMPEST! SPECTAR!). Homebrewers actually make it happen. I myself clearly cannot make it happen for the CV, although I have homebrewed some interesting hardware. But games? Zip so far.

 

[PacManPlus]

Hi Guys:

 

It's not looking good for the ripple effect. I think, for the 7800 version. It's most likely going to stay how it was. I believe it is just beyond my ability at this point to do something like this.

 

Having said that, I don't think it's 100% me. It seems to me that certain hardware lends itself to accomplishing certain things. The idiosyncrasies of the hardware that the arcade Space Invaders ran on doesn't seem to lend itself to the 7800 very well. It would be great if someone more experienced with the 7800 would tell me if I'm wrong or right. I am already right at or over the number of CPU cycles especially during the shield section. I don't see how I would be using *less* cycles changing this to check every individual invader, for two shots each.

 

I think I'm finally going to put this to bed.

 

Here are, again, the final NTSC & PAL versions of Space Invaders 7800.

Thanks, everyone,

Bob

SI7800.ZIP

SI7800P.ZIP

[Gregory DG]

Thank goodness! I was hoping you wouldn't throw out all your great work for one minor "feature" that (as you say) was probably just a byproduct of the hardware anyway.

 

Thanks again, Bob. You rock!

[Shannon]

Graphics Reads:

Direct 3 cycles

Indirect/1 byte 6 cycles

Indirect/2 byte 9 cycles

 

Character Map access 3 cycles

 

Well if the DMA cycle chart reads the way I think it does switching to Direct mode will eat more cycles anyways.

 

But then again I'm NOT speaking from experience.

[the maddestman]

Top work! Thanks for taking the time to do this and for actually releasing it!

[Trebor]

Bob,

 

I am happy that this can be put to bed. You have done an outstanding job. Much better and feature rich than anything Atari would have done if Space Invaders was ported to the 7800 back in the day.

 

Fantastic work! Thanks again for sharing your talent with the community. It is greatly appreciated.

 

-Trebor

[gambler172]

Hi Bob

I am happy about this.Let me say;which SI version is perfect?Taito just did a lot of SI versions.Each better,than the last.I own a SI Anniversary Cd,with lots of SI versions.If you want,i could send you this CD(you could keep it as long as you need)and you can see,that there are lots of different SI versions.

But now a final word.

YOUR SI 7800 VERSION IS REALLY REALLY GOOD AND PLAYS VERY WELL.

greetings Walter

[TrekMD]

You have done an excellent job with this port and I'm glad you are sticking with it. So, will you be making the carts then?

[Gorf]

I respect your decision and want to be clear it was only a suggestion to look into the possibility

of adding that 'feature'. The game is fine without it.

[PacManPlus]

Thanks, everyone

 

So many people asked about it I felt I had to at least look into it. It looked like it was going to be like what Shannon said above, so I decided to keep it as it was.

 

Yes, carts will be made - soon. I'm waiting for some cart shells and boards to come in first before I start anything.

 

Thanks again,

Bob

[+remowilliams]

The game is fine without it.

And if Gorf tells you that you've done a good job on an arcade port - you know it's got to be good.

 

Yes, carts will be made - soon.

Awesome, bring 'em on!

[Lord Helmet]

Can't wait for my copy!

[ZylonBane]

So in the end, what was the biggest obstacle to implementing the ripple-- collision detection, or DMA cycles?

 

I've been poking around the 7800's technical documentation, and its sprite system looks confusing as hell... almost like GCC intentionally set out to create the most programmer-hostile display hardware possible. Am I correct in thinking that character mode is just a different way of getting display data into sprites? Could you, for example, have multiple overlapping character-mode lines?

[kenfused]

So in the end, what was the biggest obstacle to implementing the ripple-- collision detection, or DMA cycles?

 

I've been poking around the 7800's technical documentation, and its sprite system looks confusing as hell... almost like GCC intentionally set out to create the most programmer-hostile display hardware possible. Am I correct in thinking that character mode is just a different way of getting display data into sprites? Could you, for example, have multiple overlapping character-mode lines?

 

Indirect (character) mode is essentially like character modes on most 8-bit machines or tile graphics as usually called on many consoles. You could overlap character mode regions but I dont think transparency or holey dma works with them so they are most useful for backgrounds.

 

It is easier to program maria then it is to write a sprite multiplexer to get a decent number of sprites out of the 5200. In fact there are a lot of similarities since in each you are probably going to be assigning sprites to different vertical zones.