Trebor Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Fixed it. here's the NEW Prosystem NTSC palette. Inky is now Blue again. I corrected the whole gradation, not just this particular color, so everything should look right/as close as can be. Thanks for taking a stab at this Underball, while Inky in Pac-Man does look better, on the other hand in Space Invaders the color scheme 0 - The ship and shields still don't have that Green-ish look, here's a screenshot using your palette with the images from Post 160: I believe it should look more like this: -Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) I took a second look, and I agree with you Trebor. I have changed the green. Changed: 1) Colors (Trebor, please let me know if it's ok) 2) Starting invader positions shifted right (thanks NE146) 3) Reset player position at the beginning of each wave (thanks again NE146) 4) Added a fourth Color Scheme I also added a little something... Won't say what, but you have to find it. Clue: When it looks like something small changed, it actually leads to something else that's different. A question as well... Should I make it say 'ATARI' instead of 'TAITO'? Edited July 24, 2008 by PacManPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Yeah, I missed the green shades. here the FINAL corrected version. I compared them directly with the Color Demo running on my CC2 on real hardware. It won't get any closer without a X-Rite Calibrator and a colorimeter. Prosystem_NTSC_Corrected.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 A question as well... Should I make it say 'ATARI' instead of 'TAITO'? Definitely TAITO. Having it say ATARI wouldn't make any kind of sense. The start of the game is still a bit off. What's supposed to happen is that the invaders appear, then immediately start marching (but not firing), than after two "steps", the player ship appears. Also, the marching sound always seems to start with the second note in the sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleman jack Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Will this be released as a cart one day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatNJ Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Yeah I would def buy a cart of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) A question as well... Should I make it say 'ATARI' instead of 'TAITO'? Definitely TAITO. Having it say ATARI wouldn't make any kind of sense. ok, it will stay - I was just thinking that if this had been released 'back then' it would have said Atari on it, that's all. The start of the game is still a bit off. What's supposed to happen is that the invaders appear, then immediately start marching (but not firing), than after two "steps", the player ship appears. fixed. Also, the marching sound always seems to start with the second note in the sequence. Actually In regular Space Invaders it also starts with the second note! (at least in MAME it does) Thanks, and updated bin is here. Also, I hope to have this released on cart eventually. Edited July 24, 2008 by PacManPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) I took a second look, and I agree with you Trebor. I have changed the green.1) Colors (Trebor, please let me know if it's ok) 4) Added a fourth Color Scheme I like the green in the latest post a lot...I believe we have a keeper! Cool to see another color scheme too! -Trebor Edited July 15, 2008 by Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Yeah, I missed the green shades. here the FINAL corrected version. I compared them directly with the Color Demo running on my CC2 on real hardware. It won't get any closer without a X-Rite Calibrator and a colorimeter. Underball, thank you for continuing to look at this palette issue. Here's a screenshot using your latest palette with the latest Space Invader images from Bob (Post 182), color scheme 0: It still looks a little too yellow-ish, IMHO. I believe this is how the color is suppose to appear: Bob, could you please confirm which screenshot is closer to the color the shield and player's ship should appear? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Bob, could you please confirm which screenshot is closer to the color the shield and player's ship should appear? To me the bottom one looks closer as far as the shields shade go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Bob, could you please confirm which screenshot is closer to the color the shield and player's ship should appear? To me the bottom one looks closer as far as the shields shade go.. I agree...and I am presuming that is the color (Or very close to what) Bob sees on the 'real thing'. I am trying to figure out which matches closer to the real thing (AKA Atari 7800 connected to television). Both screen shots are from Post 182 images. The top one is using Underball's latest palette. The bottom is using the palette based off of the work done in Stella. Which ever one sticks closer to what Bob sees on the real deal is the palette I want to base my opinions on. -Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Bob, could you please confirm which screenshot is closer to the color the shield and player's ship should appear? To me the bottom one looks closer as far as the shields shade go.. I agree...and I am presuming that is the color (Or very close to what) Bob sees on the 'real thing'. I am trying to figure out which matches closer to the real thing (AKA Atari 7800 connected to television). Both screen shots are from Post 182 images. The top one is using Underball's latest palette. The bottom is using the palette based off of the work done in Stella. Which ever one sticks closer to what Bob sees on the real deal is the palette I want to base my opinions on. -Trebor Trebor - can you post this palette file that has the work done recently in Stella? I have a feeling the proper colors are somewhere between that one, and what I've been fiddling with. Your greens look good on the sheilds, but I got the value for "BB" looking right with Inky in Pac-Man collection. Now that I have the process for changing the values down fairly easily, It shouldn't be too hard to get it right. **NEVERMIND - duh - you posted it on the last page. It's defintely inbetween that one and the NaBuko. NaBuko's is too green on the BB and surrounding colors. the Stella one is a little too pastel, and the grass in Commando ends up being a sickly teal/aquamarine. Hopefully I can get a decent one by later today. Edited July 15, 2008 by Underball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Trebor - can you post this palette file that has the work done recently in Stella? I have a feeling the proper colors are somewhere between that one, and what I've been fiddling with. Your greens look good on the sheilds, but I got the value for "BB" looking right with Inky in Pac-Man collection. Now that I have the process for changing the values down fairly easily, It shouldn't be too hard to get it right. Not a problem...but, I do not know for sure if it is the definitive "green and/or blue" standard that should be set. Again, I just want to achieve the closest possible to what the 7800 and TV produces. Another thread should probably be started for this (Perhaps in the Emulation board) and have some other 7800 Experts chime in on it too. Nonetheless, attached is the "Stella-based" palette. new_stella_NTSC.zip As a side note...In all the palettes, Ms. Pac-Man's first and second board (to me) always appear too light of a red/pink from what i saw on the 7800 and my television (Currently, I do not have a 7800 hooked up to my TV - space constraints). This color issue I recall from way back when 7800 emulation was started (Dan Boris' emulator). Again, just my opinion, but take a look here - Servo's shots are pretty much dead-on from everything he post NTSC related. From my understanding his screenshots are directly from the system's themselves and not thru emulation: http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-7800/m...man/screenshots http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-7800/m...meShotId,55285/ Of course, the above just occurred to me as I've become use to only playing the far superior 'Pac-Man Collection' version of Ms. Pac-Man Regardless, It may be helpful to go through the other games he has posted for the 7800 to better fine tune any palette being utilized. -Trebor Edited July 15, 2008 by Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 *crossing fingers* I *think*, I may have finally gotten it about as perfect as it can get. greens look good. blues look good. none of the existing games look wonky. Inky looks good. Shields look good. test it and let me know. NTSC_test_palette.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 *crossing fingers* I *think*, I may have finally gotten it about as perfect as it can get. greens look good. blues look good. none of the existing games look wonky. Inky looks good. Shields look good. test it and let me know. It looks real good so far Underball. Probably the best palette yet from the few games I was able to quickly review... I am at work now. Although, Ms. Pac-Man's maze still appear too light Pink/Pastel and should be darker (Or at least more saturated) in color. -Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) on a real system it looks closer to the bottom one to me Edited July 15, 2008 by HammR25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 *crossing fingers* I *think*, I may have finally gotten it about as perfect as it can get. greens look good. blues look good. none of the existing games look wonky. Inky looks good. Shields look good. test it and let me know. It looks real good so far Underball. Probably the best palette yet from the few games I was able to quickly review... I am at work now. Although, Ms. Pac-Man's maze still appear too light Pink/Pastel and should be darker (Or at least more saturated) in color. -Trebor I'll have to check it against the real thing tonight. I'd never noticed Ms. Pac-Man's maze being that dark before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 umm..... Guys, can we start a new thread about ProSystem colors? I'm looking for any issues that have arisen since the last post, and all I see are posts about the colors on ProSystem In a related topic, ( ) I'll check on the 'new' green tonight when I get home. Thanks everyone! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) I'll have to check it against the real thing tonight. I'd never noticed Ms. Pac-Man's maze being that dark before. Possibly, it could just be my 7800. I do believe there is a "pot adjustment" for the 7800. And I do have one of the original (84) models with the full expansion port. The maze always appears deeper, darker, or/and more saturation than any of the palettes I have ever seen. From what I recall, the color is extremely similar to the snapshots on Mobygames by Servo (Posted earlier)....Just not as "red"...slightly more "pink". Which of course, all the above can be expected with the NTSC standard. Which is why I really would love to see an NTSC palette developed for Atari emulators, the same way it has been done for Sega and Nintendo systems. Regardless, like I said earlier from what I can initially see, your latest posted palette is the best that's out there. You should have it submitted to the ProSystem and MESS authors. -Trebor Edited July 15, 2008 by Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambler172 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hi Bob Great work.Works fine on my 7800 sytem. Cannot wait to get a cart.Let me know,when SI is available,so that i could pay immediately. greetings Walter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambler172 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hi Bob Great work.Works fine on my 7800 sytem. Cannot wait to get a cart.Let me know,when SI is available,so that i could pay immediately. greetings Walter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckirkman Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I would like to have this in cart form as well. Is there a list you are keeping of those who want to buy a cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Thanks guys There will be carts made, whether it be from me ot the AA store (probably both). ... Nobody found my little inclusion? I'll give a hint: The 'plain' attract mode isn't so plain after all... Please Activate Unit So Everyone can play. After you've 'activated' it, start a game. Edited July 15, 2008 by PacManPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Actually In regular Space Invaders it also starts with the second note! (at least in MAME it does) D'oh. Right you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'll have to check it against the real thing tonight. I'd never noticed Ms. Pac-Man's maze being that dark before. Possibly, it could just be my 7800. I do believe there is a "pot adjustment" for the 7800. And I do have one of the original (84) models with the full expansion port. The maze always appears deeper, darker, or/and more saturation than any of the palettes I have ever seen. From what I recall, the color is extremely similar to the snapshots on Mobygames by Servo (Posted earlier)....Just not as "red"...slightly more "pink". Which of course, all the above can be expected with the NTSC standard. Which is why I really would love to see an NTSC palette developed for Atari emulators, the same way it has been done for Sega and Nintendo systems. Regardless, like I said earlier from what I can initially see, your latest posted palette is the best that's out there. You should have it submitted to the ProSystem and MESS authors. -Trebor What I'm going to do tonight - is try to get a screen shot of the 7800 color demo from the real hardware/CC2 through the A/V port on my PC. That way I can open it in Photoshop and get the actual HEX values for each color bar from a real 7800, and then update them in the palette file. Up until now I've just been winging it, and going eyeballs only. Using the actual HEX values from a screenshot from a real 7800 with composite video out (like mine) might yield closer to perfect results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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