I lurk a bit, want to know whats the best solution for controllers nowadays

[bohoki]

Your best solution is a home-made or original redemption/masterplay device. Since I made one I use the 5200 all the time with sega pads.

 

 

I say your best solution is a home-made controller. If I had the time to get the custom parts manufacturing going and resolve my one major design concern, I'd be trying to sell you one. But since I don't and I haven't, I can't.

 

If you don't like any of the controllers that are available, you can always take the insane route and build your own. Here's a prototype of one design I came up with. You might be surprised how possible it is to design and build your own with a little research, some basic tools and a lot of spare time:

 

yea building your own is really cool

 

i just realized in my franken controller i actually unwitingly used a starcon control pad

 

 

 

 

[atariksi]

Your best solution is a home-made or original redemption/masterplay device. Since I made one I use the 5200 all the time with sega pads.

 

 

I say your best solution is a home-made controller. If I had the time to get the custom parts manufacturing going and resolve my one major design concern, I'd be trying to sell you one. But since I don't and I haven't, I can't.

 

If you don't like any of the controllers that are available, you can always take the insane route and build your own. Here's a prototype of one design I came up with. You might be surprised how possible it is to design and build your own with a little research, some basic tools and a lot of spare time:

 

yea building your own is really cool

 

i just realized in my franken controller i actually unwitingly used a starcon control pad

 

 

 

 

 

They look good. What was your cost to make these?

[bohoki]

They look good. What was your cost to make these?

 

 

wow i couldnt hazzard a guess since i had a lot of stuff by being lucky

 

but i'll try to itemize

 

d15 pin f .50cents

little buttons for start pause reset 50 cents each (surplus electronic store)

8 conductor cable 6 foot x 2 ?

crane game joystick ? got in a control panel lot when i made an arcade cabinet

http://www.twobits.com/parts/parts6.html

or try ebay (i only used this because i only had this project box and a regular arcade joystick wouldn't fit

project box $1.50

 

number pad this one is weird i got this from an ebayer about 8 years ago when i bought some buttons maybe he had a bunch of starcon parts casue the buttons i bought were red and green it was free with a few buttons if i didnt have that i would have wired an adapter to use my 2600 star raiders pad

 

(my next project is a y adapter to use a set of 2600 paddles and a star raiders pad with the 5200 but i am debating to put a shift button on the y to change a row of the pad to start,pause,reset or just put 3 buttons on the y adapter to do the same thing

it will end up only useful in kaboom,superbreakout,space invaders,galaxian,megamania gorf id i dont want to move that one inch up and down maybe pole position if i can use my feet like a monkey and mario brothers )

 

 

hmm the 2 blue candy shaped buttons were from a really early nintendo amusement that were free when i bought the coin door

 

the potentiometers were the most expensice item at $4 each i could have used 2600 paddle pots but i didnt want to wreck a paddle and all my paddles are jittery anyway

 

potentiometer knobs 50 cents each

 

six zip ties to hold the 2 wires together ? 25 cents maybe

 

aproxamatly 1 foot of solder since i had to wire and unwire it about 3 times

 

there is no special gimmics inside every component is visible

Edited November 1, 2008 by bohoki

[BigO]

I think you could do a digital controller with only normally open push buttons and passive components. Referencing bohoki's schematic, the button on the left (normally open switch) and the pot would be wired just as he show. Another N.O. pushbutton switch in series with a capacitor would be connected between ground (pin 15) and pin 11/12.

 

When the switch is closed it will put the capacitor in parallel with the console's internal capacitor thus increasing the capacitance which will in turn cause the charge cycle to be longer which is also what happens when the resistance increases in a normal controller. This is the principle that makes it possible to adapt a PC joystick for use with a 5200.

 

In bohoki's schematic, this charge time increase is implemented with the N.C. switch which opens and removes the short across the two terminals of the pot which in turn increases the total resistance seen by the charging circuit.

 

I haven't tried this so I can't say what value would work for the cap (or if it will in fact work at all. I may have missed something obvious as I often do). I have used .22uF and .47uF caps with my adaptations so I'd start there to see what happens.

 

I haven't tried it because when I came up with this, I was trying to see if I could build an adapter with all passive components for using a 2600 joystick on the 5200. I quickly figured out that won't work (without modifying the controller) because the design I propose can't have a common connection between the switches and all 4 of the switches share a common line in the stock 2600 controller. I've been thinking of trying it with an arcade joystick I have sitting around somewhere but have too many projects going right now.

Edited November 2, 2008 by BigO

[+Mitch]

Have you seen this? http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/gen_2_5200_adap.html

 

Mitch

[bohoki]

hey that is smart using a capacitor

 

ive been trying to just use really basic components i also made an altoid controller using pushbuttons and 270k resistors and it works fine for pac-man-digdug,wizard of war

 

but my goal is to make an adapter that doesnt use a chip to do the job of the nc switch

 

so i may try for right and down had a switch ad a capacitance value (47microfarads sounds pretty good to me to double the rc circuit making it believe it has more resistance but i need to do some experimentin

 

 

 

i used pots for centering purposes obviously

 

but it is pretty rock solid at being 250k for center just a couple resistors equalling that would work the biggest pain is that nc switches kind of suck they never have the feel of no buttons

using cherry microswitches is pretty good but still it would be cool to use a leaf switch joy

 

 

also the idea to use a 2600 keypad and paddles would look like this

 

5200--------------------------------------------------------- 2600 9 pin male plug for keypad

1. Keypad right column (3, 6, 9, #)---------------------------------- 6

2. Keypad middle column (2, 5, 8, 0)-------------------------------- 9

3. Keypad left column (1, 4, 7, *)-------------------------------------5

4. Start, Pause and Reset column-------------------------------------?

5. Keypad third row (7, 8, 9) and Reset------------------------------3

6. Keypad second row (4, 5, 6) and Pause---------------------------2

7. Keypad top row (1, 2, 3) and Start---------------------------------1

8. Keypad bottom row (*, 0, #)---------------------------------------4---2600 9 pin male for paddles

9. Pot common---------------------------------------------------------------------------7

10. Horizontal Pot-------------------------------------------------------------------------5

11. Vertical Pot----------------------------------------------------------------------------9

12. +5VDC

13. Bottom side buttons-------------------------------------------------------------------4

14. Top side buttons-----------------------------------------------------------------------3

15. 0V (GND)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------8

 

i would add a switch to change pins 4 and 3 in case the game wanted top button or bottom (super breakout serves with the bottom button so you would want that with the horizontal paddle)

 

also to be able to start i would probably just use the middle column(since most games just use the #* for options) and hook 2600 keypad pin 9 to 5200 pin 2

Edited November 2, 2008 by bohoki

[BigO]

Have you seen this? http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/gen_2_5200_adap.html

 

Mitch

I have, thanks. It's a good, relatively simple solution. I was in the mode of using caps and such in my mods and custom controllers and had nearly convinced myself that there just had to be an all passive solution for the 2600->5200 adapter. There isn't, at least not without internal modifications to the controller.

 

I realized that while it couldn't be done with an unmodified 2600 joystick, a no-chips digital joystick using regular ol' N.O. pushbuttons for the 5200 very likely could be done.

 

I never found any evidence that anyone else has tried the proposed scheme. I'm fairly certain it will work . A very appealing part of this is that the elimination of the need for a N.C. switch means that pushbutton controllers of most any sort can be modified slightly to work as a 5200 digital controller. There wouldn't be a need for chips, expensive arcade controllers or cheapo pushbutton N.C. switches that don't have the right touch for gaming.

 

Instead of using an external potentiometer, the 5200 controller itself could serve to provide the "middle" resistance. The normally open switches would allow a D-pad to theoretically be integrated i.e. connected permanently into the 5200 controller and either the digital or analog control could be used. Unless you pushed on the d-pad, it wouldn't interfere with the analog stick. Though, it might be difficult to shoehorn a d-pad into a 5200 controller. Maybe on the back side?

 

One could also install a connector and hook up the digital control pad external to the 5200 controller. At a quick glance, I think it should take 4 pins to implement the directional control (9, 10, 11, 15) and 2 more to implement the 2 fire buttons (13, 14).

 

If somebody tries it, please post your results.

[BigO]

 

That's not quite what I was thinking. I'm thinking the extra cap (in series with the switch) will connect between 11, 15 and 10, 15.

 

Let us know how your experiments work out.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also, I think it might be risky to short that resistance to zero (in the circuit as I've described it). In doing so, you're applying the charging current directly to the internal capacitor. When the inner workings of the console try to discharge the cap by bringing the positive end to zero, you could theoretically exceed the current sinking capability of the discharge circuit or the sourcing capability of the charging circuit.

 

This is probably all protected within the console circuitry, but I'd rather spend the dime on one more resistor to be sure.

Edited November 2, 2008 by BigO

[bohoki]

 

That's not quite what I was thinking. I'm thinking the extra cap (in series with the switch) will connect between 11, 15 and 10, 15.

 

Let us know how your experiments work out.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also, I think it might be risky to short that resistance to zero (in the circuit as I've described it). In doing so, you're applying the charging current directly to the internal capacitor. When the inner workings of the console try to discharge the cap by bringing the positive end to zero, you could theoretically exceed the current sinking capability of the discharge circuit or the sourcing capability of the charging circuit.

 

This is probably all protected within the console circuitry, but I'd rather spend the dime on one more resistor to be sure.

 

 

hmm thanks for the heads up i figured if its using a pot it is variable from 0-500k i think i'll put a safety resistor

 

ive been shorting it for up and left but i may be playing with fire

 

 

your idea of using a controller for your center resistance is a bit crazy as the sticks are not self centering so if you breath on the stick it will be heading a bit in one of the directions

 

the dang paddles have the problem of jitteryness the super awesome pots in the 5200 ive never seen any jitter

 

so my idea of using paddles is probabbly goona piss me off as all 4 sets of paddles i have have a case of the jitters

 

now if there was some way i coudl get the driving controller to work with gyruss

 

ps that scematic i drew up wont work worth squat it was a quickie without any thought of course i was kinda kidin about the 100uf cap

Edited November 2, 2008 by bohoki

[uosipa llamxew]

Hey, looks like someone made my Altoids controller idea a reality! Now I'll have to think of something else to use when I'm ready to start my own tiny controller project... an NES joypad seems like the ideal candidate.

 

Why not mix the two? Here's a NES gamepad / mint tin!

 

 

[Prodos8]

Have you seen this? http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/gen_2_5200_adap.html

 

Mitch

That adapter is awesome!

 

There's also an earlier one the Jay Tilton designed that's easier to build and doesn't use ICs, plus it works just about as well in my eperience. I can't remember were I found it on the web, but I drew up a schematic for it myself and have built a few.

 

 

Of course the controller must be grounded and the fire button connected (not shown) as well.

[bohoki]

hmm is its theory of operation to ground right and down thereby confusing the internal rc ciruit into thinkging it is taking a long time to recharge so thereby the resistance must be huge?

 

 

and the reason for the pnp transistors is to isolate the v and h from each other its basically a convertor for using atari 2600 or arcade jamma controls that have every button go to ground

 

but if each button is isolated from ground do they need to be there?

 

 

i'm going to try this out when i get soem more parts feel free to try it

Edited November 4, 2008 by bohoki

[BigO]

Have you seen this? http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/gen_2_5200_adap.html

 

Mitch

That adapter is awesome!

 

There's also an earlier one the Jay Tilton designed that's easier to build and doesn't use ICs, plus it works just about as well in my eperience. I can't remember were I found it on the web, but I drew up a schematic for it myself and have built a few.

 

 

Of course the controller must be grounded and the fire button connected (not shown) as well.

 

 

hmm is its theory of operation to ground right and down thereby confusing the internal rc ciruit into thinkging it is taking a long time to recharge so thereby the resistance must be huge?

 

That does make sense. Applied to my digital controller suggestion, this method should stop the internal cap from charging at all, thus having the same effect as a huge resistance or cap. I remember reading somewhere (I think maybe it was a homebrew "Masterplay"...Prodos8?) that the console or some games didn't like using an open for that resistance so I imagine that this scheme might suffer the same fate.

 

As long as games don't have trouble with the maxed out value of that counter, this could simplify the method I proposed earlier. The cap wouldn't be necessary. The button would just connect the output line to ground.

Edited November 3, 2008 by BigO

[Kong]

I don't have the skills by any means, but I always thought that the Atari Jaguar controller would be a great case for a 5200 controller. If somehow you could shoehorn in a N64 or PS1 analog stick instead of the crosspad, it would be even better. Project anyone??