Shipment to Belgium, buyer opened a dispute on me?

[MrRetroGamer]

Is there anything special I should know about shipments to Belgium? I've never had a problem with small envelope shipments internationally, but I've just had a buyer go to paypal without contacting me and file a non-receipt dispute. Does Belgium have strict customs issues over there? I shipped the item by USPS AIRMAIL in a small envelope that was about 6 ounces. I put the proper amount of stamps on it and sent it on it's way. I've never had a problem like this before, and the buyer went straight to paypal instead of contacting me first.

[Albert]

What did the dispute say? Item not received? Not as described? Something else?

 

..Al

[MrRetroGamer]

What did the dispute say? Item not received? Not as described? Something else?

 

..Al

 

 

Non receipt of item.

[holygrailvideogames.com]

I only use Express Mail when shipping Internationally because if you use any other method PayPal will rule in favor of the buyer if a dispute is opened for item not received.

 

How long ago did you send it? Maybe it will still arrive and you will have an honest buyer who will contact PayPal.

Edited November 14, 2008 by holygrailvideogames.com

[MrRetroGamer]

I only use Express Mail when shipping Internationally because if you use any other method PayPal will rule in favor of the buyer if a dispute is opened for item not received.

 

How long ago did you send it? Maybe it will still arrive and you will have an honest buyer who will contact PayPal.

 

It's been almost a month since the auction ended, and I sent the item within the next day or two after that. What gets me is that the buyer didn't bother to contact me first about this and establish any kind of dialog. I've been on eBay for 8 years and my feedback is pretty representative of the way I do business there. I'm dealing with a new buyer who has been on eBay for less than 1 year and perhaps they don't understand things like customs delays. Over the years I've had more than my share of nervous and impatient buyers, but I have been able to explain that the United States Post Office is responsible for their delay, not me, and it always turned out with an email saying that they finally got the item and I really did send it out when I said it did.

 

I know there have been numerous threads here over the years about international shipping pros and cons. I never had a problem with this before, but now if I don't have a leg to stand on in Paypals eyes because the buyer had a Non-US Unverified address, I won't be sending things outside of the USA in the future. It's bad enough that eBay had basically put me out of business with their high fees on small dollar items, so that they end up making more on every item I sell then I do. I think it may be time to just pack it in for good, I'm so disgusted right now.

Edited November 14, 2008 by MrRetroGamer

[Albert]

Makes me a bit suspicious that the seller immediately went for the PayPal dispute without contacting you first. If someone isn't willing to talk to me in good faith over something like this, I have to assume they are trying to screw me, knowing there's little I can do to prevent it.

 

I know there have been numerous threads here over the years about international shipping pros and cons. I never had a problem with this before, but now if I don't have a leg to stand on in Paypals eyes because the buyer had a Non-US Unverified address, I won't be sending things outside of the USA in the future. It's bad enough that eBay had basically put me out of business with their high fees on small dollar items, so that they end up making more on every item I sell then I do. I think it may be time to just pack it in for good, I so disgusted right now.

Yeah, international selling can be a crapshot. It's certainly a risk doing business with international buyers, as it's not too hard to screw someone via PayPal if the buyer doesn't use a trackable shipping method (such as EMS). International Priority Mail has tracking now, although I'm not sure how reliable it is. I just checked a package I sent out on October 23rd, and here's the tracking info:

 

Label/Receipt Number: CJ21 7520 955U S

Detailed Results:

 

- Attempted Delivery Abroad, November 03, 2008, 2:32 pm, CANADA

- Attempted Delivery Abroad, November 03, 2008, 1:28 pm, CANADA

- At Foreign Delivery Unit, November 03, 2008, 7:49 am, CANADA

- Out of Foreign Customs, October 30, 2008, 9:08 am, CANADA

- Into Foreign Customs, October 27, 2008, 7:46 am, CANADA

- Arrived Abroad, October 27, 2008, 7:46 am, CANADA

- International Dispatch, October 26, 2008, 2:57 am, ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)

- Electronic Shipping Info Received, October 23, 2008

This should be good enough for PayPal, assuming you sent the package to a verified address (although I believe PayPal is changing this so verified addresses are no longer required). Still, International Priority Mail is quite expensive, especially for lower-dollar items.

 

I've personally been burned a few times via international buyers and PayPal..

 

..Al

[lucifershalo]

I am in belgium

and I never had a lost package

in case of problems, I always talk with the guy before filing a complaint

belgium doesnt have any particular customs policy , they don't hold international packages

they could delay a package by a couple of day to apply an entry tax but it is never long

I am sorry it happened to you

but please it is not because one is a moron that you have to stop shipping internationally

I am always annoyed (even if I can understand) when buyers dont want to ship outside of USA and I lost some items like that

a couple of dishonest guys are screwing international deals............

[Christophero Sly]

What gets me is that the buyer didn't bother to contact me first about this and establish any kind of dialog.

Makes me a bit suspicious that the seller immediately went for the PayPal dispute without contacting you first. If someone isn't willing to talk to me in good faith over something like this, I have to assume they are trying to screw me, knowing there's little I can do to prevent it.

Actually, that's probably exactly what he's attempting to do. He's following the official Paypal process for handling buyer/seller disputes. Remember, filling a dispute with Paypal is a 2-part process. The first part is designed to facilitate the type of dialog that you're requesting. If the two of you are unable to resolve the dispute through official Paypal channels, he can then escalate the dispute to a claim and try to get his money back. I think you have close to 3 weeks to work something out with him before he has to decide whether or not to escalate the dispute, so, at this point, I don't think it's necessary to overreact.

[MrRetroGamer]

What gets me is that the buyer didn't bother to contact me first about this and establish any kind of dialog.

Makes me a bit suspicious that the seller immediately went for the PayPal dispute without contacting you first. If someone isn't willing to talk to me in good faith over something like this, I have to assume they are trying to screw me, knowing there's little I can do to prevent it.

Actually, that's probably exactly what he's attempting to do. He's following the official Paypal process for handling buyer/seller disputes. Remember, filling a dispute with Paypal is a 2-part process. The first part is designed to facilitate the type of dialog that you're requesting. If the two of you are unable to resolve the dispute through official Paypal channels, he can then escalate the dispute to a claim and try to get his money back. I think you have close to 3 weeks to work something out with him before he has to decide whether or not to escalate the dispute, so, at this point, I don't think it's necessary to overreact.

 

I think that standard policy is to CONTACT THE SELLER DIRECTLY if you have a problem. I don't need any problems with Paypal f***ing around with my account if it's not necessary. And from my end it's not a dispute, there is no dispute that I sent the item, I've never screwed over anyone that I've done business with EVER, PERIOD. And with MY FEEDBACK, any reasonable person could see that. Plus the item I sent can be replaced, so I really feel that I was blindsided with this dispute at this point. I could have easily put a duplicate item in the mail had I been contacted properly, but at this point I would not be willing to go the extra mile. I'm out the product and will be out the money in due time. For me it's a LOSE LOSE situation.

[Frostbite Bailey]

Life's a bitch In all seriousness though, I am totally in agreement with you. Contacting the seller is the number one way to go; most of these issues I have been involved in people just jump the gun and presume the worst. If you are shipping internationally people just have to have patience, a virtue sought by many by held by few. Your feedback speaks for itself and unfortunately some people just do not take the time to email the seller and try to sort things out. 99% of the time this has worked for me as a buyer and a seller. I have waited for up to 2 months for things to come from Australia to Canada via Sea Mail, slow, but usually reliable If all else fails, find a Belgium friend to go to the sellers house and ... Cheers, Fb

[Christophero Sly]

I think that standard policy is to CONTACT THE SELLER DIRECTLY if you have a problem. I don't need any problems with Paypal f***ing around with my account if it's not necessary. And from my end it's not a dispute, there is no dispute that I sent the item, I've never screwed over anyone that I've done business with EVER, PERIOD. And with MY FEEDBACK, any reasonable person could see that. Plus the item I sent can be replaced, so I really feel that I was blindsided with this dispute at this point. I could have easily put a duplicate item in the mail had I been contacted properly, but at this point I would not be willing to go the extra mile. I'm out the product and will be out the money in due time. For me it's a LOSE LOSE situation.

There's no need to yell at me. I'm not trying to upset you. I'm just trying to help you see that this buyer's intentions are not necessarily malicious. I'm entirely sympathetic to your situation, but it remains that you were contacted "properly". Opening a dispute is the first of a two-pronged official Paypal process for resolving these sorts of issues. You may have preferred an alternate course of events, but I don't see how you can blame a buyer for following the established procedures and rules that Paypal has set forth. I really don't think that the negative posture you're adopting towards the situation is necessary at this point in time. I would at least attempt to work within the established dispute resolution framework before concluding that all is lost.

 

... just my 2¢

 

Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.

[Frostbite Bailey]

Yes, this is a good point Christophero Sly. I think he was just slighted the the seller did not contact him first through other means. The buyer did indeed follow standard procedure, but for most of us direct contact is preferred, but then again when it is a international transaction there may be language barriers among other issues. I certainly hope this works out. Cheers, FB

Edited November 15, 2008 by Frostbite Bailey

[MrRetroGamer]

There's no need to yell at me. I'm not trying to upset you.... I would at least attempt to work within the established dispute resolution framework before concluding that all is lost.

 

... just my 2¢

 

I'm not yelling at you, sorry if it came across as such. The framework sucks because even as an honest seller, I don't have a leg to stand on since I chose to ship to an unverified NON-US address. Once the package leaves my hand what else am I supposed to do about it?? That's all paypal wants to know. After 8 years and after all the money paypal has taken from me, it doesn't make any difference to them. They have already put a hold on those funds in my account without any contact to me prior to this. I guess it's assumed guilty until proven innocent. This is why good sellers change their policies about things like this, because each time is like a crapshoot.

 

Edit: It also does not appear this buyer has made many transactions with sellers in the USA based on his received and left feedback, so they may not fully understand what can happen to packages from international destinations.

Edited November 15, 2008 by MrRetroGamer

[Frostbite Bailey]

Edit: It also does not appear this buyer has made many transactions with sellers in the USA based on his received and left feedback, so they may not fully understand what can happen to packages from international destinations.

Exactly my point, and this is unfortunate for you. Again patience is a wonderful thing