+Stephen Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Just for you Pete Commodore Girls http://www.dickestel.com/images/expo305.jpg Atari girls http://www.e3girls.com/subview.cfm?photoid=1288&type=companyyear&query=47&company=47&year=6 In this case, Commodore clearly takes the win! Stephen Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Just waiting for the next round of god awful Pics to ruin the tranquillity... Pete As you wish, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 15 - KICK OFF C64 C64 C64 The C64 has better graphics, animation and playbality. The graphics on Atari is horrible and ...... hmm.... confusing ? Well, when the ball looks like a square stone and players resemble dimmers, it's utterly confusing C64 is better again ATARI ATARI ATARI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm still looking at the women C64 wins I think, but there's something about that little Atari cheerleader mmmmmm Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The C64 has better graphics, animation and playbality. The graphics on Atari is horrible and ...... hmm.... confusing ? Well, when the ball looks like a square stone and players resemble dimmers, it's utterly confusing C64 is better again "]ATARI[/color] To be fair, they appear to be different games.. The Atari one is clearly 2 a side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 More sexy pics for you Atari http://www.coig.net/nasioc/atari800xl.jpg Are you the Best one http://www.1000bit.net/lista/dati/atari/1200xl/atari1200xl.jpg Are you the best one Commodore http://www.webs4u.co.nz/museum/c64c.jpg Are you the best one http://webs4u.co.nz/museum/c64.jpg Are you the best one Tough choice, but this is what it boils down to, which one do you love most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 No that's utter rubbish because he doesn't, certainly not from someone who wouldn't have actually been a customer (unless you're telling me you paid money for Codemasters games on the C128 you owned for was it fourteen days?) and i'll say it again just for emphasis, a lot of what Ste did in the past and his work on Fist now was and is for the love of it and not for money. It's just that someone decided he was good and that they'd pay him to do more. Is all this bitterness on your part because nobody offered you a job back then or something? It's as simple as it can be. I just liked the A8 back in the 80s for having a good computer at home... for playing games, learning programming , and doing home business stuff there. But, just by the fact that no one offered the missing games, like Test Drive and similar ones missed a (good) port on the A8, made things apparent. Those 14 days were enough to have it also cleared where the C64 had it's strength and where the A8 had it's strengh. Games like Test Drive would have been "games" on the A8, not interactive slideshows as on the C64. Job? I had my fulltime job, so there was no need for an additional one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Everything is streamed-- the video (bunch of frames at 8000 bytes each), the audio, and in some cases the code (for loading extra routines if needed). However, audio is highest priority. PC send and Atari receive is not synchronized because PC has to read from CDROM which is slower than playing back a sample of audio on Atari. So audio gets queued until it's time to be played by the Audio IRQ. So you start interupts on Atari at 11025 Hz and just prey to gods that pc will send data at same rate ? No sync pulse, no start stop bits - nothing ? I guess its not a big deal if you skip one audio sample or play one twice... Just a stream of nibles ? Or sometimes 4bits, sometimes 8 bits ? I guess you have some markers like few specific bytes to decide if incoming data is picture or sound or program ? ... There's no synchronization as far as playing back samples and displaying frames. Target machine has to take care of the timing. (Target machine doesn't have to be Atari since this also works on various Amigas as well). PC basically asks Atari if there's room in it's audio queue and then transmits audio data; if there's no room in the queue, it transmits other data (video, code, etc.). Since it'll never go past the frame rate PC does, Atari only gets a few frames (whatever it can squeeze in idle time). Actually, it's a stream of bytes to preserve memory (two nibbles are packed and put in audio queue and unpacked when playing them back). There's another version that uses two joystick ports to send byte at a time to speed up that but that won't work on C64. If you disable screen and leave only sprites you still have to multiplex them (that is not such a problem - you have one LDA and 9 STA to do in 21 scanlines) but they do steal 17 cpu cycles every scanline from CPU. Normal scan line, 8 sprites 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012 cycles ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggrrrrr pspspspspspspsps phi-1 VIC ssssssssssssssss phi-2 VIC xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxXXX phi-2 6510 46-49 cycles available g= grafix data fetch (character images or graphics data) r= refresh p= sprite image pointer fetch c= character and color CODE fetch during a bad scan line s= sprite data fetch x= processor executing instructions X= processor executing an instruction, bus request pending So instead of 40 cycles stolen every 8th line, you get 16-17 cycles stolen every line and sprites can cover only 96 4color multicolor pixel wide area... 24 chars... Oo you could get same resolution as GTIA with 7 sprites double expanded in x direction but only in 4 colors. 25x40 cycles stolen seams better than 160x16 to me... Well, it doesn't work that way. If you are using an audio IRQ and get a latency of 40+ cycles on one IRQ and around 0 cycles on the next that's worse than getting 17 cycles vs. 0 cycles. It's the delta that makes the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Those 14 days were enough to have it also cleared where the C64 had it's strength and where the... Blah blah, here we go again... that wasn't the point of me mentioning it in the slightest was it? i'll just remind you (since the part where i quoted your previous post appears to have escaped your attention, although how you can forget what you said less than 24 hours ago escapes me) that you said that "when you get money for your production, you lose all right to protect it from an official customer statement" to Ste; i was pointing out that, even if that weren't absolute and utter bilge to start with, in the mere fourteen days you owned a C64 you could hardly be considered a customer to be reviewing his work. Job? I had my fulltime job, so there was no need for an additional one. So why on Earth are you so bitter whenever someone comes along with a bit of industry experience? Don't say "because they didn't support the A8" or whatever because we've covered that ground, you were there and didn't support it either it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The C64 has better graphics, animation and playbality. The graphics on Atari is horrible and ...... hmm.... confusing ? Well, when the ball looks like a square stone and players resemble dimmers, it's utterly confusing C64 is better again "]ATARI[/color] To be fair, they appear to be different games.. The Atari one is clearly 2 a side Two versus three in the first screenshot... that seems a little unfair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Two versus three in the first screenshot... that seems a little unfair! Ah.. So I guess at half time the teams swap Player5 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 15 - KICK OFF C64 C64 C64 The C64 has better graphics, animation and playbality. The graphics on Atari is horrible and ...... hmm.... confusing ? Well, when the ball looks like a square stone and players resemble dimmers, it's utterly confusing C64 is better again ATARI ATARI ATARI Another post 1985 pics with no progamming budget on Atari... A poor comparison. I'll wait for Allas to give a more comparable pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthPole(heeHAW) Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 More sexy pics for you Atari http://www.coig.net/nasioc/atari800xl.jpg Are you the Best one http://www.1000bit.net/lista/dati/atari/1200xl/atari1200xl.jpg Are you the best one Commodore http://www.webs4u.co.nz/museum/c64c.jpg Are you the best one http://webs4u.co.nz/museum/c64.jpg Are you the best one Tough choice, but this is what it boils down to, which one do you love most Has this become a portal for women? It seems odd... I'm on my holidays after all... Please could you post circuit boards of c64 and the A8 ONLY???? We can then compare and argue over the size of the chips..... and perhaps maybe a little 'chip heat' analysis. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 and perhaps maybe a little 'chip heat' analysis. "Phwoar, look at the heat sink on that!"... =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 by jove we have some colour! a bit bit heavy on the yellow i will grant you, but definitely C_O_L_O_U_R and not M_O_N_O_C_H_R_O_M_E makes a nice change from the CGA and hercules greenscreen monitor emulations that are so prevalent on the a8. sooo, if u can do this then maybe myth or ghosts n goblins? shame on u all for not trying them Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) ..... Well, it doesn't work that way. If you are using an audio IRQ and get a latency of 40+ cycles on one IRQ and around 0 cycles on the next that's worse than getting 17 cycles vs. 0 cycles. It's the delta that makes the difference. After some heavy calculation (using OpenOffice Calc ) I came to this: With simple multicolor (4 colors 160x200) screen: If you make routine that plays one sample every 90 cpu cycles (10920 Hz) and set them up on special offset compared to beginning of first bad line you get this: Sample playback falls onto 22th cycle in a bad line on 58,98,138,178 and 218 scanline (that is 5 samples that can not be played properly - or could be played with offset of 18 cycles). Sample playback falls onto 40th or 58th cycle in a bad line on 66,82,106,122,146,162,186,202,226 and 242 scanline (those are 10 samples that must be played on a badline, but there is enough time for that.) All the remaining sample playing points fall either outside screen area or not on a badline... So you get only 5x50 samples not played (or played later - in that case maybe an average of that sample and the next one could be played to minimize difference (but I think SID chip would make that transition smooth)) wich is 1 in 43 samples wrong.... I think it wouldn't be easy to notice... Even then a test could be done easily. In case of sprite layer: 40 samples wouldn't be able to play (and that is with offset 18 or 9 cycles equally). That is 8 times more wrong points in time = 8 in 43 samples wrong... It would be at least 8 times more noticeable .... Again.. test could prove it true or false... Again, Im not in favor of sprite layer because of smaller size of picture that you can achieve... Edited September 14, 2009 by popmilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name=' Has this become a portal for women? It seems odd... I'm on my holidays after all... Please could you post circuit boards of c64 and the A8 ONLY???? We can then compare and argue over the size of the chips..... and perhaps maybe a little 'chip heat' analysis. A Just for you... Commodore http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/Image:C64motherboard.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/C64Cmotherboard.jpg Atari http://www.atarimax.com/warpos/documentation/install_guides/install1200xl.php http://www.sothius.com/hypertxt/welcome.html?atari800xl.html Edited September 14, 2009 by carmel_andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthPole(heeHAW) Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 and perhaps maybe a little 'chip heat' analysis. "Phwoar, look at the heat sink on that!"... =-) oooooooo, perhaps a bit of 'Hotchip' would be in order.... Who can make the processor the hottest? I 'reckon' STE'86 has some hot GFX stuff under his belt...BMX SIM loading screen was well good..... THAT'S HOT!!! Shame about the game........ But, can't ALL be as cool me! A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Just for you Pete Commodore Girls http://www.dickestel.com/images/expo305.jpg Atari girls http://www.e3girls.com/subview.cfm?photoid=1288&type=companyyear&query=47&company=47&year=6 In this case, Commodore clearly takes the win! Stephen Anderson I'm sure any of those girls can't load a game on a real C64. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 and perhaps maybe a little 'chip heat' analysis. "Phwoar, look at the heat sink on that!"... =-) Look at the legs on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 or, sex dripping from every byte/chip etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 In case of sprite layer: 40 samples wouldn't be able to play (and that is with offset 18 or 9 cycles equally). That is 8 times more wrong points in time = 8 in 43 samples wrong... [scratches head] i haven't fully been paying attention (had a few things on my plate the last three days or so) but if the sample playback is on NMI instead it'd get priority over the works if the screen is off... the splitting of the sprite data pointers and the stuff for splitting the sprite data pointers just has to be within about a quarter of a scanline as far as accuracy goes (the Hyperscreen has about a scanline of "wobble" distance too, give or take). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 So why on Earth are you so bitter whenever someone comes along with a bit of industry experience? Don't say "because they didn't support the A8" or whatever because we've covered that ground, you were there and didn't support it either it seems. Your logics are still interesting. As I told you several times before, I had nothing to do with producing computer stuff in any way. I also didn't know people who could teach me such. It was only the interest and the spare time that made it possible to learn from computer magazines and to create own stuff. It's the same everywhere: If you're related to some experience by default, you can go further into that direction. If you have people around, aiding your needs, you can go even more there... Today you easily can get everything needed from the internet, you can ask people for some aid , and so on. Seeing how slow even today, with all knowledge from the internet, progress happens, and thinking back to the 80's , I must have done something impossible there. -No relation to computer productions -No people supporting my progress -No Internet -Just learning from books and computer magazines -writing computer programs in Basic , and later with added assembler.... -winning a contest (even if a small one) ... in my spare time and with a fulltime job in the real life... So, please, don't tell ME I wasn't supporting the A8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) by jove we have some colour! You haven't seen Henry's House yet? Edited September 15, 2009 by emkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts