TMR Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 What a stupid analogy. Of course we don't need to crash a car into a wall to see what happens, but that's because we've seen the results enough times to be able to work from that knowledge; in the case of copying data around, the CPU on the A8 isn't even twice the speed of the C64 so your guess that it'd somehow be able to refresh things four times faster is the equivalent of expecting the car to burst into song. Well, 60Hz Ataris ARE 3 times faster in RoF than the C64. RoF is bound on vertical sync on the A8 , while it runs free on the CPU on the C64. Changing this fact will make RoF on the A8 even quite faster. Using the more freed cycles of the PAL A8, will result in ~25% speedup aswell. As you've been repeatedly told, that "logic" simply doesn't work; RoF was based around the A8 hardware and runs in half the vertical resolution of the C64; yes the C64 is slower, but that is in part because it's also dealing with twice the screen data compared to the A8 so the relative speeds of the two have precisely sod all bearing on anything else and it's getting close to not even comparing like for like. You're not actually talking about porting Hard Drivin' because you've started wandering off into fantasy land about rendering in different, significantly lower resolutions (good luck on converting it, by the way...) and that'd be a substantially different game so it's not comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Yup, Hard Drivin' is piss poor... but i don't remember anyone arguing that everything on the C64 was good and there's not even an A8 version to compare it to - considering your opinion of A8 programmers, the odds are it would've been equally pants had they done a port. Wow - it sure does. Wasn't even aware of that port. But did anyone take notice that an Atari company programmed it? One could make a joke about how all the things are missing because they were used to programming & porting arcade games to the A8 and ST lol Just kidding, just kidding - no need to get your undies in a bunch. But hell, they sure did a shite job of porting S.T.U.N. Runner to the Amiga, didn't they? No excuse for the "slideshow" gameplay there. Anyway, my observations on the A8 (and I realise quite where I am thank you, and no - I do not play with emulators as someone tried to guess - oh and yes, I'm quite aware of the "poor mans" mass produced penetration M.O. of the C64) and C64 are non-technical and very simplistic after having only played comparable games for a few minutes each after all these years. In the past, I've owned more A8 Atari stuff than 8-bit Commodore and for greater lengths of time. There is just a different 'feel' between the two systems as there should be - they're different! I honestly like both for different reasons. Having a very strong arcade playing, service and repair background - right now, I'm just preferring the look and feel of most arcade ports of the C64 to the A8 is all. I should qualify that though: after a game is finally loaded into the C64 that is lol The talk about screen modes is interesting as is the technical background of the collision detection. Someone here has already defined technically what I "feel" about the CD above and ironic that A8 could have better CD if more of the games had been programmed more like the C64 that way. In any event, at the end of the computing day, A8 technology kicks arse for what it is and was (I'm not ditching my 8-bits). But it was '77-'79 technology. Much of the C64 technology was '81-'83. Pros and cons going on for both for sure. Edited October 6, 2009 by save2600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... Ah, so you feel that because i dared to disagree with you that makes me "really unknowledgeable"... not much ego going on there, then. Not just those unknowledgeable replies you gave me, but in general, towards others. As for my ego, I know, isn't it swell? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yeah. Nicely sized and healthy Frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yeah. Nicely sized and healthy Frenchman Is anyone else being reminded of a hot air balloon...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... Ah, so you feel that because i dared to disagree with you that makes me "really unknowledgeable"... not much ego going on there, then. Not just those unknowledgeable replies you gave me, but in general, towards others. As for my ego, I know, isn't it swell? seems fine to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 An Italian singer (leader of group Bluvertigo) in the September 2009 issue of Vanity Fair. Notice the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I had a thought about Rybag's 480i mode. I'm NOT parroting the following speculation as fact. I'm wondering if it is possible. In 480i, the A8 can take advantage of alternating fields to double vertical resolution. So we can have potentially a 320x480 interlaced 2-bit color screen. At least if I understand what has been done thus far correctly. I know the 160 modes can be doubled. It seems to me that rather than double the vertical resolution of the 320 mode, the luminance possibilities could be doubled. I assume DLIs can still only be set over a full field of a given mode so two successive lines of a 480 mode would share the DLI. What if we treat each 1x2 "cell" as one pixel? This object would have four states: both on, both off, top on only, bottom on only. So that is four color states per line if we treat such a screen as a 320x200 display. Additionally, each "cell" is also subject to artifacting rules on NTSC composite displays. It seems some nice pix could be made this way. (I could care less if the results aren't seen as "good" by C-64 fans.) This much is an obvious use of Rybag's technique. If DLIs can at least sometimes be set on just the individual field lines then even more interesting possibilities open up. Alas, I suspect it can't work that way though I'd love to be proven wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 ONLY the way that Atari does it is the best method. To me that's more overzealous A8 people than C64 people, refusing to budge an inch and at least say, "ok, in situation X C64 sprites are better". That's even been happening to a degree just over the last week or so which makes a refreshing change. I think some overly defensive A8 people have realised us "non A8" intruders aren't ALL here to say the A8 is inferior. Hell, I don't even own a C64 but I just bought a 65XE to test code on but I'll still argue in favour of the C64 if A8 people are seemingly claiming their hardware is better just for the hell of it. I absolutely read you. I come from the other end - years of "hatred" (strong word, not for real) for the C64 (and Commodore stuff in general) and now that 8-bit systems are relics (etc etc) I've come to APPRECIATE how similar the C64 *IS* to A8....in the year 2009. If I run into some games that are better than the A8 counterpart, or - what's more - 8-bit games that *never* saw the light of day on A8 - I'm perfectly pleased! The fact that I can now run SD cards and can claim to have never having owned the DOGSHIT that was purported to be 1541 - all the while reaping the strengths of the C64 platform (thank-you, 1541 Ultimate) brought me into the C= camp. I love all this 8-bit stuff. I even got a Vic-20 since the "Mega-cart" came out, and it's up there in my favorite retro systems....I love it, much as I appreciate the C64 now. I just don't get this "us vs. them" mentality as it isn't 1984 anymore. I should think that 8-bit enthusiasts should have much appreciation to share...particularly in 2009. It seems, however, that some can't move on....and can only make themselves feel better by trashing the opposite brand......AS IF (1) they had anything to do with it (or anything) and (2) these companies were still in business!!! HA HA! They're not, YOU (Not you Pete, just "you" in general) didn't invent a damn thing, so relax and each to his own! It's really easy to understand brand loyalty! It like football teams or cars. Mine is great and yours sucks till the day we die! Fan ism is all around us everyday. People love to fight and argue. It's just the way the majority of people are. My example would be I would never own, drive or ride in a japanese car OR I really dislike Ohio state football and that crappy university.(I attended for a time I know) So I have fun irritating the crazies here in Columbus Ohio( I graduated from University of South Florida) To be honest South Florida Bulls don't play football any better than Ohio Buckeyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 35 - FOOTBALLER OF THE YEAR The C64 version has better music.... Not really. I remember loading the game on the A8 just to listen to the tune. It has something really .... call it a "definition" You are wrong, listen to this music on C64 and you will hear the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Wow! C64 sure has come far by 1989! Here is the high quality "Hard Drivin" for c64,circa 1989!Domark a UK company no less. I think Atari 2600 could do better! WOW!! This really shows off the POWER that is the C64. C64 :!: shows it's seperiority :!: AGAIN!!! superiority,helps to spell correctly... inferiority maybe. I think it was a joke. He was imitating Rockford who puts up thousand emotion icons for every sentence he writes. Clearly, everyone prefers beautiful games (w/more colors/shades) and variety then same dull looking colors. WOW ! As always atariksi knows who thinks what Man, you frighten me more and more every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, i know it's a UK magazine... i've been writing for them since issue 51, it's sort of hard to avoid noticing after about eighteen months. =-) Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... but if you are one of the few knowledgeable contributors to RG, glad to hear it. Well, if TMR is "unknowledgeable", then frenchman got lost somewhere in the way between the stage of embryo and suckling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 An Italian singer (leader of group Bluvertigo) in the September 2009 issue of Vanity Fair. Notice the shirt. He looks a bit gayish to me, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Today another classic copyrighted by Atari !!! as always especially for number 63 36 - GAUNTLET C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better graphics, handling, more colours and plays smoothly. The Atari version is anemically slow and it has limited number of colours (all monsters, chests etc. are always in the same colour as the background ). C64 defeats Atari again. BTW, It's really amusing how an Atari game looks and plays better on C64. ATARI ATARI ATARI Hey atarian63, what happened this time ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 As you've been repeatedly told, that "logic" simply doesn't work; RoF was based around the A8 hardware and runs in half the vertical resolution of the C64; yes the C64 is slower, but that is in part because it's also dealing with twice the screen data compared to the A8 so the relative speeds of the two have precisely sod all bearing on anything else and it's getting close to not even comparing like for like. So what? The Atari has a co-processor that is helping to fill up the screen. Should we get ashamed by this fact? C64 users should get ashamed by the fact that every calculated movement needs some goggles to view them on a TV set. You're not actually talking about porting Hard Drivin' because you've started wandering off into fantasy land about rendering in different, significantly lower resolutions (good luck on converting it, by the way...) and that'd be a substantially different game so it's not comparable. Rof ... Hard Drivin' ... the calculations get multiple times faster on the A8 easily, if you want to have a realiable screen size. Have a look at the "Shrine" demo. 'nuff writtten.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Today another classic copyrighted by Atari !!! as always especially for number 63 36 - GAUNTLET C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better graphics, handling, more colours and plays smoothly. The Atari version is anemically slow and it has limited number of colours (all monsters, chests etc. are always in the same colour as the background ). C64 defeats Atari again. BTW, It's really amusing how an Atari game looks and plays better on C64. ATARI ATARI ATARI Hey atarian63, what happened this time ? Gauntlet is not only a crap game on the A8. It is a misfit of A8 hardware using 1st degree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 An Italian singer (leader of group Bluvertigo) in the September 2009 issue of Vanity Fair. Notice the shirt. He looks a bit gayish to me, that's all. Yep, second that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, i know it's a UK magazine... i've been writing for them since issue 51, it's sort of hard to avoid noticing after about eighteen months. =-) Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... but if you are one of the few knowledgeable contributors to RG, glad to hear it. Well, if TMR is "unknowledgeable", then frenchman got lost somewhere in the way between the stage of embryo and suckling. ...and outsmarts you by a long shot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 35 - FOOTBALLER OF THE YEAR The C64 version has better music.... Not really. I remember loading the game on the A8 just to listen to the tune. It has something really .... call it a "definition" You are wrong, listen to this music on C64 and you will hear the difference. The frequency range is wider on the SID, but the music is better on the POKEY. No doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) actually, wasn't A8 Gauntlet written by Gremlin, UK? Edited October 6, 2009 by frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 An Italian singer (leader of group Bluvertigo) in the September 2009 issue of Vanity Fair. Notice the shirt. He looks a bit gayish to me, that's all. His last girlfriend: http://www.dgmag.it/foto/maddalena-corvaglia-11212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 His last girlfriend: http://www.dgmag.it/foto/maddalena-corvaglia-11212 WARNING - THE ABOVE LINK IS NOT SAFE FOR WORK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, i know it's a UK magazine... i've been writing for them since issue 51, it's sort of hard to avoid noticing after about eighteen months. =-) Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... but if you are one of the few knowledgeable contributors to RG, glad to hear it. Well, if TMR is "unknowledgeable", then frenchman got lost somewhere in the way between the stage of embryo and suckling. ...and outsmarts you by a long shot Yeaaah, teach me again about "digitalize" ROTFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, i know it's a UK magazine... i've been writing for them since issue 51, it's sort of hard to avoid noticing after about eighteen months. =-) Yes, I know that there are some really unknowledgeable people working for that mag And you have no idea if i'm "really unknowledgeable", Well judging by some of your replies so far..... but if you are one of the few knowledgeable contributors to RG, glad to hear it. Well, if TMR is "unknowledgeable", then frenchman got lost somewhere in the way between the stage of embryo and suckling. ...and outsmarts you by a long shot Yeaaah, teach me again about "digitalize" ROTFL If you still have trouble spelling, can't help you man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 His last girlfriend:http://www.dgmag.it/...corvaglia-11212 Gays have many Girlfriends . Just like girls have girlfriends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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